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Are angels real?

Are angels real?   82 members have voted

  1. 1. Are angels real?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      27

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199 posts in this topic

It seems that there are kingdoms that mirror the earthly kingdoms, or regions, and each of these is ruled by a Prince. These Princes are also angels then, but we also know them in parallel as "Gods" in other religions.

This is my understanding of how Mormons view things, except to them these kingdoms and so on are composed of people who were like us living on their own equivalents of the earth, in what seems to be an infinite hierarchy.

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I think that in a certain way, humans were angels before they are born. Like when God calls for volounteers to send them to Earth, to be born and to live and experience life as humans, i believe a host of volounteers would line up for the job, although they are aware of the high fail rate of human life. Looks like unemployment is really high in heaven :)

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Nothing whatsoever, unless like I do, you believe Jesus was a historical figure, told the truth, and knew what he was talking about, in which case, based on his authority, I would say angels do exist...not sure why you think this has nothing to do with the topic. Have a nice day.

edited because of my usual mistake(s)

The question wasn't about Jesus, work it out.

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So, you associate good with angels and evil with demons?

Obviously.

You can switch roles and consider demons “good” and angels “evil”, but in the end you are still searching for either constructive or destructive force that you feel you belong to. "Feel" being the key word.

More intriguing view than switching roles is – for me personally – the absence of classic idea of polarities. No good and no evil in eternal conflict, no evil shadow, only logical consequence of existence of light. Personally, I'm not that advanced. I feel the distinction and it's important to me in this level of existence.

And how on earth did you arrive at that moronic statement?

I’m not the type of person with whom you should start **** throwing contest.

Refrain from “moronic” adjectives.

Now, the Satanists.

True Satanist is a person dedicated to destruction, according to widely accepted perception.

In order to make conversation, you should consider widely accepted concepts, then explain your concept and how they differ from mine, or we will never communicate, only repeat our opinions.

Let me guess then: you probably wanted to refer to Satanists whose religion is based on above mentioned switched roles, where the stereotypes remain the same, while only the polarities are shifted to the opposite side.

So there’s the evil God denying knowledge and Lucifer the light-bringer seen as true constructive force or something along that line.

I gave you the outline of my conception, now you explain what I got wrong and how it works in your opinion, which I won’t call moronic, though plain switched roles are pretty close to that adjective in my own view.

I hear ya and agree for the most part, the thing is that person was probably already indoctrined into a Christian based faith and so 'that' is mulling around in his uncounsciousness.

Could be. I think not, since he had interesting obsession with North American Indians, so intense his last sight was vision of buffalo, an animal he never saw in real life.

So if it was only a projection of belief one feels, he’d become amateur shaman, not seemingly possessed with a demon.

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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This is my understanding of how Mormons view things, except to them these kingdoms and so on are composed of people who were like us living on their own equivalents of the earth, in what seems to be an infinite hierarchy.

They may view it like that, but all things being equal, angels and the other spiritual entities were never human, now, in the past or whenever. They may take human form but to be human is more than the shape of a body.

We can never be angels, we can never be Gods either, that is not the purpose for which God created humanity, and all of these beings were created with a purpose, just as humans were created with a purpose.

We can never become them or they become us. The Mormon view fails in this respect, they confuse the boundries with no clear biblical reason for doing so.

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The question wasn't about Jesus, work it out.

The question was "are angels real?". According to Jesus, they are, is what I'm saying, capish?

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Throughout my studies on trance and music I've come to understand possession as a cultural phenomenon. That one desires this possession to take place and that the entities involved are a part of the person's spiritual background and makeup.

Interesting take on the phenomenon. I don't believe it explains the entirety of possession but I do see the connection in this context.

You don't find people living in Vatican City being possessed by Lwa of the Vodoun pantheon,

Of late, I'm not so certain of that anymore. :no:

And you usually never find atheists being possessed by anything.

Except maybe their love for Nogod. :whistle:

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I would call this your Dæmon / Higher Self / Holy Guardian Angel . . . etc.

It is all of those but also more.

