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tapirmusic

'Spiritual' people higher risk mental problem

39 posts in this topic

You mention that if you were an atheist, that you don't know, maybe prescribed meds would work? Did you mention this in the vain that prescription medication and mental health practice in general are a weak alterntive to God?

Many within some parts of Christian culture believe that you can turn to God for everything including mental health and that you don't really need to see a psychologist or some other qualified medical personnel.

If you as a believer believe that God is all encompassing and great then God's mercy extends to all including atheists. You would believe that God has sent the counsellor, the therapists, the general practitioner, and even the pharmacists to help others. Just as much as he sent others in your life to help such as friends and family maybe. Sometimes God will send someone who does not even believe in God to help you and others.

Help to the level that you not need rely on anything else but God?

There was a man who once believed like this. Then there was a flood. The water began rising.

People would come on boats, they would say to get in, that the water is rising.

He would say that it was OK, God was going to help him.

The water got higher, more people came in boats, the man refused to get in even as he was on his roof.

The last boat came and he refused again, they left, he drowned.

In Heaven the man asked why God did not come to help him.

God told him, I sent several boats to come rescue you.

I am in the health field, I am all for meds if it helps; christian or not, I just don't need them. I was talking about the inner fortifude to deal with what one finds there, my faith helps me to do that.

Peace

mark

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You mention that if you were an atheist, that you don't know, maybe prescribed meds would work? Did you mention this in the vain that prescription medication and mental health practice in general are a weak alterntive to God?

Many within some parts of Christian culture believe that you can turn to God for everything including mental health and that you don't really need to see a psychologist or some other qualified medical personnel.

If you as a believer believe that God is all encompassing and great then God's mercy extends to all including atheists. You would believe that God has sent the counsellor, the therapists, the general practitioner, and even the pharmacists to help others. Just as much as he sent others in your life to help such as friends and family maybe. Sometimes God will send someone who does not even believe in God to help you and others.

Help to the level that you not need rely on anything else but God?

There was a man who once believed like this. Then there was a flood. The water began rising.

People would come on boats, they would say to get in, that the water is rising.

He would say that it was OK, God was going to help him.

The water got higher, more people came in boats, the man refused to get in even as he was on his roof.

The last boat came and he refused again, they left, he drowned.

In Heaven the man asked why God did not come to help him.

God told him, I sent several boats to come rescue you.

I think that each case involving "mental disorders" are different, that the client should be involved in the decision making and that yes, in many circumstances there can be a cure without medication... This involves spiritual and mental work and this is what God specializes in. I agree with all what you have said above as well, but I do not put the power of medication or the knowledge of any doctor over the ability of God, life is a process and we have weigh through these things. We have to see if we agree with the doctor, we have to try spiritual coping skills, we have to redesign our behaviors that add to what's happening to us mentally, we have to have proper nutrition, we have to pay attention to how medication is effecting us, we have to research and find out new and cutting edge strategies, we have to stay on the path to success, and that is staying in healthy mental environments, that is what having a relationship with god is all about.

Earlier when I said I know atheist with bipolar that I thought could benefit from knowing god, yes I did mean without medication, but I know not all situations are the same.....

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Some spiritual disciplines have been referred to as "the path of the razors edge" for just this reason. The need to remain functioning and logical in the material world is an important first grounding step when approaching the esoteric or spiritual sides of life.

Yes, In some cases-- in some religions it is the way to identify with the world and a fantasy realm is the reality. Coming out of religious conditioning, one has to acclimate to reality-- one has to understand that there is a difference between fantasy and reality, one would have to start with setting boundaries it is in the setting of personal boundaries one can have an identity of their own. I do think during this transition phase it would not be unusual to rely on substances to cope with the starkness of reality.

Edited by Sherapy

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Menatlly ill people may get sad about said illness. If it hinders them socially they may feel alone...but not if they have someone or soemthing that is celestial watching over them. Like a cosmic babysitter.

Or they really just feel something...

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Menatlly ill people may get sad about said illness. If it hinders them socially they may feel alone...but not if they have someone or soemthing that is celestial watching over them. Like a cosmic babysitter.

Or they really just feel something...

In my experience, I would say it is the fantasy that has been created that brings comfort, or is the place one goes to for comfort. it is automatic pilot and part of the brainwashing. The way one copes is to live in a fantasy world of their making and that which cannot be dealt with gets repressed or projected or one uses drugs to completely blot out the unpleasant aspects of reality.

Edited by Sherapy

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In my experience, I would say it is the fantasy that has been created that brings comfort, or is the place one goes to for comfort. it is automatic pilot and part of the brainwashing. The way one copes is to live in a fantasy world of their making and that which cannot be dealt with gets repressed or projected or one uses drugs to completely blot out the unpleasant aspects of reality.

That would explain a lot, such as turning to alcohol after a break-up or whatever - repression.

The god idea is there to make poeple feel good and safe and exists mainly because of the fear of the unknown i.e Death. I have no problem with that myself, but as Hitchens once said "They can play with their toys all they like, but don't try and make me play with the toys; and don't make my children play with the toys."

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That would explain a lot, such as turning to alcohol after a break-up or whatever - repression.

The god idea is there to make poeple feel good and safe and exists mainly because of the fear of the unknown i.e Death. I have no problem with that myself, but as Hitchens once said "They can play with their toys all they like, but don't try and make me play with the toys; and don't make my children play with the toys."

