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MissJatti

Nature/God

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I would like to post a topic on GOD,

Do I believe in GOD, I like to think I do, but I’m not to sure.

Only place I have studied GOD and religion was back in school.

There may be supernatural forces at work, or its just NATURE bringing order and balance to the world.

But over the years, I have basic theorized that NATURE is GOD.

NATURE aka GOD, made all animals, including humans with a brain. Since we have brains, we can decide on ourselves. Humans and animals can decide when to eat, what to hunt, where to go to school etc etc. But all the other things in the universe, without a brain, is assisted with NATURE/GOD. For example NATURE/GOD decides which way and how hard the winds blows, also NATURE/GOD decides when and where it will rain. NATURE/GOD even decides it if the pregnant woman is having a boy or girl, and so on and so on.

In a holy book, it states, GOD is one, GOD is the creator, GOD is without fear and without hate. GOD is immortal. GOD is neither born and nor does GOD die.

GOD is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all. Spirit, soul and body, all belong to GOD.

GOD created all beings, animals, birds, creatures, including humans.

GOD is formless. GOD is beyond gender and shape. GOD has no form, no shape, no colour. GOD is beyond these three qualities.

As I kept on reading (over and over) the way region describes GOD, I felt in some sense, they were describing NATURE.

There is even a saying.. “NATURE has a mind of its own” Maybe this is where GOD fits in..

Well if I were to believe in GOD, then I think, that the thing that is all around us, (NATURE) is GOD

Science calls it NATURE, religion calls it GOD

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I would like to post a topic on GOD,

Do I believe in GOD, I like to think I do, but I’m not to sure.

Only place I have studied GOD and religion was back in school.

There may be supernatural forces at work, or its just NATURE bringing order and balance to the world.

But over the years, I have basic theorized that NATURE is GOD.

NATURE aka GOD, made all animals, including humans with a brain. Since we have brains, we can decide on ourselves. Humans and animals can decide when to eat, what to hunt, where to go to school etc etc. But all the other things in the universe, without a brain, is assisted with NATURE/GOD. For example NATURE/GOD decides which way and how hard the winds blows, also NATURE/GOD decides when and where it will rain. NATURE/GOD even decides it if the pregnant woman is having a boy or girl, and so on and so on.

In a holy book, it states, GOD is one, GOD is the creator, GOD is without fear and without hate. GOD is immortal. GOD is neither born and nor does GOD die.

GOD is indescribable, inestimable, indubitable, infallible, intangible, imperishable, immutable, immortal, immaculate, immanent, unconquerable, unique, formless, fearless, deathless, timeless, ageless, compassionate, omnipresent and creator of all. Spirit, soul and body, all belong to GOD.

GOD created all beings, animals, birds, creatures, including humans.

GOD is formless. GOD is beyond gender and shape. GOD has no form, no shape, no colour. GOD is beyond these three qualities.

As I kept on reading (over and over) the way region describes GOD, I felt in some sense, they were describing NATURE.

There is even a saying.. “NATURE has a mind of its own” Maybe this is where GOD fits in..

Well if I were to believe in GOD, then I think, that the thing that is all around us, (NATURE) is GOD

Science calls it NATURE, religion calls it GOD

I like your concept of God, and tend to agree apart from a little of my own meaning also.

Question for you. Now if you beleive God is Nature, then Do you beleive Nature/God, is a force with consious 'thought'. Does Nature really have a mind of its own, or is Nature/God an automatic thing based on course and effect?

Kind Regards,

Me :)

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I think you have a good grip on things... I like how you describe God... sounds good to me ;)

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I think we can contemplate god forever and never figure it out completely, but in doing so we get ever closer to that mysterious 'truth'...

Edit: I say that in response to ideals question. But I know she was asking you.... just my little imput I have all kind of theories though...

Edited by SpiritWriter
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Please accept my apologies for not agreeing with you.

No, Nature is not God. God commands nature which is at God's beck and call. Nature does not have a mind of it's own. That may be a saying, but it is not found in scripture. God is a being, a personality, and has a form. Man is an image that looks like God.

I hope you will learn to discern that anything outside scriptures is not divinely inspired from God to us and is fuller, deeper and richer in understanding God than anything other source. Don't fall for Greek Mythology which had a different god for every aspect of nature.

