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markdohle

I am grateful for this sane place

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I am grateful for this sane place at unexplained

When I was in my late forties, I started having a kind of repetitive dream. Each dream was different, but the theme was the same and to this day I remember a few of them. I guess over the course of a couple of years I had perhaps five or six. Two stand out very clearly for me. In one dream I was sitting at my desk writing furiously, page after page essays on subjects I had never really written about much. The other dream, I was sitting in front of a computer, again, writing at a fast clip as if there was urgency to it. I was always bemused by these dreams since I actually hated writing and had no intention of doing so.

Then when I was 50, I discovered the internet, or let’s say I decided to teach myself to get on it and explore. I was amazed at all the information that was available on just about any subject and I guess for a while, for about one year I really got into reading as much as I could.

I also discovered discussion group on Yahoo and joined a few. Since I am interested in others belief systems I found a few groups that I felt a desire to join and discuss different ways at looking at the world. The first groups I joined were one that dealt with atheism. It was quite the wake up call for me. When I joined I was more often than not attacked just because I was a theist, and being a Christian, well let’s say it took some getting used to. I was impressed on these sites on how well people expressed themselves by their writing, from both sides. Both theist and atheist writing back and forth expressing their points of view, many in a respectful manner and also quite a number who just liked insulting and throw insults back and forth….it seemed enjoyable to most of them.

I decided to join in, but found it difficult to put down on paper the concepts that were swirling around in my head. A number of people on these forums helped me to learn how to slow down my mind and to deal with one thing, or thought at a time, instead of trying to put everything down at once. It was slow going, and I guess I am still learning, for I do tend to ramble, as I am doing now. Though I think that is what I am supposed to do, it seems to release some kind of inner urgency in me and I find that healing and centering.

I also joined other groups that many of my friends thought kind of strange, but for me it was just a way to learn about others and their beliefs. So I joined some Satanist discussion forums to see what they believed in. It was very interesting to say the least. Most of the groups I joined for awhile were mostly followers of Anton Lavey who wrote the book “The Satanic bible” in the 60’s. I found his followers much more interesting and way more intelligent than Anton. They were easy to communicate with once they believed that I was not there to attack or try to convert, but to simply try to figure out why and what they believed. It was an interesting journey. One thing I learned, they were atheist for the most part, and the ‘Satan” that they believed in was not the Christian one at all, at least as far as I could see. I did not agree of course with their beliefs, but both sides were able to communicate easily. Not sure they learned much from me, but I did get some insight into their beliefs. In actuality, I think many Satanist of the atheistic sort, or really closer to Ayn Rand than any other way of look at life out there.

I also joined some Wiccan groups, but found the ones I joined were for the most part still in a state of reaction against the Christian path and so I did not stay long, it was difficult to write anything without some kind of verbal explosion happening. So I decided to stop trying and leave them to their seeking and perhaps for some healing. I did study some Wiccan books in the 80’s and found them interesting to read. I like the focus on nature, healing, and even magic I believe. I learned to look at the tarot as a healing tool from reading some Wiccan books, which were quite deep in their understanding on how the intuitive mind works and not into the future aspect at all. . So for a few years I used the Tarot for healing. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and this I believe led me to writing, for the images of the tarot were a road map of my inner world and gave me the language to be able to write with.

Some beliefs are so different, that any real joining of forces may not be possible. Yet I have found that growing in understanding of others does take away simplistic notions of these paths, for each person within these groups is unique. I don’t like it when people make such sweeping statements about Christians and what they believe, so why would I think others would like that either about their beliefs. So it has been a slow journey and I am sure I will die before I even get past the beginning stages. I am grateful for a sane place that we have here in “unexplained phenomena”, well it is for the most part, in which I can express myself so freely without being attacked….well not too often. I don’t expect to always be understood, nor do I always understand the point that some here try to make, but that does not mean that I can’t try.

When two different beliefs systems come together, the worst can be brought out by both sides and both sides react in ways that often makes things worse. In the past I did this, it was slow for me to learn; now I just don’t bother. If someone gets insulting, I just let them, don’t agree and try to stay decent with them. All I have to do is to go back and see what was inside me when I did the very same thing……we are all seekers, I am a Christian, but this has led me to only love others more, and in doing that to really be interested in what they have to say. For me Christ Jesus is God, I believe many Christians can profess that, but in reality simply make Jesus into themselves, their ideas and understandings…..and yes I still do that…..human beings are essentially unknowable to one another and too themselves, to understand the infinite is perhaps an eternal process. We all have such depth, we learn by speaking to one another, and by that, we change further. In God, I believe that the relationship changes God in some way, but not in his essence, so that we have a true north we can seek to hopefully find. As Christ said: seek and you shall find; for me this points to the great questions….why are we here…..what are we here for……what are we to one another…….does God exist….and I guess there are many more. Science is a big help, but in answering these questions, no.

