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tapirmusic

'Spiritual' people higher risk mental problem

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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/study-people-who-are-spiritual-but-not-religious-are-more-vulnerable-to-mental-disorder/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9774259/Spiritual-people-at-higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems.html

"They are more likely to suffer from a range of mental health problems than either the conventionally religious or those who are agnostic or atheists, found researchers at University College London.

They are more disposed towards anxiety disorders, phobias and neuroses, have eating disorders and drug problems.

In addition, they are more likely than others to be taking medication for mental health problems.

Professor Michael King, from University College London, and his fellow researchers wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry: "Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual."

The study was based on a survey of 7,403 randomly selected men and women in England who were questioned about their spiritual and religious beliefs, and mental state."

What do you think?

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Since most of my religious friends are on anti depressants with marital issues and numerous health issues stemming from stress ,,and my spiritual friends are drug free and in healthy relationships ,with no hospitalizations under their belt ........best guess,the guy running the study is religious and in a failing marriage ,and on psych meds. Probably has high blood pressure too .

Lol

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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/study-people-who-are-spiritual-but-not-religious-are-more-vulnerable-to-mental-disorder/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9774259/Spiritual-people-at-higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems.html

"They are more likely to suffer from a range of mental health problems than either the conventionally religious or those who are agnostic or atheists, found researchers at University College London.

They are more disposed towards anxiety disorders, phobias and neuroses, have eating disorders and drug problems.

In addition, they are more likely than others to be taking medication for mental health problems.

Professor Michael King, from University College London, and his fellow researchers wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry: "Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual."

The study was based on a survey of 7,403 randomly selected men and women in England who were questioned about their spiritual and religious beliefs, and mental state."

What do you think?

Simple. People who have more problems tend to turn to religion a bit more. The old "no atheists in a foxhole effect." I'm not surprised at all.

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People with problems do tend to turn to religion more than they do atheism. I know people that had mental and/or physical, cancer, that became religious because I think they felt they would be cured. I guess any hope is better than none at all.

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The link between non-religious spirituality and higher risk of mental disorders sounds interesting, but it does not mean spiritual people are mentally ill at all. Please explain how come some extremely religious people like those members of Al-Qaeda are told they will be rewarded 70-72 virgins in heaven just for blowing up a building, indicate their serious psychological deviancy when it comes to political and religious affairs in the world stage.

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The link between non-religious spirituality and higher risk of mental disorders sounds interesting, but it does not mean spiritual people are mentally ill at all. Please explain how come some extremely religious people like those members of Al-Qaeda are told they will be rewarded 70-72 virgins in heaven just for blowing up a building, indicate their serious psychological deviancy when it comes to political and religious affairs in the world stage.

Pssssttt ...can we say westboro baptist church .God makes them do eeevvverrryyytthhing...

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Is this... intended to come as a surprise somehow?

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http://www.theblaze....ental-disorder/

http://www.telegraph...h-problems.html

"They are more likely to suffer from a range of mental health problems than either the conventionally religious or those who are agnostic or atheists, found researchers at University College London.

They are more disposed towards anxiety disorders, phobias and neuroses, have eating disorders and drug problems.

In addition, they are more likely than others to be taking medication for mental health problems.

Professor Michael King, from University College London, and his fellow researchers wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry: "Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual."

The study was based on a survey of 7,403 randomly selected men and women in England who were questioned about their spiritual and religious beliefs, and mental state."

What do you think?

Is this guy Professor something or another still pis-sed that a 15 years old chick hearing voices kicked the Brits out of Orleans? (I'm referring to Johanne of Arc of course)

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Posted (edited)

religious people are often in denial of the things they preach against. For instance, the priest that molests young boys, the minister that condemns homosexuals but has a secret same sex loverand the proponent of charity that steals from the poor.

The louder the argument, the more they have to hide/run from.

Are non-believers more depressed? Faced with the reality of the state of the world, maybe it would seem so but I think depression is equally distributed amongst believers and nonbelievers alike. .But since religious people tend to congregate together they me feel a bit more support thus a alleviating some of the symptoms of depression. also they tend to give up their problems to their higher power which relieves them of responsibility.

Edited by Lava_Lady
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In other words. Seeing the other side of things is risky. You go to far and it interferes with your life then it leads to problems.