God bless

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Please accept my apologies for not agreeing with you.

No, Nature is not God. God commands nature which is at God's beck and call. Nature does not have a mind of it's own. That may be a saying, but it is not found in scripture. God is a being, a personality, and has a form. Man is an image that looks like God.

I hope you will learn to discern that anything outside scriptures is not divinely inspired from God to us and is fuller, deeper and richer in understanding God than anything other source. Don't fall for Greek Mythology which had a different god for every aspect of nature.

God bless

Im sorry but I dont agree with you. God is in all things... gods word is not only the bible but all of creation.. religion has been used to take god away from people to some degree.. its is a manipulation tactic by the rulers of the church so that they could get rich off of you and make it so we dont ask any questions that they wanted us to believe god was contained in a tiny book... I know god very well and there is waay more to him (which is also her, I dont always bring that part up, but I did with you right now to ruffle some feathers, dont be mad ruffled feathers arent bad.) Than that... way more to god.. way more

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Im not saying god doesn't command nature though... ;)

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I'm reaching that same conclusion myself, although when I think of nature I think of everything in the natural world, including galaxies, black holes, subatomic particles, etc. I think of it as intelligent energy, and that maybe god was conceived as a way of explaining it. While I personally doubt that god's words are contained in the bible, I don't there's too much distance between god being present in all creation and god being creation. Could they be the same? Is the major difference that of semantics, maybe?

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According to the Bible God can indeed be seen in nature: "[Since] what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:19,20 The verse in context is Paul explaining that even though this it is true God is revealed in nature, man would rather worship nature itself, man himself, or other idols rather than God.

Most Biblical theologians would say that nature is an incomplete revelation of God; you can see power in a hurricane, beauty in a flower or love between a mother animal and it's offspring and that may tell you something of God's divine nature, but not all. Scripture says that Jesus is the embodiment of God and as such we learn more about the nature, love, grace and power of God through Him than by studying nature.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" Colossians 2:9.

"Philip said to [Jesus], “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" John 14: 8,9

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23 (Quoting the prophet Isaiah)

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I'm reaching that same conclusion myself, although when I think of nature I think of everything in the natural world, including galaxies, black holes, subatomic particles, etc. I think of it as intelligent energy, and that maybe god was conceived as a way of explaining it. While I personally doubt that god's words are contained in the bible, I don't there's too much distance between god being present in all creation and god being creation. Could they be the same? Is the major difference that of semantics, maybe?

Myself included Beany, To me Nature implys(IMO) ALL that is. How can a galaxy not be... natural lol.

But I see how one must make that clear. It is very easy to say nature, and only mean the nature of earth.

However as my belief is everything is ONE.. I can't say god is IN creation... he is creation. He is you and I, the birds the bees, the flowers and the trees, the moon up above... Oh yes, and that thing called Love. lol

But as we are expeciencing ourselfs as well ourselfs, then the saying can be he/she is IN all creation.

I agree that of semantics may be the Key...

Kind Regards,

Me :)

Edited by The Id3al Experience
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According to the Bible God can indeed be seen in nature: "[Since] what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:19,20 The verse in context is Paul explaining that even though this it is true God is revealed in nature, man would rather worship nature itself, man himself, or other idols rather than God.

The translation you are quoting has changed the meaning of that verse from the KJV of the Bible, which is older and endorsed with many revivals.

"...the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead..." You can look at nature and see his attributes in nature but you can not see in nature if the Godhead is One or one hundred in the Godhead. "Are clearly seen" is the present tense and it says we are presently seeing His eternal power and Godhead from the account of the creation of the world in Genesis. There male and female were created with a brain, where there is continual impulses of power -- an image the Holy Spirit; and a heart (image of God the Father), and body of flesh, (image of Jesus Christ). They show the Godhead is Triune by looking at the account of Creation. They are separate and separate functions yet they are united inseparable. The flesh is in them and they are in the flesh.

Spirit Writer: It's alright that you don't agree with me. But I was just thinking - - - - - - I agree that God is everywhere; He is inside His children reading their minds. Nature is not.

