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Abramelin

The Incas, explorers of the Pacific

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Posted (edited)

We were aware, lol. For some 3 pages on end.

http://www.unexplain...05#entry4749320

.

Ahh i missed that thanks!!

I don't know when the first pre Inca peoples arrived in South America but surely there could of been contact when the Cuviernouis was nearly extinct.

Here i found this

"On the eastern side of the Gateway of Sun, in the lowest row of the frieze, are several designs that seem to outline the head, ears, tusks and trunk of an elephant-like creature, which some people say might represent the New World proboscid Cuvieronius, which became extinct 12,000 years ago, at the end of the last ice age. Each ‘elephant’ is actually composed of the heads of two crested condors, placed throat to throat – the crests constitute the ‘ears’, and the upper part of the necks the ‘tusks’ (the condors forming half of the two ‘elephants’ can be seen on the far left and far right of fig. 7:14; see also the figures below). Graham Hancock argues that the ‘elephant’ may nevertheless be intentional as the Tiwanaku sculptors often used one thing to depict another – e.g. an ear on an apparently human face might turn out to be a bird’s wing."

andes7%20sungate6.jpg

http://davidpratt.info/andes2.htm

Edited by The New Richard Nixon

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Posted (edited)

Ahh i missed that thanks!!

I don't know when the first pre Inca peoples arrived in South America but surely there could of been contact when the Cuviernouis was nearly extinct.

Here i found this

"On the eastern side of the Gateway of Sun, in the lowest row of the frieze, are several designs that seem to outline the head, ears, tusks and trunk of an elephant-like creature, which some people say might represent the New World proboscid Cuvieronius, which became extinct 12,000 years ago, at the end of the last ice age. Each ‘elephant’ is actually composed of the heads of two crested condors, placed throat to throat – the crests constitute the ‘ears’, and the upper part of the necks the ‘tusks’ (the condors forming half of the two ‘elephants’ can be seen on the far left and far right of fig. 7:14; see also the figures below). Graham Hancock argues that the ‘elephant’ may nevertheless be intentional as the Tiwanaku sculptors often used one thing to depict another – e.g. an ear on an apparently human face might turn out to be a bird’s wing."

andes7%20sungate6.jpg

http://davidpratt.info/andes2.htm

If you read that post of mine I linked to, you will have read that some sources say that these elephants were still alive around 2000 years ago and even a few centuries more recent than that, but I have never found a scientific paper confirming that date.

From your post:

"On the eastern side of the Gateway of Sun, in the lowest row of the frieze, are several designs that seem to outline the head, ears, tusks and trunk of an elephant-like creature, which some people say might represent the New World proboscid Cuvieronius, which became extinct 12,000 years ago, at the end of the last ice age. Each ‘elephant’ is actually composed of the heads of two crested condors, placed throat to throat – the crests constitute the ‘ears’, and the upper part of the necks the ‘tusks’ (the condors forming half of the two ‘elephants’ can be seen on the far left and far right of fig. 7:14; see also the figures below). Graham Hancock argues that the ‘elephant’ may nevertheless be intentional as the Tiwanaku sculptors often used one thing to depict another – e.g. an ear on an apparently human face might turn out to be a bird’s wing."

Those are birds alright.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Why was crossing an ocean a taboo?

Is it possible they were forced to cross the ocean by some natural disaster?

.

Maybe not a natural disaster...

How peaceful was Harappan Civilization?

http://a.harappa.com/content/how-peaceful-was-harappan-civilization

Surprising Discoveries From the Indus Civilization

Archaeologists say the Indus civilization wasn’t nearly as peaceful as popularly thought.

Experts have long thought that the Indus region was indeed vastly different from ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia in one respect: the level of violence. Based on the lack of evidence for mass destruction of any Indus cities, and the lack of depictions of soldiers or killing, the Indus is often described as a "peaceful realm." But recent scrutiny of another group of Harappan skeletons tells a darker story.