My consciousness and my body interconnect with another "higher" consciousness and "being"

This connection and its effects, enhances, empowers and adds outside knowledge to my inner self. But as it aids and strengthens and teaches my inner self, that becomes more robust, powerful knowledgeable, capable and empowered; and then can accept more of the outside help.

It is a physical and intellectual/spiritual symbiotic relationship.

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We can never become them or they become us. The Mormon view fails in this respect, they confuse the boundries with no clear biblical reason for doing so.

I'm not a Mormon so I can't say what the Bible says about this. Still, I suspect they could find passages to support them. This has always been my experience with different Christian views.

In the meantime I see no particular logical reason for there having to be a boundary. God should be able to achieve whatever He wants.

Edited by Frank Merton

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Of late, I'm not so certain of that anymore. :no:

:lol:

One of the reasons why I can't be religious is the behaviour of religious leaders, starting with Vatican.

(Starting with them because I should be Catholic, but if the Church tolerates priests who refuse to bury people until family pays for the service, they are bunch of atheists or worse in my opinion.)

I'm not a Mormon so I can't say what the Bible says about this. Still, I suspect they could find passages to support them. This has always been my experience with different Christian views.

In the meantime I see no particular logical reason for there having to be a boundary. God should be able to achieve whatever He wants.

I completely agree. If there's God, they can't possibly be limited with expectations of men.

Too many people in too many areas in too long time span have been seeing and even interacting with angel-like beings.

If someone’s theory can’t explain them, then the theory is wrong, not the reality.

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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I'm not a Mormon so I can't say what the Bible says about this. Still, I suspect they could find passages to support them. This has always been my experience with different Christian views.

In the meantime I see no particular logical reason for there having to be a boundary. God should be able to achieve whatever He wants.

He does, achieve whatever he wants, it is our understanding that lags.

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Too many people in too many areas in too long time span have been seeing and even interacting with angel-like beings.

If someone’s theory can’t explain them, then the theory is wrong, not the reality.

So what theory does not explain them?

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So what theory does not explain them?

Pick one, from variety of choices.

In my opinion, not one theory explains them, or doesn’t do that convincingly, leaving no room for doubt.

Faith can explain them, but faith is – again in my opinion – above reasoning. Because of that it’s not acceptable argument for those who don’t share the same faith.

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Interesting take on the phenomenon. I don't believe it explains the entirety of possession but I do see the connection in this context.

Of late, I'm not so certain of that anymore. :no:

Except maybe their love for Nogod. :whistle:

Cute rebuttals! Without definition and closing, but cute.

I don't see any of this as 'phenomenom'

I think it does explain the whole of 'phenomenom' along with it's use

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Cute rebuttals! Without definition and closing, but cute.

I don't see any of this as 'phenomenom'

I think it does explain the whole of 'phenomenom' along with it's use

Sorry ... I've been fighting a massive headache and a couple cracked ribs for the past week or so. Thinking is not a high priority at the moment.

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Sorry ... I've been fighting a massive headache and a couple cracked ribs for the past week or so. Thinking is not a high priority at the moment.

If that's YOU "fighting a massive headache and a couple cracked ribs" . . .then I want to see you 100%!!!!!!!

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If that's YOU "fighting a massive headache and a couple cracked ribs" . . .then I want to see you 100%!!!!!!!

I'm sorry but when did I become subject to your edicts? That's a memo I never received.

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I voted no because I'm not a believer in religion. As an aside, it's interesting that in Buddhism, Buddhas are considered to be superior to angels and even superior to gods.

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Pick one, from variety of choices.

In my opinion, not one theory explains them, or doesn’t do that convincingly, leaving no room for doubt.

Faith can explain them, but faith is – again in my opinion – above reasoning. Because of that it’s not acceptable argument for those who don’t share the same faith.

The criteria is self evident when discussing angels, there is experiential evidence, and then there is written evidence, that can be classified as historical evidence. Naturally both types of evidence have detractors for the most varied reasons, the weakness in both arguments is that you cannot call on an angel to appear at your whim, and you cannot travel in time to experience the veracity of the written accounts.