I don't believe God's word is in all creation or in any of creation. All creation shows God's handiwork and we marvel and glorify Him that He is so intricate beyond man's imagination and the beauty in nature is unsurpassed by any handiwork of man's. But we can only know Him through His word. Jews are the only ones who have been appointed to take God's holy inspired dictation. That gives us discernment about false religions who say the Judeo/Christian Bible is corrupt and their version is correct. The Bible says that God's words are pure words refined in the fire and God promises that HE will keep them. That is proof that God is not going to let His word be lost or corrupt. Thank God man is not left with that awesome responsibility.

God bless us all is my prayer.

Nytol

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I like most of what you said.

According to the Bible God can indeed be seen in nature: "[Since] what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:19,20 The verse in context is Paul explaining that even though this it is true God is revealed in nature, man would rather worship nature itself, man himself, or other idols rather than God.

The translation you are quoting has changed the meaning of that verse from the KJV of the Bible, which is older and endorsed with many revivals.

"...the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead..." You can look at nature and see his attributes in nature but you can not see in nature if the Godhead is One or one hundred in the Godhead. "Are clearly seen" is the present tense and it says we are presently seeing His eternal power and Godhead from the account of the creation of the world in Genesis. There male and female were created with a brain, where there is continual impulses of power -- an image the Holy Spirit; and a heart (image of God the Father), and body of flesh, (image of Jesus Christ). They show the Godhead is Triune by looking at the account of Creation. They are separate and separate functions yet they are united inseparable. The flesh is in them and they are in the flesh.

Spirit Writer: It's alright that you don't agree with me. But I was just thinking - - - - - - I agree that God is everywhere; He is inside His children reading their minds. Nature is not.

I don't believe God's word is in all creation or in any of creation. All creation shows God's handiwork and we marvel and glorify Him that He is so intricate beyond man's imagination and the beauty in nature is unsurpassed by any handiwork of man's. But we can only know Him through His word. Jews are the only ones who have been appointed to take God's holy inspired dictation. That gives us discernment about false religions who say the Judeo/Christian Bible is corrupt and their version is correct. The Bible says that God's words are pure words refined in the fire and God promises that HE will keep them. That is proof that God is not going to let His word be lost or corrupt. Thank God man is not left with that awesome responsibility.

God bless us all is my prayer.

Nytol

Blessings to you too copen. Thankyou for the scripture verse in that version I like it a lot. I agreed with most of what you said but I do hsve to say that I dont think god was absent from the rest of the world when he was revealing himself to the isrealites. God imparted wisdom throughout, because the scriptures have made it so far I feel that we should not disregard them but discern them in our spirit and let god speak to us direct. God speaks to us in many ways not only by reading the bible, in fact it is better to hear directly from god. I see god as a multiplex and I see us as his people evolved, not just jews but all mankind with something to offer each other. We can learn from the greek mythz, the hindus the buddist, native american cultures etc.. as long as we use discernment and are connected to god. To be honest the more I read about other cultures the deeper my relationship with christ became. God speaks to us all and his story hasnt changed its just become broader as we as a people are being united... times are changing. God is still real and wants a relationship with us, he is not descriminating, nor has he ever discriminated, but cross culturally he hasnt been viewed the same in all eyes. I think it is a disservice in some cases to stick to the old teaching just because there is bigotry and control from a higher power (not god but man) glorified in the text and I do think it was purposefully done by religious leaders. I think the text has been preserved but siphered through, rearranged, cut up, with the purpose of seperating man from ourselves, hating each other, and making god far away from us when really hes so near....

But at the same time I appreciate the traditional teaching because it does perform some very necessary purposes, as do other extreme organizations. I say all work together for the good...

Much love . Peace

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And the necessary purposes I speak of is having a structure that introduces and teaches this religion and its application, to know christ and be transformed into his image...

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We can learn from the greek mythz, the hindus the buddist, native american cultures etc.. as long as we use discernment and are connected to god.

discern what from what? And how do you discern?

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i tend really not to have an opinion on such things, however what i would like to know is how that christains and other people in religion often use the human eye as an argument saying how can such an intricate amazing and beautiful thing not have a designer. they believe that such a thing could not be spawned from nothing. this is fair enough however i find it hard to percieve as how is it anymore likely that the idea could be spawned from nothing in the mind of a designer? would ike to know oppions on this if anyone has one that could enlighten me.