Bones from about 1900 to 1700 B.C.—more than a millennium later than those examined by Kenoyer—make it clear that at least some Harappan residents were subjected to savage violence. The skull of a child between four and six years old was cracked and crushed by blows from a club-like weapon. An adult woman was beaten so badly—with extreme force, according to researchers—that her skull caved in. A middle-aged man had a broken nose as well as damage to his forehead inflicted by a sharp-edged, heavy implement.

Of the 18 skulls examined from this time period, nearly half showed serious injuries from violence, researchers reported in a recent paper in the International Journal of Paleopathology. The rate of skull injuries tied to violence is the highest recorded in the prehistory of South Asia, the researchers say. It may be no coincidence that at the time of these burials the Indus civilization was beginning to disintegrate and parts of Harappa were being abandoned, for reasons that scholars are still debating.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130425-indus-civilization-discoveries-harappa-archaeology-science/

I think an invading people forced the Harappans to flee on their ships, and some may have ended up in Australia.

If you read both articles, they seem to suggest that the IVC or Harappan civilization wasn't as peaceful as was always assumed. However, I think it was peaceful, but ended in a violent manner.

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I am not being fringie, but i have noticed that there is some sort of similarity between the rongo rongo script of easter islands and the IVC script.

Any thoughts?

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God

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sad-face-paper-bag.jpg

NEVER AGAIN!!!

I am not good at all at being a fringie!!

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Posted (edited)

Woolly mammoths and other large beasts in North America may not have gone extinct as long ago as previously thought

The new view — that pockets of beasts survived to as recently as 7,600 years ago, rather than the previous end times mark of 12,000 years ago — is supported by DNA evidence found in a few pinches of dirt.

http://www.nbcnews.c...cience-science/

The ancestors of the Incas were hunters who came from Asia crossing the Bering Strait.

The Incas would have remembered the Elephants.

Edited by docyabut2
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Woolly mammoths and other large beasts in North America may not have gone extinct as long ago as previously thought

The new view — that pockets of beasts survived to as recently as 7,600 years ago, rather than the previous end times mark of 12,000 years ago — is supported by DNA evidence found in a few pinches of dirt.

http://www.nbcnews.c...cience-science/

The ancestors of the Incas were hunters who came from Asia crossing the Bering Strait.

The Incas would have remembered the Elephants.

Based on your link it's not likely since the two, Inca and DNA samples, are separated by some 6800+ years (to 13th century AD) and 6000+ miles. Neither the Inca nor their immediate ancestors would have 'remembered' any such thing over that long a time and distance.

cormac

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The Ancient Indian and Chinese had huge sea worthy vessels, which could have easily crossed the pacific.Maybe the knowledge of crossing the pacific and the mayan and incans was so common place that it did not warrant special mention.

The architecture of Ankorwat and other monuments in south east asia like the step pyramid and monuments in South America show great simmilarity which was honestly reported by early European explorers.

Why else you think Pyramids were built in Egypt, the knowledge reached South East Asia, where more such Pyramids for Sun worship etc were also constructed, from where the knowledge of Pyramid building could have reached South America.

The route highlighted by the Pyramids may be the biggest clue in this mystery. I don't believe that all these ancients ended up building pyramids in isolation. And if the European adventures were right about discovering continents (it is funny that they claimed to discover these continents though there were civilizations present in these continents when they arrived) then there should have been Pyramids of some form in Europe.

Klaus_Dona_2_html_2fa10807.jpg

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If there were exchange of ideas/culture or even ancient Asians traveling to South America and Egypt etc, there would be some sort of traces, physical or documentary -records either in stone, or papyrus or books or references in ancient manuscripts etc or physical traces like pottery, beads, artifacts.

Of course, Absence of evidence is not final and proving that there has been no exchanges.

But Absence of evidence, till such evidence is found, will not support any such idea or notion of any exchange.

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The Ancient Indian and Chinese had huge sea worthy vessels, which could have easily crossed the pacific.Maybe the knowledge of crossing the pacific and the mayan and incans was so common place that it did not warrant special mention.