Edited by Jinxdom
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In other words. Seeing the other side of things is risky. You go to far and it interferes with your life then it leads to problems.

Some spiritual disciplines have been referred to as "the path of the razors edge" for just this reason. The need to remain functioning and logical in the material world is an important first grounding step when approaching the esoteric or spiritual sides of life.

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Simple. People who have more problems tend to turn to religion a bit more. The old "no atheists in a foxhole effect." I'm not surprised at all.

You didn't read or fully understand the article, it specifically stated those who are religious are the least likely to have problems, even less than those who are secular or spiritual (with no religious affiliation).

It is those who are spiritual (with no religious affiliation) who are likely to have the most issues according to this article.

That makes sense because those who claim to be spiritual yet not religious most likely have a weak social network since they are not religious it also means they are less likely to be part of a group such as a church. Social isolation and weak social bonds all impact health.

Those who are secular most likely are part of groups. When you are spiritual, too spiritual, it can make you a loner.

Also the "no atheists in foxholes" adage was proven wrong, there was an article a while back posted here, studies showed atheists are likely to hold on to their beliefs even if death is imminent.

Edited by I believe you

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Also the "no atheists in foxholes" adage was proven wrong, there was an article a while back posted here, studies showed atheists are likely to hold on to their beliefs even if death is imminent.

Now that I can identify with! As far as I can remember, my prayers during a 'contact', were directed almost exclusively toward the lads giving me covering fire until I managed to get my rosy-red butt to relative safety!

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You didn't read or fully understand the article, it specifically stated those who are religious are the least likely to have problems, even less than those who are secular or spiritual (with no religious affiliation).

It is those who are spiritual (with no religious affiliation) who are likely to have the most issues according to this article.

That makes sense because those who claim to be spiritual yet not religious most likely have a weak social network since they are not religious it also means they are less likely to be part of a group such as a church. Social isolation and weak social bonds all impact health.

Those who are secular most likely are part of groups. When you are spiritual, too spiritual, it can make you a loner.

Also the "no atheists in foxholes" adage was proven wrong, there was an article a while back posted here, studies showed atheists are likely to hold on to their beliefs even if death is imminent.

Sorry yes. I was just going off this quote from the op.

""Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual."

Seemed like a summery to me. But it's worded funny or amibguouse or something. It's got to many negatives in it which confuses the sentence. "worse", "neither" and "nor" all referring to "spiritual".

Upon actually reading the articles I see what you mean. That quote is worded funny.

I still say that those with problems will turn to spiritual inclinations . The foxhole is a concept not an absolute. Quite obviously those with entrenched beliefs will hold them, but those on the margins will likely cross over.

Now. The foxhole adage. What proof. Keep hearing this but I have never seen an offering of proof. Not that I think it's an absolute truth. But the main theme of the adage is that in dangerous life threatening situations people tend to turn to spiritual inclinations a lot easier. The atheist with a catholic upbringing might just sign the cross just incase. I'm sure it has happened many times.

In regards to the article. I would not argue this. I see it aswell. Many people with problems seek spirituality, the problem of course is that those that cannot accept a religion do not get the a "answer" that they are seeking, and the network of support that religion is usefull for. Then ontop of the matter religions in a way will shun them. I absolutely cannot express my spiritual beliefs and practices in my community otherwise be labeled.

I would consider it less the creation of the person, but more a cause of the exclusivity usually created by religions themselves. But that's just a guess.

People that are seekers tend to be a bit more turbulent and come from a wider verity of back grounds than those that live the comfy life of acceptance.

Edited by Seeker79

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Most people have some sort of religion, so it figures that many would have serious mental issues. Many atheist that I know are bi-polar, it means nothing.

doug

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This is disappointingly poor survey design. I really wouldn't base anything important on these "results." The original paper is not available for free (but many people here may be able to get it from school or public libraries, etc.) The abstract is free for all, and it is here:

http://bjp.rcpsych.o...2/1/68.abstract

The conclusion as reported in the abstract is

People who have a spiritual understanding of life in the absence of a religious framework are vulnerable to mental disorder.

One serious flaw in this report is the absence of any substantive definition of a "spiritual understanding of life" available to the people who are being asked whether they have one.

