Occum's Razor = some Crop Circles are 'real'

[shrooma]

Creating them with people takes math and geometry?

Yes... but what's the point ?

.

to promote endless discussions on internet forums about unexplained phenomena maybe....?

:-)

[DONTEATUS]

It looks like they found some funding to keep the Arecibo dish in bussiness until next few years at least. They were going to shut it down Last year. Keep an eye to the Sky !

[laver]

It looks like they found some funding to keep the Arecibo dish in bussiness until next few years at least. They were going to shut it down Last year. Keep an eye to the Sky !

And on Mother Earth !

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Creating them with people takes math and geometry?

Yes... but what's the point ?

Because they could.

It's like pillocks climbing up the outside of buildings without harnesses, or jumping from orbit or the myriad of things people do that makes everyone else go "WTF".

[laver]

Because they could.

It's like pillocks climbing up the outside of buildings without harnesses, or jumping from orbit or the myriad of things people do that makes everyone else go "WTF".

Complicated and very clever mathematical crop designs are not the creation of 'pillocks' !

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Complicated and very clever mathematical crop designs are not the creation of 'pillocks' !

People with too much time on their hands then?

Merchant Bankers perhaps?

[DONTEATUS]

Well in a way that means crop Circles are indeed Real,Real crop`s,real people made them,Real photos were taken. Facts are Facts !

[laver]

Well in a way that means crop Circles are indeed Real,Real crop`s,real people made them,Real photos were taken. Facts are Facts !

Really...!

[laver]

People with too much time on their hands then?

Merchant Bankers perhaps?

So much work to design and create them for no return or bonus...does not sound like Merchant Bankers !

[Emma_Acid]

So much work to design and create them for no return or bonus...does not sound like Merchant Bankers !

Almost all creativity is for "no return or bonus". Its making for the sake of making.

[Lilly]

Haven't you all heard the phrase, "Art for art's sake"?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So much work to design and create them for no return or bonus...does not sound like Merchant Bankers !

rhyming slang to subvert the filter on the site - merchant bankers, ******s.

[laver]

rhyming slang to subvert the filter on the site - merchant bankers, ******s.

Yup, I got your probable intended meaning..! But my point was that no one, if all manmade, gets a benefit from all this work. The comment of Lilly on the previous post is relevant.. most or nearly all artists like to get recognition for their work.. its human nature unless this is mindless graffitti and the nature of the designs with complex geometrical and mathematical messages would appear to rule that out.

Edited April 26, 2013 by laver

[Emma_Acid]

Yup, I got your probable intended meaning..! But my point was that no one, if all manmade, gets a benefit from all this work. The comment of Lilly on the previous post is relevant.. most or nearly all artists like to get recognition for their work.. its human nature unless this is mindless graffitti and the nature of the designs with complex geometrical and mathematical messages would appear to rule that out.

Behold, the weakest argument I've ever heard against crop circles being man made.

[bison]

Haven't you all heard the phrase, "Art for art's sake"?

Crop circles as pure art? That would certainly solve the problem of why they're made, regardless of who, or what, made them. That wouldn't be such a bad thing for visiting extraterrestrials to present us with, either. Far better that than some technological wonder, which we might turn into a weapon!

Some of the crop circles also embody truly novel geometrical concepts. This looks like a new artistic movement, at least. Maybe a look at an entirely different culture, which knows no boundaries between the analytic and the esthetic.

[Esoteric Toad]

Crop circles as pure art? That would certainly solve the problem of why they're made, regardless of who, or what, made them. That wouldn't be such a bad thing for visiting extraterrestrials to present us with, either. Far better that than some technological wonder, which we might turn into a weapon!

Some of the crop circles also embody truly novel geometrical concepts. This looks like a new artistic movement, at least. Maybe a look at an entirely different culture, which knows no boundaries between the analytic and the esthetic.

It would be pointless for ALIENZ to create them. Obviously since people HAVE created them then the ET's would fail to make any point at all.

Why is it that aliens are so damn shy that they cannot simply LAND and SAY HELLO?? We are not that stupid that we would not understand that. It would NOT fail. Unlike zipping around, making themselves impossible to photograph and probing people.

We study nearly every creature on our planet. From single cell germs to dolphins, chimps, apes and of course other people. If there were intelligent life that wanted to contact us they would have some idea of how to do it in a useful way that would not allow for misinterpretation. Of course I am basing this on the only known advance intelligent tool-using other intelligent searching species. US.

The answer? They are not here.

JMO.

[HDesiato]

Yup, I got your probable intended meaning..! But my point was that no one, if all manmade, gets a benefit from all this work. The comment of Lilly on the previous post is relevant.. most or nearly all artists like to get recognition for their work.. its human nature unless this is mindless graffitti and the nature of the designs with complex geometrical and mathematical messages would appear to rule that out.

The graphitti artist Banksy has remained anonymous through his early career. These days he is cashing in on commissioned work via a third party, although his identity has not been revealed to the public.

Creating complex stencils beforehand, he also worked quickly, avoiding detection.

I often see the opinion expressed that such complex crop designs are not humanly possible, in such a brief time.

I understand the rows of crops could be used to ones advantage for a grid system. Transferring from small scale plans to life size, this method would assist in maintaining accuracy.

I imagine most of the work would be done in the preplanning stage. Working out the choreography, if you will.