The architecture of Ankorwat and other monuments in south east asia like the step pyramid and monuments in South America show great simmilarity which was honestly reported by early European explorers.

Why else you think Pyramids were built in Egypt, the knowledge reached South East Asia, where more such Pyramids for Sun worship etc were also constructed, from where the knowledge of Pyramid building could have reached South America.

The route highlighted by the Pyramids may be the biggest clue in this mystery. I don't believe that all these ancients ended up building pyramids in isolation. And if the European adventures were right about discovering continents (it is funny that they claimed to discover these continents though there were civilizations present in these continents when they arrived) then there should have been Pyramids of some form in Europe.

Klaus_Dona_2_html_2fa10807.jpg

The pyramid form is the form you get when you stack a large bunch of stones, so that explains why pyramids are all over the earth.

Btw, Europe has a pyramid too; it's even in the photo you posted.

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If there were exchange of ideas/culture or even ancient Asians traveling to South America and Egypt etc, there would be some sort of traces, physical or documentary -records either in stone, or papyrus or books or references in ancient manuscripts etc or physical traces like pottery, beads, artifacts.

Of course, Absence of evidence is not final and proving that there has been no exchanges.

But Absence of evidence, till such evidence is found, will not support any such idea or notion of any exchange.

What about the various monuments, common cultural elements, availibility of means of crossing oceans. There maybe written records also, but they are not being interpreted in the right frame.

In evolutionary terms, when do you think humans reached south America and through what route?

Currently only the Northern corridor is being suggested via Green land and Vikings etc, the south east asia possibility is stronger in my opinion.

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The pyramid form is the form you get when you stack a large bunch of stones, so that explains why pyramids are all over the earth.

Btw, Europe has a pyramid too; it's even in the photo you posted.

That explanation seems rather simplistic, you even get skyscrapers shaped towers by stacking up bricks/stones, why did they choose pyramids? Almost all of them are associated with Sun worship, even if they stacked stones which naturally looked like pyramids then why did they attribute it to the Sun God?

Irrespective of the Sun god connection, the pyramids are difficult to dismiss as a coincidence, i don't think that all these cultures that were advance enough to construct such huge monumnets would be independently taking inspirations from a pile of stones.

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What about the various monuments, common cultural elements, availibility of means of crossing oceans. There maybe written records also, but they are not being interpreted in the right frame.

In evolutionary terms, when do you think humans reached south America and through what route?

Currently only the Northern corridor is being suggested via Green land and Vikings etc, the south east asia possibility is stronger in my opinion.

The pyramidal shape of ancient structures in South East Asia is purely based on influence of Indian extent into those areas.

Angkor Wat for one example is the influence of South Indian temple Architecture.So are many temples and religious structures of Indonesia.

As Abe stated, a Pyramid is what you get when you stack large stone blocks/stones on top of each other.

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Woolly mammoths and other large beasts in North America may not have gone extinct as long ago as previously thought

The new view — that pockets of beasts survived to as recently as 7,600 years ago, rather than the previous end times mark of 12,000 years ago — is supported by DNA evidence found in a few pinches of dirt.

http://www.nbcnews.c...cience-science/

The ancestors of the Incas were hunters who came from Asia crossing the Bering Strait.

The Incas would have remembered the Elephants.

Or maybe they were not primitve Hunters that crossed the berring strait but a more civilized peoples. Who also kept their connections with Asia via trade and cultural exchange.

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The pyramidal shape of ancient structures in South East Asia is purely based on influence of Indian extent into those areas.

Angkor Wat for one example is the influence of South Indian temple Architecture.So are many temples and religious structures of Indonesia.

As Abe stated, a Pyramid is what you get when you stack large stone blocks/stones on top of each other.

Or may be the Indians had been to Egypt and were aware of the Great Pyramids.

No new evidence is required,It is the interpretation that matters also.

Which brings me to my next question, were the Ancient Egyptians as we know them from Africa? Or had they migrated there?

How old is the GP and the Sphinx? Was it built by a culture out dating the AE?