I think the fear is more a fear of reality, specifically the unpleasant aspects of life ( a coping mechanism) I would say in some religious expressions it is taught that it is acceptable to create a fantasy to cope (transference in a loose sense) and think it is reality and then adopt this as a way of life. It is definitely a way some people have been taught to experience religion. I think Hitchen's had valid points and was pushing for keeping it real under no uncertain terms (which would be the eventual goal) but keeping it real is an arduous terrifying process for one who is coming out of fantasy acclimating to reality and someone is this situation requires/needs a lot of patience,support,compassion, and empathy and the process can take years.

Edited by Sherapy
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Menatlly ill people may get sad about said illness. If it hinders them socially they may feel alone...but not if they have someone or soemthing that is celestial watching over them. Like a cosmic babysitter.

Or they really just feel something...

I want to add one more thing, I do think that religion can be be taught and used in a productive way e.g. it could be applied in a way that encourages positive/ active coping strategies (which are behaviors that help reduce the stress in our lives in growth producing ways.) Things such as: relaxation, exercise, and strong support networks are examples of positive coping strategies.

I have seen religion taught/used in this way too-- as well as destructively. In fact, what one would really be learning in effect is how to apply their spirituality/religion in ways that were positive/realistic and growth producing. It wouldn't be taken away from someone if they found it of value --it would just be transformed into a positive force.

Edited by Sherapy
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That university statistics is bullcrap, they haven't had enough subjects to come to that conclusion. Religious people are actually content and don't fear death and believe in not harming others. If they knew true religious people they would not say bad mental things about them they are mentally fit and in the right mental mindframe compared to non-religious people.

Religious people have inner happiness, tranquility.

Edited by ozman

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‘It's no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society' krishnamurti

'The whole problem with the world, is that fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts' Bertrand Russell

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You didn't read or fully understand the article, it specifically stated those who are religious are the least likely to have problems, even less than those who are secular or spiritual (with no religious affiliation).
I work around a high percentage of self-claimed religious people and believe me the ones I know have plenty of problems! :w00t:
It is those who are spiritual (with no religious affiliation) who are likely to have the most issues according to this article.
I am a spiritual person and the only issue I have is watching my back so I don't get stabbed by some religious co-worker. :passifier: (True story!)
That makes sense because those who claim to be spiritual yet not religious most likely have a weak social network since they are not religious it also means they are less likely to be part of a group such as a church. Social isolation and weak social bonds all impact health.
Don't believe it! Social isolation = peace of mind and relaxation! :yes:
Those who are secular most likely are part of groups. When you are spiritual, too spiritual, it can make you a loner.
That's supposed to be bad? B)

Also the "no atheists in foxholes" adage was proven wrong, there was an article a while back posted here, studies showed atheists are likely to hold on to their beliefs even if death is imminent.

Which shows who has the stronger minds! :whistle: Edited by Time Traveler

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I am a spiritual person and the only issue I have is watching my back so I don't get stabbed by some religious co-worker. :passifier: (True story!)

Don't believe it! Social isolation = peace of mind and relaxation! :yes:

That's supposed to be bad? B)

Also the "no atheists in foxholes" adage was proven wrong, there was an article a while back posted here, studies showed atheists are likely to hold on to their beliefs even if death is imminent.

Which shows who has the stronger minds! :whistle:

The way you go on about coworkers doesn't strike me as very spritiual especially the use of those hideous yellow emoticons in relation to your thoughts on them.

Social isolation carries health risks. You don't have to believe it. Everyone requires "alone" time but once someone feels "lonely" it carries certain risks. I don't believe you are correctly using the term "social isolation" when you claim it brings you peace of mind and relaxation. Maybe "downtime" all alone does that for you, it does it for everyone else too, but that is not "social isolation".

So yes, being a loner is very bad. Humans evolved as a group animal, not in isolation.

If you believe you are above all this because you have a "stronger mind" and they don't, then you simply believe that, but I am rather skeptical.

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The article is merely another attack on those of us who decline to affiliate themselves with any religion, organized or not.

The term spiritual and religious have unfortunately become synonymous when it clearly is not.

Religious people are actually content and don't fear death and believe in not harming others.

Many non-religious people are the same exact way too. Religion has nothing to do with it.

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I grew up in a loving family, however never really felt connected to reality - I would often day dream, or want to distract myself from the world in order to just not think about it.

Then I turned 17 - Started going out, doing the normal 17yr old stuff, drinking, drugs, Sex... just to aviod the world...

a year later, I was a drugy, addicted to all sorts of drugs, Meth and Cocaine mostly.

2 years of that life, and then one moment happended in my life I will never forget. I took a VERY STRONG dose of Mushrooms. During my expereince, I meet with a spirit which I call the Universal Consiousness. From that Moment I was heal, spiritually, emotionally, and physically.

I was under the influcence of mind altering drugs granted - However from that day forth, without even thinking about it, I never touched meth or coke again.

To me the above experience was real. more real than I EVER felt in life.... how can something seem more real than life itself?

I have a new outlook on life, everyone and thing is special and beautiful...

Spirituallity made me Sane...... Not the other way Round.

(Mods, the reference of drugs, is only used for the purpose of the story, I do not condone them. If you have been in a simular situation to me, I ask to refer to medical professionals. Do not take the route I did as I am lucky it didnt lead to death)

Kind Regards,

Me :)

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