[S2F]

Not only art but there is a fair amount of mischief and prankery involved as well. Hell, I'd be tempted to get some friends together and make a crop circle if I thought people would be standing around scratching their heads over it and especially if I thought some were going to misconstrue the whole thing and blame aliens for it. I'd be laughing for years about it.

[laver]

Behold, the weakest argument I've ever heard against crop circles being man made.

Just a comment, there are many better arguments for keeping an open mind on the matter as you are clearly aware

[laver]

The graphitti artist Banksy has remained anonymous through his early career. These days he is cashing in on commissioned work via a third party, although his identity has not been revealed to the public.

Creating complex stencils beforehand, he also worked quickly, avoiding detection.

I often see the opinion expressed that such complex crop designs are not humanly possible, in such a brief time.

I understand the rows of crops could be used to ones advantage for a grid system. Transferring from small scale plans to life size, this method would assist in maintaining accuracy.

I imagine most of the work would be done in the preplanning stage. Working out the choreography, if you will.

Banksy has a name, recognition and gets paid: most artists do not do their work for none of these motives.

[laver]

Not only art but there is a fair amount of mischief and prankery involved as well. Hell, I'd be tempted to get some friends together and make a crop circle if I thought people would be standing around scratching their heads over it and especially if I thought some were going to misconstrue the whole thing and blame aliens for it. I'd be laughing for years about it.

Grow up; these designs have been building up now for many years and the mentality of pranksters out for an immature giggle just does not fit the facts in many cases. Some yes, but complex geometrical forms, no way.

[S2F]

Grow up; these designs have been building up now for many years and the mentality of pranksters out for an immature giggle just does not fit the facts in many cases. Some yes, but complex geometrical forms, no way.

I'm sure you have somewhere amidst all of your sources, of which you are so keen to share, something that shows it is impossible to pull a prank with the inclusion of complex geometric shapes, or even any complexity at all right? Something that shows that complexity and tom-foolery are mutually exclusive?

[bison]

It would be pointless for ALIENZ to create them. Obviously since people HAVE created them then the ET's would fail to make any point at all.

Why is it that aliens are so damn shy that they cannot simply LAND and SAY HELLO?? We are not that stupid that we would not understand that. It would NOT fail. Unlike zipping around, making themselves impossible to photograph and probing people.

We study nearly every creature on our planet. From single cell germs to dolphins, chimps, apes and of course other people. If there were intelligent life that wanted to contact us they would have some idea of how to do it in a useful way that would not allow for misinterpretation. Of course I am basing this on the only known advance intelligent tool-using other intelligent searching species. US.

The answer? They are not here.

JMO.

I'm not at all certain that it is pointless for extraterrestrials to create crop circles, even given the fact that some are created by human beings. Their purpose might not be to unambiguously announce their presence, but to suggest it. In that case, the uncertainty about the origin of any particular crop circle might serve their purpose very well. The idea that some crop circles could be created by extraterrestrials seems to have become quite widespread. The serious consideration of this possibility may be the preparatory step intended, as part of a gradual process of contact.

The assertion that we should be contacted all at once, without preparation, or could be so contacted without creating serious problems is certainly open to question. Reference was made to the study of chimpanzees, and apes in general. When one reads of the work of Dian Fossey or Jane Goodall, they find accounts of gradual contact with ape social groups. This was desired to avoid causing fear and flight, or aggression. It doesn't seem to be expecting too much, that extraterrestrials could manage at least as much care in contacting humans.

Leaving their art lying about in fields for us to find, and speculate about, seems a notably subtle way for extraterrestrials to begin introducing themselves to us.

Edited April 26, 2013 by bison

[laver]

Leaving their art lying about in fields for us to find, and speculate about, seems a notably subtle way for extraterrestrials to begin introducing themselves to us.

A quite possible scenario particularly if this art has geometric and mathematical messages encoded in it for us to ponder over. The links to very ancient sites in Wiltshire is quite strong there are clear indications that human developement has had external influence in the distant past which is supported by myth and legend.

[_Only]

It would be pointless for ALIENZ to create them. Obviously since people HAVE created them then the ET's would fail to make any point at all.

Why is it that aliens are so damn shy that they cannot simply LAND and SAY HELLO?? We are not that stupid that we would not understand that. It would NOT fail. Unlike zipping around, making themselves impossible to photograph and probing people.

We study nearly every creature on our planet. From single cell germs to dolphins, chimps, apes and of course other people. If there were intelligent life that wanted to contact us...

Hypothetically, is it obligatory that supposed crop circle symbols would have to be necessarily created to convey any sort of message, or even intended? The whole 'aliens are leaving behind symbols or doing things to get our attention" mentality is an odd one, yet is used by both sides of this debate, each to their own benefit, like it is a given in the situation.

edit: A slightly abstract example to get my hypothetical point across. A man has an unnatural gift. Everything he sits on turns rainbow colored. Everyone sees his rainbow creations (a rainbow rock, rainbow chair, rainbow hammock, etc.) and are boggled at what his point could possibly be in going across the land, stopping to make rainbow artwork, then moving on. They argue among themselves, some claiming he is giving them as gifts, others claiming it is a bold message being sent, others saying it is a hoaxer following him around and painting objects in the area where the man has been.

Meanwhile, the man gets tired from his journey, and has another sit to catch his breath. He gets back up to continue on, never noticing the rainbow patch of grass he leaves behind.

Edited April 27, 2013 by _Only