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Posted (edited)

I am grateful for this sane place at unexplained

When I was in my late forties, I started having a kind of repetitive dream. Each dream was different, but the theme was the same and to this day I remember a few of them. I guess over the course of a couple of years I had perhaps five or six. Two stand out very clearly for me. In one dream I was sitting at my desk writing furiously, page after page essays on subjects I had never really written about much. The other dream, I was sitting in front of a computer, again, writing at a fast clip as if there was urgency to it. I was always bemused by these dreams since I actually hated writing and had no intention of doing so.

Then when I was 50, I discovered the internet, or let’s say I decided to teach myself to get on it and explore. I was amazed at all the information that was available on just about any subject and I guess for a while, for about one year I really got into reading as much as I could.

I also discovered discussion group on Yahoo and joined a few. Since I am interested in others belief systems I found a few groups that I felt a desire to join and discuss different ways at looking at the world. The first groups I joined were one that dealt with atheism. It was quite the wake up call for me. When I joined I was more often than not attacked just because I was a theist, and being a Christian, well let’s say it took some getting used to. I was impressed on these sites on how well people expressed themselves by their writing, from both sides. Both theist and atheist writing back and forth expressing their points of view, many in a respectful manner and also quite a number who just liked insulting and throw insults back and forth….it seemed enjoyable to most of them.

I decided to join in, but found it difficult to put down on paper the concepts that were swirling around in my head. A number of people on these forums helped me to learn how to slow down my mind and to deal with one thing, or thought at a time, instead of trying to put everything down at once. It was slow going, and I guess I am still learning, for I do tend to ramble, as I am doing now. Though I think that is what I am supposed to do, it seems to release some kind of inner urgency in me and I find that healing and centering.

I also joined other groups that many of my friends thought kind of strange, but for me it was just a way to learn about others and their beliefs. So I joined some Satanist discussion forums to see what they believed in. It was very interesting to say the least. Most of the groups I joined for awhile were mostly followers of Anton Lavey who wrote the book “The Satanic bible” in the 60’s. I found his followers much more interesting and way more intelligent than Anton. They were easy to communicate with once they believed that I was not there to attack or try to convert, but to simply try to figure out why and what they believed. It was an interesting journey. One thing I learned, they were atheist for the most part, and the ‘Satan” that they believed in was not the Christian one at all, at least as far as I could see. I did not agree of course with their beliefs, but both sides were able to communicate easily. Not sure they learned much from me, but I did get some insight into their beliefs. In actuality, I think many Satanist of the atheistic sort, or really closer to Ayn Rand than any other way of look at life out there.

I also joined some Wiccan groups, but found the ones I joined were for the most part still in a state of reaction against the Christian path and so I did not stay long, it was difficult to write anything without some kind of verbal explosion happening. So I decided to stop trying and leave them to their seeking and perhaps for some healing. I did study some Wiccan books in the 80’s and found them interesting to read. I like the focus on nature, healing, and even magic I believe. I learned to look at the tarot as a healing tool from reading some Wiccan books, which were quite deep in their understanding on how the intuitive mind works and not into the future aspect at all. . So for a few years I used the Tarot for healing. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and this I believe led me to writing, for the images of the tarot were a road map of my inner world and gave me the language to be able to write with.

Some beliefs are so different, that any real joining of forces may not be possible. Yet I have found that growing in understanding of others does take away simplistic notions of these paths, for each person within these groups is unique. I don’t like it when people make such sweeping statements about Christians and what they believe, so why would I think others would like that either about their beliefs. So it has been a slow journey and I am sure I will die before I even get past the beginning stages. I am grateful for a sane place that we have here in “unexplained phenomena”, well it is for the most part, in which I can express myself so freely without being attacked….well not too often. I don’t expect to always be understood, nor do I always understand the point that some here try to make, but that does not mean that I can’t try.