The subjects were participants in the (adult England 2007) National Psychiatric Morbidity Study. That report is available here:

http://www.ic.nhs.uk...ng-2007-apx.pdf

On page 124-125 of the report (physical page 98 of the pdf file), we can see how the information about religion and spirituality were elicited. Not very well.

First there is an affiliation question: "Do you have a specific religion?" and if yes, then. of course, "Which religion is that?"

Then the interviewee is told what the survey means by religion. It appears to relate to the previous question, about a "specific" religion, by enumerating religion-specific names for a place of worship: temple, mosque, church or synagogue, as places where a religious person goes.

"Spiritual" is never defined. Spiritual "beliefs or expereinces" are mentioned as possibly occuring separately from a religion, but not necessarily unavailable from religion, although it seems that an alternative to religion is being presented. Then, armed with this sketchy information regarding what the interviewer is talking about, the respondent is asked about a "religious or spiritual understanding" of their life.

By 'religion', we mean the actual practice of a faith, e.g. going to a temple, mosque, church or synagogue. Some people do not follow a religion but do have spiritual beliefs or experiences. Some people make sense of their lives without any religious or spiritual beliefs. Would you say that you have a religious or a spiritual understanding of your life?

Possible answers are religious, spritual or neither, including combinations of those.

The remaining questions on this point, asked only of those who answer religious or spiritual in their understanding of life, are to rate how "strongly" they hold their "view," on a scale from 0 to 10; the importance of the "practice" of the "belief" also on a 0 - 10 scale, and finally, how often the person attends services or prayer meetings, from never through at least once a week.

The examples in the second follow-up question of "practice" are private meditation and religious services.

How important to you is the practice of your belief (e.g. private meditation, religious services) in your day-to-day life? Please look at this card and tell me the number that best describes your view, from 0 'not necessary' through to 10 'essential'

Wait a minute. This is incoherent. Religion was distinguished from spirituality on the basis of "actual practice" exemplified by physically visiting any common place of worship. Now, it turns out that "practice" includes both religious services and also private meditation.

Example I, eight bits, practice private meditation. I almost never visit places of worship, especially not for services. Because I "practice," but not (apparently) actually practice, I am "spiritual" but not "religious." Or am I? I wasn't asked about practice, even though that was as much as a definition as I got, rather I was asked about my understanding of my life. Well, I understand my "life" to be my current coporeal presence in time and space - not religious and not spiritual but physical. And may it remain so for a good long time yet to come.

So, I am spiritual, based on my beliefs and experiences, and maybe non-specifically religious depending on how much regular meditation counts as practice after all, but I am neither according to the question that is actually asked.

In the same way that we wonder whether IQ measures intelligence or just skill at taking IQ tests, this questionnaire seems to test not for religion or spirituality, but rather for ESP, reading the survey designer's mind. I am unsurpised that people who are "spiritual but not religious" are more likely to have mental health issues - just figuring out whether that is the correct category is enough to drive someone crazy.

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Jesus came for the sick not the well. I personally would be crazy if I didnt have god in my life. I think about this topic a lot and was thinking of starting a thread on it as well..

Here is a link from the book 'spiritual gift of madness'. http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/05/mad-pride-and-spiritual-community-thoughts-on-the-spiritual-gift-of-madness/

This is not a trait for religious only, but also spiritual ... our faith helps us cope and drives us to want to heal others..

I read a part of the book it says the mad are very sensitve and are reacting to an insane world.... becoming spiritual and developing a relationship with god (whatever that looks like for the individual) is an evolutionary process to this spiritually gifted person. In many cultures the shaman etc... had to go through this process of getting vety sick before they got the full powers of their gifts...

Thanks for posting this..

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Most people have some sort of religion, so it figures that many would have serious mental issues. Many atheist that I know are bi-polar, it means nothing.

doug

I know some athiest bipolors too, and I do think God could help...

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Spirituality is similar to philosophy a way to get rid of suffering. Those who seek to get rid of suffering may be the ones who are actually suffering.

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Spirituality is similar to philosophy a way to get rid of suffering. Those who seek to get rid of suffering may be the ones who are actually suffering.