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discern what from what? And how do you discern?

Discern in the spirit which was given to me by God. I listen to god in the spirit. I discern what I agree with and what I dont, just like I do with the bible. I am not one to think that I must believe everything someone else believes just because it is said to be christian or comes from the pastor or bible. Reading from other cultures tells the story of mankind. We understand the evolution of thought and myth and glean from what is good from those teachings.

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Myself included Beany, To me Nature implys(IMO) ALL that is. How can a galaxy not be... natural lol.

But I see how one must make that clear. It is very easy to say nature, and only mean the nature of earth.

However as my belief is everything is ONE.. I can't say god is IN creation... he is creation. He is you and I, the birds the bees, the flowers and the trees, the moon up above... Oh yes, and that thing called Love. lol

But as we are expeciencing ourselfs as well ourselfs, then the saying can be he/she is IN all creation.

I agree that of semantics may be the Key...

Kind Regards,

Me :)

Whatever it's called, creation, god, nature, the divine, spirit, maybe it's all the same thing but we use different words for it. The difference for me is the dogma around god or any other name for a deity. All the words around it confuse me instead of bringing clarity, and for me so little of it makes any sense. But I've always sort of felt my way through this kind of stuff, and it's rare that I can read something and have it resonate, or feel true, or sound true. When I find it I hang on to it. For me nature/creation/god/divine/intelligent energy is most important or I'm more aware of it when I experience it instead of thinking about it. It seems like there's no amount of words that would sufficiently describe that experience, and language becomes a barrier instead of a vehicle.

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i tend really not to have an opinion on such things, however what i would like to know is how that christains and other people in religion often use the human eye as an argument saying how can such an intricate amazing and beautiful thing not have a designer. they believe that such a thing could not be spawned from nothing. this is fair enough however i find it hard to percieve as how is it anymore likely that the idea could be spawned from nothing in the mind of a designer? would ike to know oppions on this if anyone has one that could enlighten me.

I'm curious too. There are many other organisms whose eyes are superior to ours. :)

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expanding on that point, another thing that bothers me is the vast variation of all creatures and how mow many there are and how some are very similar whereas others aren't, it seems very randomised for a designer. it seems much more likely that a conscienceless force such as nature would create such a random world rather than a rational designer. and why a designer would create humans such as myself wired in a way that would struggle to comprehend its exsistance.

Edited by dan-paul-mark

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Discern in the spirit which was given to me by God. I listen to god in the spirit. I discern what I agree with and what I dont, just like I do with the bible. I am not one to think that I must believe everything someone else believes just because it is said to be christian or comes from the pastor or bible. Reading from other cultures tells the story of mankind. We understand the evolution of thought and myth and glean from what is good from those teachings.

Sorry but all this sounds like a load of hogwash. If you discern what you agree with from what you don't then it is a discernment that had already taken place in your mind prior to coming across the object in question irrespective of the attributes of the object. This does not make a bit of sense. Where is any logic in that? Basically you are saying that something is good in reality if you agree that it is good and something is bad if you don't. Sorry but the world does not run by your homemade rules. Your perception does not change the reality... it is your own illusion. All you have with you is your own illusion and the object in question retains its attributes irrespective of your illusion.

How do you know that it is God that is speaking to you and not someone/something else? There have been people (and still are) who claim to have listened to "god" (like you claim you do) but turns out that this "god" asked them to do horrendous acts like kidnapping and sacrificing children to some deity and many other such acts. Happens a lot especially in the eastern countries and many times these people do carry out what was commanded to them by this "god". Do you believe in Satan? If so do you believe that he can appear as god to deceive you? Or is it that you have discarded that part of bible too because you don't "agree" with it?

And if you are applying this flawed logic in cherry picking from the scriptures then basically you are saying that God has revealed only what you agree with and what you don't agree with, God never revealed that. This is illogical or rather a deluded belief. It is like you are obliging God to reveal only what you agree with. The fact is, it is cherry picking from the scriptures what suits you and throwing away what does not suit you. It boils down to this.

