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Ehrman Pagels 1

Is there more to John 19:26, 19:27 and 19:30?

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ASIDE 101:

If you were part of Jesus' relatives (with knowledge of his otherworldly nature due to his miraculous works) and in your sane mind, wouldn't you conceal his otherworldly nature to protect him from the jealous, madden crowd since he's a good, loving man (to say the least), and a man of God, and some even called him, "Rabbi," (including the fact that he's part of your "family" and you're Jewish, let's not forget)?

I highly doubt it if they would even lay a finger on Jesus. It's a small town and he was surrounded by his "family." Keep in mind, it's Jesus' turf, not downtown Los Angeles or Jerusalem -- knock, knock?

“He is out of his mind...(for God).” Again, it's a matter of interpretation. Not every dialo-gue said was written in the Book, surely? Again, thank God for The Reformation.

Plus, where is the exclamation point in Mark 3:21? (to nitpick) To put my mind in an actor's position, I could easily say that in a number of ways.

I know a perfect book when I read one -- I am a published Hollywood writer, after all...and a prodigy, as icing on the cake.

Edited by braveone2u

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John 19:26

"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he said unto his mother, 'Woman, behold your son!'"

John 19:27

"Then said he to the disciple, 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home."

Hi,

Please read John 19:26 and John 19:27.

Is there more to this than what's being conveyed on the surface?

Before answering the first question, was it a Jewish tradition to adopt out your mother before you die? With this in mind, think of the gravity of adopting out your own beloved mother, the woman who brought you into this world. Surely, a simple request would've done it, don't you think?

John 19:30

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit."

And last, what was the "it" when Jesus said, "It is finished"? Would love to read your replies.

Peace and blessed 2013 to all.

Paul

I can't answer your first question with certainty, though it makes sense.

For your second, its likely that Jesus was quoting Scripture. One possibility would be this:

""Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place." (Daniel 9:24 ESV)

Jesus had finished transgression, put an end to sin, atoned for iniquity, brought in everlasting righteousness (kingdom of God), fulfilled all that was prophesied about Himself, and anointed His body as the holy place (which He rebuilt in three days.)

All this occurred at the cross and during His resurrection. Likely, since John wrote from a very theological position, focusing highly on the regeneration of the believer's soul, that "It is finished" had something to do with that.

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Hi Bluefinger,

Please keep in mind that I'm not discounting your position, and as a Christian, I believe Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24 ESV, but I think this particular situation is of an intimate nature. It's more like talking to himself, like a closing soliloquy. On the hand, this is just my take on this.

Peace.

Paul

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Hi Jor-el,

[Very well, that is your view but consider the fact that it is incorrect interpretational procedure.] Listen to what you're saying. How can you expect me to take you seriously?

[Does his family state or not that Jesus is "out of his mind"?] I've already given you my answer to that. I guess you didn't get the Voila Feeling.

[Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law] That's a matter of enterpretation, for it is someone else's "theory," don't you find?? Thank God for The Protestant Reformation; otherwise, we would still be in the Inquisition period.

You always have to keep in mind that this is my theory, not yours, nor someone else's concoction. Again, you didn't get that Voila Feeling. "That's okay." Others did. Well, that's something for you to think about, n'est-ce pas?

Peace always,

Paul

I don't discount that you can get a voila feeling about scripture, any scripture. What I have learned though is that one also has to use the rules of textual interpretation when one is analysing a text. It doesn't matter whether its the bible or something else. Those rules areestablished so that we can get a common view that satisfies the text.

We call those established rules, Hermeneutics and more specifically the field of Exegesis.

As you stated, you are going by your own feeling of the text, whether your personal interpretation fits in with the established rules of interpretational procedure is something that you will have to decide upon further study.

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I don't discount that you can get a voila feeling about scripture, any scripture. What I have learned though is that one also has to use the rules of textual interpretation when one is analysing a text. It doesn't matter whether its the bible or something else. Those rules areestablished so that we can get a common view that satisfies the text.

We call those established rules, Hermeneutics and more specifically the field of Exegesis.

As you stated, you are going by your own feeling of the text, whether your personal interpretation fits in with the established rules of interpretational procedure is something that you will have to decide upon further study.

Hello Jor-el,

I totally understand what you're saying; however, I'm still going by my Voila Feeling. After all, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us, don't we?? In fact, this came from a dream, a vivid dream -- a sign for me to go back to Christianity. It's not just a dry, scholarly interpretation. Believe me, I've read your comments very intensely, but they don't hold up, I'm sorry to say; however, keep them coming.