Very wise, simple and to heart of the matter. It is my inner fragmentation and seeking to heal that allows me to delve deeply into God, for it is in God's observing my inner chaos that allows it to come together, well it is slowly coming together. If an atheist, I am not sure I would be able to do that, since there would nothing inside but my fragmentaion and perhaps with only drugs, perscription or otherwise to deal with it. My relationship with God, my experience of grace allows me to not fear what is inside, but to love myself. Love does heal, knowing that we are loved by God is not escape but a goad to seek deeper understand of self, others and to seek to love....which is not easy by any means. The death to self is hard.

peace

mark

Edited by markdohle

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Jesus came for the sick not the well. I personally would be crazy if I didnt have god in my life. I think about this topic a lot and was thinking of starting a thread on it as well..

Here is a link from the book 'spiritual gift of madness'. http://www.madinamer...ift-of-madness/

This is not a trait for religious only, but also spiritual ... our faith helps us cope and drives us to want to heal others..

I read a part of the book it says the mad are very sensitve and are reacting to an insane world.... becoming spiritual and developing a relationship with god (whatever that looks like for the individual) is an evolutionary process to this spiritually gifted person. In many cultures the shaman etc... had to go through this process of getting vety sick before they got the full powers of their gifts...

Thanks for posting this..

Very powerful comment my friend, will look into the book.

peace

mark

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It all comes down to what one consider's mentally ill. If there is discovered a true physiological deviance in the brain of most who claim to be 'spiritual' people, then one could argue it as most having a truly credible mental illness. However if it is purely psychological, then the debate becomes much more complex. That is when one starts asking the definition of "mentaly ill" the exactly precise parameters of which are currently still up to debate today.

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I could also swing it as a quote about boundaries. Spiritual people have a tendency to look a boundaries(i.e rules and or laws) a little too loose or a little much. Like you put all your faith in the 10 commandments but totally miss out the point of that whole Moses breaking the stone tablets, you have issues. (Ever hear of the saying nothing is set in stone right?)

if you think those rules don't apply for anything you have issues. The balanced person would believe that you follow the laws but knows there might be a time when an exception is actually possible.

This isn't strictly a Spiritual thing though it could happen to people who are straight up atheists(Spiritually people don't have a monopoly on crazy :) ) as well. It just happens that spiritual people believe in more sets of rules then just one, so when the lines get crossed in a bad way, problems happen, then people start tossing around words like mentally ill.

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I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we’re being run by maniacs for maniacal ends. I think they’re all insane. But I am liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That’s what is insane about it. John Lennon. This must be quote from one of those mentally ill people, lol.

Edited by sutemi
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Very wise, simple and to heart of the matter. It is my inner fragmentation and seeking to heal that allows me to delve deeply into God, for it is in God's observing my inner chaos that allows it to come together, well it is slowly coming together. If an atheist, I am not sure I would be able to do that, since there would nothing inside but my fragmentaion and perhaps with only drugs, perscription or otherwise to deal with it. My relationship with God, my experience of grace allows me to not fear what is inside, but to love myself. Love does heal, knowing that we are loved by God is not escape but a goad to seek deeper understand of self, others and to seek to love....which is not easy by any means. The death to self is hard.

peace

mark

You mention that if you were an atheist, that you don't know, maybe prescribed meds would work? Did you mention this in the vain that prescription medication and mental health practice in general are a weak alterntive to God?

Many within some parts of Christian culture believe that you can turn to God for everything including mental health and that you don't really need to see a psychologist or some other qualified medical personnel.

If you as a believer believe that God is all encompassing and great then God's mercy extends to all including atheists. You would believe that God has sent the counsellor, the therapists, the general practitioner, and even the pharmacists to help others. Just as much as he sent others in your life to help such as friends and family maybe. Sometimes God will send someone who does not even believe in God to help you and others.

I know some athiest bipolors too, and I do think God could help...

Help to the level that you not need rely on anything else but God?

There was a man who once believed like this. Then there was a flood. The water began rising.

People would come on boats, they would say to get in, that the water is rising.

He would say that it was OK, God was going to help him.

The water got higher, more people came in boats, the man refused to get in even as he was on his roof.

The last boat came and he refused again, they left, he drowned.

In Heaven the man asked why God did not come to help him.

God told him, I sent several boats to come rescue you.

Edited by I believe you

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