If that is the case then why follow the scripture at all? Claiming to be so "devout" Christian to even experience the "visions" yet not following the scriptures is hypocritical to say the least.

Yes it is true that God has revealed to man since the begining of time and scriptures affirm that but at the same time these scriptures also mention very clearly that Satan was not sitting idle all this time. He was leading mankind to false religions making them worship false dieties. If you believe in any of the Abrahamic scriptures then you will have to believe in this too.

You claim to like the idea that God is nature in reality, and you also mentioned Hinduism. The same argument is made by Hindus. As you claim to have read about these cultures, can you share your opinion about worshipping the sun, the moon or the stars or even phallic worship that is done in Hinduism?

Can you explain how the same God can censure such worships and approve them at the same time? Isn't it obvious that the sources of these different religions are different?

Times are indeed changing and people are coming closer but not because they are "connected" to God but because people are increasingly rejecting the religions and moving towards secularism and thereby coming closer. You can go ahead and believe whatever you wish to believe but the fact remains that many fundamental beliefs of these religions are mutually exclusive and there is no reconciliation. It is understandable that one should respect beliefs of others and even learn about them and their culture, so that we can all get along. Not that we need to compromise our beliefs for that. It can be achieved without doing that.

Edited by XingWi

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I prefer a charismatic or direct experience of the divine, or to use a Christian term, an epiphany. It dispenses with language, dogma, and often overrides one's preconceptions and fixed ideas. Sometimes the mind isn't the best tool for perception, sometimes the heart and body wisdom inform us without the need for words. This is usually where i find my truth. And no, nature isn't in us, we ARE nature, or a part of her.We are many other things, as well, but we are a product of Mother Nature.

I think what SpiritWriter was saying was that she believes she recognizes what she perceives to be good/ true when she sees it, hears it, reads it, experiences it, instead of the other way around, and relies on her own judgement & perceptions & discernment instead of that of others. This strikes me as a responsible act. and while perception might not change reality, it usually changes the way we see and understand reality. I think the Hindu belief that god is nature might possibly be true, but that has nothing to do with whether they worship the sun, moon, or phallic symbols, although phallic symbols are representative of male regeneration and fertility, and I see nothing wrong with that. The body, any part of the body can be sacred of profane, depending on context, while the sun represents male energy and life-giving light & energy, and the moon is associated with women's wisdom, intuition, and the cycles of the tides, planting, etc. That doesn't strike me as profane either, as the divine is everywhere and in everything, and by honoring all of creation we also honor that which created it.

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I prefer a charismatic or direct experience of the divine, or to use a Christian term, an epiphany. It dispenses with language, dogma, and often overrides one's preconceptions and fixed ideas. Sometimes the mind isn't the best tool for perception, sometimes the heart and body wisdom inform us without the need for words. This is usually where i find my truth. And no, nature isn't in us, we ARE nature, or a part of her.We are many other things, as well, but we are a product of Mother Nature.

You are entitled to your beliefs and your ways of discovering the true God. But the trancendence of God and pantheism are two opposing beliefs and there is no reconciliation. It is a fact.

I think what SpiritWriter was saying was that she believes she recognizes what she perceives to be good/ true when she sees it, hears it, reads it, experiences it, instead of the other way around, and relies on her own judgement & perceptions & discernment instead of that of others. This strikes me as a responsible act. and while perception might not change reality, it usually changes the way we see and understand reality.

Please read her post again. Her words do not impy what you are interpreting here. :)

My point is why people wear the garb of Christianity if they do not follow the scriptures or cherry pick from them to suit their desires. If they believe that the scriptures of Christianity are corrupted then they are free to follow the religion which they believe has intact scriptures. But complaining that the church has "rearranged" and "cut up" scriptures for its own interest and then these very people who complain this do this very act by cherry picking what suits their interest is nothing less than hypocricy.

I think the Hindu belief that god is nature might possibly be true, but that has nothing to do with whether they worship the sun, moon, or phallic symbols, although phallic symbols are representative of male regeneration and fertility, and I see nothing wrong with that. The body, any part of the body can be sacred of profane, depending on context, while the sun represents male energy and life-giving light & energy, and the moon is associated with women's wisdom, intuition, and the cycles of the tides, planting, etc. That doesn't strike me as profane either, as the divine is everywhere and in everything, and by honoring all of creation we also honor that which created it.