Taking for granted that most people will not lie about an account of this nature if it happens to them, then there is more than sufficient evidence to back the possibility of their existence. These accounts invariably change lives radically, sometimes for the better other times for the worse.

Since I have never knowingly met an angel, I can only rely on the written evidence itself and in this regard, I consider the source before I commit to a position.

I take the biblical accounts of angels as testimony of actual occurences, many times they are actually determinant in the development of the Theological thoughts of later generations.

As such we have quite alot of information about angels, the factions they belong to and what their purposes are.

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By the way, that was one amateur Satanist. Real ones are usually the role models on the outside and rotten piles of greed and destruction on the inside. And that was off topic, damn it, but I had to say it.

So I owe you one off topic.

Whoa, that's a bit terrifying to me. It could explain the likes of people like Ted Bundy, whom everyone seemed to have a high opinion of, until his true nature was revealed...sorry for getting a bit off topic.

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Whoa, that's a bit terrifying to me. It could explain the likes of people like Ted Bundy, whom everyone seemed to have a high opinion of, until his true nature was revealed...sorry for getting a bit off topic.

Not too off topic, in my opinion, since most beliefs recognize both angels and demons – and the most important difference is in their intentions.

So I seriously believe sometimes we are assisted by beings we call angels, while destructive people are assisted by beings we call demons. Names don't matter, we could call them givers and takers or apples and pears, what matters is the intention. Visible from the outcomes of one's actions if not right away.

Again, it’s all clear for religious people, namely Christians, the Devil is real and seductive.

But a lot of non-religious people will agree too that “evil” can be very attractive, superficially.

Psychopaths like Bundy are believed to lack empathy, but they can imitate normal emotions and appear even more sane than someone truly sane who doesn’t put so much effort in responding properly – and that’s precisely why “perfect” people make me cautious.

Of course, I’m not talking about sane people with good self-control, I’m talking about people who respond perfectly but all your senses are screaming “fake”... it’s hard to describe, but most of us can spot a psycho if we listen to our instincts. Seriously.

Maybe it’s just our ability to “measure” the sincerity of someone’s tone and body language, maybe it’s our angel whispering to us the warning about the demon that follows various Bundies, or inhabits their bodies.

According to my experience, very bad people often have inexplicable luck. One of those two guys I’ve met and had the impression there’s something seriously dangerously wrong with them, he survived few accidents that would kill any normal human.

So I don’t believe in coincidences. There was the reason why he was saved to do more harm and there was the reason why I was saved to do more good – I hope, I’d hate to die one day and find out I was saved because my purpose was to screw things up :D

At least I wouldn't ever do harm intentionally, and that, the intentional harm and destruction is what I see as "demonic". It's very hard to explain destructive intentions with no spiritual element involved, in my opinion, since even low intelligence should be enough to make anyone constructive out of simple common sense if not out of empathy.

Rant over :D

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I agree with you Helen o A. I had read and heard that for example Hitler seemed to live a charmed life...he survived multiple assassination attempts...at least until the day he took his own life in the bunker (some deny this happened but I've also heard the Russians have his body and have given DNA proof of his death). Sometimes I wonder why God lets really evil people live so long...I guess one day we'll know...

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Hitler is classic example of indestructible destructive man... and it’s not only him, Stalin had to be finished off with a hammer (so says the legend), Castro lives so persistently he now qualifies for a zombie, the former state in which I lived had its own bullet-proof dictator, and so on and on.

We can rationalize and say dictators are constantly surrounded with body guards, ride armoured cars, sleep in literal bunkers, everything they eat and drink was tested (imagine doing that for living), have the best available medical care, they are secured in any possible way, but still they seem just too resistant compared to ordinary folks.

Personally, I’m not religious but when I think of history, I feel like praying :lol: It can’t hurt, unlike demonic ideas and people, regardless if the true nature of their “evil” is clinical, spiritual, or both. Probably it is both.

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The word angel is sort of unique in that if it is applied in context to humans it is rendered messenger and if to a spirit creature it is translated as angel. The Hebrew malakh and the Greek aggelos literally mean "messenger." (Genesis 16:7; 32:3 / James 2:25 / Revelation 22:8)

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