Was there ever a Global civilization? If yes , then in what point of time did it exist?

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That explanation seems rather simplistic, you even get skyscrapers shaped towers by stacking up bricks/stones, why did they choose pyramids? Almost all of them are associated with Sun worship, even if they stacked stones which naturally looked like pyramids then why did they attribute it to the Sun God?

Irrespective of the Sun god connection, the pyramids are difficult to dismiss as a coincidence, i don't think that all these cultures that were advance enough to construct such huge monumnets would be independently taking inspirations from a pile of stones.

They choose pyramids because a simple experiment proves pyramids to be the most stable structure when you want to build big.

Load a truck with bricks, and then ask the driver to to push a button in his cabin to unload again. Then look what 'structure' you get.

I promise you, it won't look like a skyscraper.

AJFP0H.jpg

(no bricks, but you'll get the idea)

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Posted (edited)

They choose pyramids because a simple experiment proves pyramids to be the most stable structure when you want to build big.

Load a truck with bricks, and then ask the driver to to push a button in his cabin to unload again. Then look what 'structure' you get.

I promise you, it won't look like a skyscraper.

AJFP0H.jpg

(no bricks, but you'll get the idea)

A better example would be of a Mountain, that looks more like a conical pyramid and is naturally visible almost everywhere. Also the correlation between the Mountain top and heavens where the Gods reside.Have considered many of these possibilities, have been skeptical of most of them, but have not yet found a definitive answer.

08+Mount+Kailash+Close+Up+from+The+Kangnyi+Chorten+Tarboche+Area+On+Mount+Kailash+Outer+Kora.jpg

The Mountain hypothesis would be better then the pile of stones hypothesis.(above is a picture of the famed mount Kailasa in tibet, revered as the once abode of supreme Godhead).

Were the AE looking to emulate mountains from their actual homeland? Nevermind.We dont yet know whether AE were black,white or brown and were they locals or had migrated from elsewhere (atleast the ruling class) definitively. Neither do we know that the AE had built the GP for sure, maybe some other more ancient peoples built the GP to emulate a sacred mountain in their actual homeland. But who knows right?

But i am not looking for naturalistic explanations for why they build pyramids, i am asking about why did so many who were supposed be to culturally and geographically isolated, built similar structures for similar purposes i.e. religious reverence or housing the Gods? One of them could have taken inspiration from a mountain or a pile of rocks, but all of them independently being inspired by the same thing is a bigger coincidence then i can digest.

Edited by Harsh86_Patel

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A better example would be of a Mountain, that looks more like a conical pyramid and is naturally visible almost everywhere. Also the correlation between the Mountain top and heavens where the Gods reside.Have considered many of these possibilities, have been skeptical of most of them, but have not yet found a definitive answer.

08+Mount+Kailash+Close+Up+from+The+Kangnyi+Chorten+Tarboche+Area+On+Mount+Kailash+Outer+Kora.jpg

The Mountain hypothesis would be better then the pile of stones hypothesis.(above is a picture of the famed mount Kailasa in tibet, revered as the once abode of supreme Godhead)

But i am not looking for naturalistic explanations for why they build pyramids, i am asking about why did so many who were supposed be to culturally and geographically isolated, built similar structures? One of them could have taken inspiration from a mountain of a pile of rocks, but all of them independently being inspired by the same thing is a bigger coincidence then i can digest.

So you think it's more than a coincidence that people all over the earth have respect for mountains and try to build artificial ones? Why do people need to be in contact to have a similar idea? People look up in awe to a mountain, a place near the gods, and most are scared sh_less when they look into an abyss, the dark deep. So the dark deep is the place of the demons, hell, and the bright blue sky up above is the place of the gods. Maybe you should have asked Carl Jung why people believe in certain things in a similar way all over the world.

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not just Mountains or buildings but burial grounds in England rise up like a square triangle on some of them

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not just Mountains or buildings but burial grounds in England rise up like a square triangle on some of them

Are these mounds contemporary with the Druids?