Of course that has to do with their nature worshiping. Pantheism is one of the fundamental beliefs of Hinduism. With that only they justify all these worships. Worshipping the sun, the moon or cows or snakes or monkeys or lingam or yoni all this is just an extension of pantheism.

It's not about whether their belief is true or false. But I ask you this, do you see any reconciliation between trancendental monotheism and pantheism? Setting aside for a while the argument which belief is "true", don't you think that the sources of these religions are different?

Edited by XingWi

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Sorry but all this sounds like a load of hogwash. If you discern what you agree with from what you don't then it is a discernment that had already taken place in your mind prior to coming across the object in question irrespective of the attributes of the object. This does not make a bit of sense. Where is any logic in that? Basically you are saying that something is good in reality if you agree that it is good and something is bad if you don't. Sorry but the world does not run by your homemade rules. Your perception does not change the reality... it is your own illusion. All you have with you is your own illusion and the object in question retains its attributes irrespective of your illusion.

I thank god that he has given me good sence . Homemade rules? I dont know about that im just a simple human but im not dumb and im not gonna run around like "im so dumb I cant think for myself, I cant figure anything out, I know god made me but he must have made me retarded cuz what I believe is just illusion." No actually I was born with a brain... God is inside of me. You and nobody can take that away from me. I would be a fool to allow you to make me think that all I know and perceive is an illusion.

How do you know that it is God that is speaking to you and not someone/something else? There have been people (and still are) who claim to have listened to "god" (like you claim you do) but turns out that this "god" asked them to do horrendous acts like kidnapping and sacrificing children to some deity and many other such acts. Happens a lot especially in the eastern countries and many times these people do carry out what was commanded to them by this "god". Do you believe in Satan? If so do you believe that he can appear as god to deceive you? Or is it that you have discarded that part of bible too because you don't "agree" with it?

Ok xi you are getting extreme. If I heard voices telling me to kidnap children or kill people I would know it is satan yes I believe in satan because as you already know ive dealt with demons before... I know that there is darkness and there is light this is not just a physical attribute but a matter of principle as well. God is good. The devil is a destroyer. God is love and the devil is hate. The devil would try to take god away from the believer but that is impossible without gods permission. So far hes had my back and i have faith hes not going anywhere. God is good all the time. I guard my spirit conciously and am in constant communion with the god head through christ. I know the devil can deceive thats why I stay guarded.

And if you are applying this flawed logic in cherry picking from the scriptures then basically you are saying that God has revealed only what you agree with and what you don't agree with, God never revealed that. This is illogical or rather a deluded belief. It is like you are obliging God to reveal only what you agree with. The fact is, it is cherry picking from the scriptures what suits you and throwing away what does not suit you. It boils down to this.

The bible is hella old. God speaks to his people now in present day..do you really think that isnt true? Is god stuck in the bible.. is the promised counselor null and void and all us sinful humans have the capability of hearing in the spirit is the devil... no... god is real my friend. I know you know that please listen to what your saying. .. we all cherry pick from scripture im sure you dont comply 100 percent im not going to get into the age old analogies im sure youve heard it before... god has revealed to me things they dont teach in the churches. Because the religion is so old and has that sheeplike mentality not to think for themselves. I dont feel like im abnormally blessed but like I said before I do have a brain. God didnt give it to me to disregard the thoughts hes given me. This is the mentality I cant stand about the church. If I would listen to you I wouldn't know god at all, id just be trying to know god.

If that is the case then why follow the scripture at all? Claiming to be so "devout" Christian to even experience the "visions" yet not following the scriptures is hypocritical to say the least.

Are you trying to take christianity away from me because I dont fit into your mold. If so you have more problems than your accusing me of having. You shoukd view me as your sister in the lord but your basically accusing me of taking up with the devil. Yes I am a devout christian. Im devout to god and not to man. Religion is made and governed by man. I made my own religion and I know god now better than I have ever before in my life. Praise god and hallelujah.. im very happy about that. You cant take the scriptures away from me either. They'ree just as much mine as they are yours. You take comfort being inside the fence. God has sent me out into the fields beyond the pasture. I took my nose out of the book and got some real spiritual food. In your spiritual walk have you noticed that god doesn't do the same thing in the same way? He is constantly surprising us.. and surprise im not like you.