When two different beliefs systems come together, the worst can be brought out by both sides and both sides react in ways that often makes things worse. In the past I did this, it was slow for me to learn; now I just don’t bother. If someone gets insulting, I just let them, don’t agree and try to stay decent with them. All I have to do is to go back and see what was inside me when I did the very same thing……we are all seekers, I am a Christian, but this has led me to only love others more, and in doing that to really be interested in what they have to say. For me Christ Jesus is God, I believe many Christians can profess that, but in reality simply make Jesus into themselves, their ideas and understandings…..and yes I still do that…..human beings are essentially unknowable to one another and too themselves, to understand the infinite is perhaps an eternal process. We all have such depth, we learn by speaking to one another, and by that, we change further. In God, I believe that the relationship changes God in some way, but not in his essence, so that we have a true north we can seek to hopefully find. As Christ said: seek and you shall find; for me this points to the great questions….why are we here…..what are we here for……what are we to one another…….does God exist….and I guess there are many more. Science is a big help, but in answering these questions, no.

A person's beliefs can define them. But I commend you, despite having your own beliefs, taking the time to learn about others and their beliefs. Tolerance seems to be an empty vessel these days. There are many members on this board who have differing opinions; I seem to conflict with a few on some issues. But the overall friendliness here is apparent. There are many good sports on UM, and that is why I return to it as often as I do. I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong, and I am not afraid to share what I believe and learn from others who have different backgrounds. That is what makes the exchange of information such a beautiful one - when two polar opposites are able to amicably move past their own disagreements.

There will always be questions that will need asking, and there will always be curious people. The way I look at UM is that it provides not all of those answers - but it answers some of them, and the insight of some UM members is extraordinary in helping to find those answers. It is a true home to those curious about every thing. It is such a diverse place for one to discuss any concept.... Many, many subjects are covered. There's such a broad exchange of information.

Edited by Eonwe
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I think I need to follow your topics more often... thanks again my friend for your words, you are important here... :)

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A person's beliefs can define them. But I commend you, despite having your own beliefs, taking the time to learn about others and their beliefs. Tolerance seems to be an empty vessel these days. There are many members on this board who have differing opinions; I seem to conflict with a few on some issues. But the overall friendliness here is apparent. There are many good sports on UM, and that is why I return to it as often as I do. I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong, and I am not afraid to share what I believe and learn from others who have different backgrounds. That is what makes the exchange of information such a beautiful one - when two polar opposites are able to amicably move past their own disagreements.

There will always be questions that will need asking, and there will always be curious people. The way I look at UM is that it provides not all of those answers - but it answers some of them, and the insight of some UM members is extraordinary in helping to find those answers. It is a true home to those curious about every thing. It is such a diverse place for one to discuss any concept.... Many, many subjects are covered. There's such a broad exchange of information.

Thank found this very helpful and wise, thank you.

peace

mark

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I think I need to follow your topics more often... thanks again my friend for your words, you are important here... :)

I'll second that. I've read a few things that you have written, mark, and when it comes to the specifics of your and my beliefs we probably couldn't be further apart. But I've seen nothing but friendliness and good vibes coming from you even to people you disagree with, and that is worth far more than you being correct in your beliefs by of course agreeing 100% with my view (totally kidding! ;))

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I'll second that. I've read a few things that you have written, mark, and when it comes to the specifics of your and my beliefs we probably couldn't be further apart. But I've seen nothing but friendliness and good vibes coming from you even to people you disagree with, and that is worth far more than you being correct in your beliefs by of course agreeing 100% with my view (totally kidding! ;))

Thank you my friend.

peace

mark

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I'm perpetually fascinated by belief systems, rites, & ceremonies. I've read a lot about and participated in Ifa ceremony & study, and Native American practices. But what I truly love are the spiritual traditions of indigenous people, with their earth-based beliefs & practices, the variety of ceremonies, vibrant with color, song, dance, chanting. It's way more fun than listening to a sermon, plus there's always a feast after. I love the exuberance of it.

Because of you, Mark, I picked up a book about atheism at the library, that's a topic I really don't know much about.

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I'm perpetually fascinated by belief systems, rites, & ceremonies. I've read a lot about and participated in Ifa ceremony & study, and Native American practices. But what I truly love are the spiritual traditions of indigenous people, with their earth-based beliefs & practices, the variety of ceremonies, vibrant with color, song, dance, chanting. It's way more fun than listening to a sermon, plus there's always a feast after. I love the exuberance of it.

Because of you, Mark, I picked up a book about atheism at the library, that's a topic I really don't know much about.

One of the good thing about learning about other traditions, is that it frees us from the baggage that we have from the faith or path we were brought up in. Many of us have had bad experiences and can't learn or listen to our past tradition, so learning from other systems is good.

Interesting, you getting a book on atheism, it is an interesting topic, let me know what you think about the book. Which one did you pick up?

peace

"mark

Edited by markdohle

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