Peace always,

Paul

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Hello Jor-el,

I totally understand what you're saying; however, I'm still going by my Voila Feeling. After all, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us, don't we?? In fact, this came from a dream, a vivid dream -- a sign for me to go back to Christianity. It's not just a dry, scholarly interpretation. Believe me, I've read your comments very intensely, but they don't hold up, I'm sorry to say; however, keep them coming.

Peace always,

Paul

Can the Holy Spirit contradict Scripture?

Yes he can...

Does the Holy Spirit actually do so?

Edited by Jor-el

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The Holy Spirit is not contradicting Scripture; however, who wrote those Scriptures down, the ones you presented to me?

["The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law "]

Edited by braveone2u

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Again, I take my theory, the one that I received which has changed my life completely...before your findings.

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I say "theory" because it's really up to the reader to get that Voila Feeling...or not. It's not a theory to me, but I'm only speaking for myself on this. It's up to the reader.

Edited by braveone2u

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Can the Holy Spirit contradict Scripture?

Yes he can...

I've already given you my answer. Read the above posts.

Peace.

Paul

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Hi Bluefinger,

Please keep in mind that I'm not discounting your position, and as a Christian, I believe Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24 ESV, but I think this particular situation is of an intimate nature. It's more like talking to himself, like a closing soliloquy. On the hand, this is just my take on this.

Peace.

Paul

I just keep coming back to this thread over and over again because every time I do I find something else wonderful that has a part of me going "TA DA! can you see and hear it now!"

It's had me looking again to all the things said on that cross and contemplating each one by one...he said "I thirst" which brings back all that was said about being thirsty, "come unto me"...who is "me" that is in you and them, even the animals know this "me"

It does say that no more will you teach everyone your brothers, sisters and neighbors saying "know the Lord! know the Lord!" because the least to the greatest shall know the Lord, a name that can never be cut off...the foundation that we all build upon...

I believe you have left us some great things to think on Paul...how could a witness standing by the cross know the mind and thoughts of the Lord enough so to write it down into a book... BEAUTIFUL! Absolutely beautiful and wondrous

In the old testament, the Jews did not evangelize, they were not told to go out and preach or teach anything, in fact they agreed to do exactly the opposite, "this book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth" then we have Jesus that said "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God"...

Jesus told them to preach the gospel (good news) but he did all things lawfully, if you can't let the law depart out your mouth (teach it unto another), but it says eat/read it then meditate on it day and night, what can you do then, the way we live will be what teaches, the example... If I say anything to another, let it be good news not just to the one speaking it, but to the hearer hearing it...I would rather edify than prophesy in season and out of season...When I feel unsure of myself in this of rather I can speak something that will lift and help build another up, I simply remember "Do unto to others, etc....

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Hi Ciss,

Thank you for the kind words and heartfelt comments. I'm very happy that you have experienced that "Ta Da!" moment. The interesting thing about this is it's writing itself. Somehow, it needs to be told. All I know is that this has changed my life. In fact, my last "edited post" came to me because I was at a loss about what to say to Jor-el, for I am not a Bible scholar...and then, I saw this (I must have missed reading this, or perhaps it was added later):

["The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law "]

"The Holy Spirit is not contradicting Scripture; however, who wrote those Scriptures down, the ones you presented to me?"

Have a wonderful weekend, Ciss. I'm off to the beach!

Paul

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The Holy Spirit is not contradicting Scripture; however, who wrote those Scriptures down, the ones you presented to me?

["The answer is given at the very beginning of the text as a heading, which is not part of the original text, but was added by the translators to summarize the text in question... Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law "]

No, that is not part of the original text, but I did put it there as well so that you can see that the interpretation is not limited to my opinion alone.

Again, I take my theory, the one that I received which has changed my life completely...before your findings.

And that is perfectly allright, God spoke to you through scripture, it changed your life and that is what scripture is really about. It gave you an insight that became pivotal to your renewed faith in God.

That has happened to me as well many times, those insights too became stepping stones that made me view the word of God as something more than simple writing in a dusty book. But even so, I have found over the years that what I started out with changed over time as I added more information to that experience. So much so that what I statarted out with is a mere shadow of what I see now.

So don't let the Voila Feeling be an assumption that you have the ultimate view on a specific scripture, in time that view will change as you learn more. Think of it as the 1st door that has opened, but the corridor still has many other doors for you to walk through, and each of those will change you, your experience, and perspective.

God Bless.

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Thank you for the heads-up, Jor-el. I do listen to you.

Your brother in Christ,

Paul

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