Dont say I dont follow the scriptures. I do follow scriptures and yes I did have visions...

Yes it is true that God has revealed to man since the begining of time and scriptures affirm that but at the same time these scriptures also mention very clearly that Satan was not sitting idle all this time. He was leading mankind to false religions making them worship false dieties. If you believe in any of the Abrahamic scriptures then you will have to believe in this too.

You claim to like the idea that God is nature in reality, and you also mentioned Hinduism. The same argument is made by Hindus. As you claim to have read about these cultures, can you share your opinion about worshipping the sun, the moon or the stars or even phallic worship that is done in Hinduism?

I am christian. Just because I said I read from other cultures doesn't make me another religion. But reading about them does help me to understand wheee differnt people got thier beliefs from. I believe in the mother god and the father god. I can appreciate how different cultures came up with thier ideas so far as what I have read about them. Like I said before I dont think the true god was seperate from anyone.. they had different names and attributes and some things in my view are evil, and that goes back to the dark and the light and the principalities but I also think somethings about christianity arent right either and that is why we must discern...

I dont worship the sun and moon but I understand how someone would see thier power. I believe god is higher than that but if someone else was brought to a place where that makes sence for them then I say god brought them there and it is for a reason. And phallic worship thats probably a very old custom and if people do that now its probably just for sex but your worried about what I do right... anyway... I think I answered your question.

Can you explain how the same God can censure such worships and approve them at the same time? Isn't it obvious that the sources of these different religions are different?

God is a diverse god. I dont have all the answers but I know there are people in different religions and I belueve god put them there. There are some things from these religions that are missing from christianity and there are somethings from thier religions that are missing what is offered through christianity. I think the time is changing for a coming together in understanding.

Times are indeed changing and people are coming closer but not because they are "connected" to God but because people are increasingly rejecting the religions and moving towards secularism and thereby coming closer. You can go ahead and believe whatever you wish to believe but the fact remains that many fundamental beliefs of these religions are mutually exclusive and there is no reconciliation. It is understandable that one should respect beliefs of others and even learn about them and their culture, so that we can all get along. Not that we need to compromise our beliefs for that. It can be achieved without doing that.

God is in charge of revealing himself. He did so for me so this disconnection your talking about gods responsible for that too... I am not compromising my beliefs. If I did id be bowing down to man and letting him decide which direction I go. I will follow god. You have your way I have mine.... its all good ;)

You can reply if you want I dont mind talking more...

Sorry for the typos

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I thank god that he has given me good sence . Homemade rules? I dont know about that im just a simple human but im not dumb and im not gonna run around like "im so dumb I cant think for myself, I cant figure anything out, I know god made me but he must have made me retarded cuz what I believe is just illusion." No actually I was born with a brain... God is inside of me. You and nobody can take that away from me. I would be a fool to allow you to make me think that all I know and perceive is an illusion.

Never said that all you know is your illusion but the criteria you have with you to discern doesn't change the reality and hence your perception that something is good just because you agree that it is good does not change the reality of what that thing is and in that way it often becomes just an illusion.

Ok xi you are getting extreme. If I heard voices telling me to kidnap children or kill people I would know it is satan yes I believe in satan because as you already know ive dealt with demons before... I know that there is darkness and there is light this is not just a physical attribute but a matter of principle as well. God is good. The devil is a destroyer. God is love and the devil is hate. The devil would try to take god away from the believer but that is impossible without gods permission. So far hes had my back and i have faith hes not going anywhere. God is good all the time. I guard my spirit conciously and am in constant communion with the god head through christ. I know the devil can deceive thats why I stay guarded.

And if that voice told you to embrace all the religions as equally made by the same true God Himself would you still believe that it is god? oh wait... but you already did. But then how do you bring together the mutually exclusives? The devil is the destroyer but also a deceiver so he may not appear as the destroyer. He may very well appear as a benevelont spirit or as an angel of light or even as god.