Yes maybe the shape of the burial mounds may have led the ancients to believe that Mountains were burial mounds of the Gods, that could have inspired the Ancients to build huge mountain like pyramids as tombs for their Pharoahs who were considered living Gods.But who knows right?

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Are these mounds contemporary with the Druids?

Yes maybe the shape of the burial mounds may have led the ancients to believe that Mountains were burial mounds of the Gods, that could have inspired the Ancients to build huge mountain like pyramids as tombs for their Pharoahs who were considered living Gods.But who knows right?

In fact the Incas and many of the present-day natives of Peru, Bolivia and Chile still consider the mountains to be gods.

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Posted (edited)

Are these mounds contemporary with the Druids?

Yes maybe the shape of the burial mounds may have led the ancients to believe that Mountains were burial mounds of the Gods, that could have inspired the Ancients to build huge mountain like pyramids as tombs for their Pharoahs who were considered living Gods.But who knows right?

Nothing to do with the Druids, they are much older.

SILBURY HILL

At 40 metres (131 ft) high, Silbury Hill – which is part of the complex of Neolithic monuments around Avebury, which includes the Avebury Ring and West Kennet Long Barrow – is the tallest prehistoric human-made mound in Europe and one of the largest in the world; it is similar in size to some of the smaller Egyptian pyramids of the Giza Necropolis. Its original purpose however, is still highly debated.

Composed mainly of chalk and clay excavated from the surrounding area, the mound stands 40 metres (131 ft) high[4] and covers about 5 acres (2 ha). It is a display of immense technical skill and prolonged control over labour and resources. Archaeologists calculate that Silbury Hill was built about 4,750 years ago and that it took 18 million man-hours, or 500 men working for 15 years (Atkinson 1974:128) to deposit and shape 248,000 cubic metres (324,000 cu yd) of earth and fill on top of a natural hill. Euan W. Mackie asserts that no simple late Neolithic tribal structure as usually imagined could have sustained this and similar projects, and envisages an authoritarian theocratic power elite with broad-ranging control across southern Britain.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Silbury_Hill

Silbury_Hill_Skizze.jpg

Silbury_Hill_Drawing.jpg

SH+-+water+filled+ditch.jpg

Edited by Abramelin

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So you think it's more than a coincidence that people all over the earth have respect for mountains and try to build artificial ones? Why do people need to be in contact to have a similar idea? People look up in awe to a mountain, a place near the gods, and most are scared sh_less when they look into an abyss, the dark deep. So the dark deep is the place of the demons, hell, and the bright blue sky up above is the place of the gods. Maybe you should have asked Carl Jung why people believe in certain things in a similar way all over the world.

Carl Jung and Pyschotherapy the talking cure is still fighting for legitimacy.Though am appreciative of his and freuds attempts.

Regarding your comparison to abyss etc, there is no monument made to represent hell, the egyptians were not shy of diving into tunnels and underground caves,neither were other ancients in different parts of the world. Some of these caves and abysses were revered and connected to Gods.

There was no hell and heaven concept...lol. Though there was a underworld concept.

The ancients would have mastered thier fear of the dark considering that they didn't have electricity. They would have been more pragmatic about dark abysses etc.

Primitive humans would reside in dark caves and consider it home.

Neverthless....like i said, drawing inspiration from natural sources is just the first step,then attaching it to religious reverence and executing huge monuments to commermorate the belief are further steps.All these different ancient cultures following all the three/four steps involved in the building of these pyramids, seems more then coincidence.

But look at the dichotomy of the mainstream view.....diffusionist claim that early HSS travelled the globe and colonized almost the whole globe using primitive means but relatively way more advanced civilization wouldn't have been able to travel around the globe and be aware of other civilizations in different parts of the world.

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Posted (edited)

In fact the Incas and many of the present-day natives of Peru, Bolivia and Chile still consider the mountains to be gods.

Am aware of it.Even ancient Hindus and modern day Hindus revere mountains as God since time imemmorial.Hope i am not sounding nationalistic.

Edited by Harsh86_Patel

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