Are you trying to take christianity away from me because I dont fit into your mold. If so you have more problems than your accusing me of having. You shoukd view me as your sister in the lord but your basically accusing me of taking up with the devil. Yes I am a devout christian. Im devout to god and not to man. Religion is made and governed by man. I made my own religion and I know god now better than I have ever before in my life. Praise god and hallelujah.. im very happy about that. You cant take the scriptures away from me either. They'ree just as much mine as they are yours. You take comfort being inside the fence. God has sent me out into the fields beyond the pasture. I took my nose out of the book and got some real spiritual food. In your spiritual walk have you noticed that god doesn't do the same thing in the same way? He is constantly surprising us.. and surprise im not like you.

Dont say I dont follow the scriptures. I do follow scriptures and yes I did have visions...

I'm not accusing you of following the devil. Yes but I sincerely doubt that the one you are listening to is the true God. It could be anything. Did I make this "mold" or is it something revealed from God Himself. A yardstick to "discern", not because it is something you just "agree" or "disagree" with.

And how did you presume that I haven't walked "beyond the pastures"? I have been exploring all that since 20 years now. And surprise it is not Utopia out there like you think. SW I have seen the fountainheads of these pantheistic beliefs. Yes in action. But you wouldn't care to know where all this is coming from would you, because you wouldn't "agree" with it as you have already "discerned".

I believe god is higher than that but if someone else was brought to a place where that makes sence for them then I say god brought them there and it is for a reason.

Seriously??? Could it be possible that all this is out of their own whims or from an enemy of the trancendent God himself?

And phallic worship thats probably a very old custom and if people do that now its probably just for sex

Then you haven't read other cultures yet, as you claim to have. Then may be it is time to spend some time on that. Yes it is still done and as frequently as in the past, especially in India and you will find these temples in every street corner. And no they don't worship that for sex. You have poor understanding of pantheistic beliefs. As I wrote before in response to beany, all these beliefs are just extensions of pantheism. I mentioned it to make it obvious how shockingly these beliefs appear to be mutually exclusive.

but your worried about what I do right...

Watch what you are saying. That was a very cheap remark. Don't do that again!

God is a diverse god. I dont have all the answers but I know there are people in different religions and I belueve god put them there. There are some things from these religions that are missing from christianity and there are somethings from thier religions that are missing what is offered through christianity. I think the time is changing for a coming together in understanding.

Is it possible that people are coming together in rejecting the religions and God all together? Do a litle survey and you will know the answer. Your over optimism does not change this fact.

On the surface all this looks very enlightened and you might receive a few likes from the community for being so "broad-minded" but the fact is you cannot bring together two mutually exclusive beliefs. I challenge you or any other member here to show that the God of Abrahamic religions is indeed nature. (And not by cherry picking). Trancendental monotheism is by its very definition the polar opposite of pantheism.

While I respect beliefs of other people, but I'm not ready to forsake mine just to please others or to make people to "come together in understanding". If you believe that it is really possible to come together in understanding then good luck with that. Keep trying. :tu:

Edited by XingWi

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You are entitled to your beliefs and your ways of discovering the true God. But the trancendence of God and pantheism are two opposing beliefs and there is no reconciliation. It is a fact.

Please read her post again. Her words do not impy what you are interpreting here. :)

My point is why people wear the garb of Christianity if they do not follow the scriptures or cherry pick from them to suit their desires. If they believe that the scriptures of Christianity are corrupted then they are free to follow the religion which they believe has intact scriptures. But complaining that the church has "rearranged" and "cut up" scriptures for its own interest and then these very people who complain this do this very act by cherry picking what suits their interest is nothing less than hypocricy.

Of course that has to do with their nature worshiping. Pantheism is one of the fundamental beliefs of Hinduism. With that only they justify all these worships. Worshipping the sun, the moon or cows or snakes or monkeys or lingam or yoni all this is just an extension of pantheism.

It's not about whether their belief is true or false. But I ask you this, do you see any reconciliation between trancendental monotheism and pantheism? Setting aside for a while the argument which belief is "true", don't you think that the sources of these religions are different?

No, I think the source is exactly the same. I think the difference is how that source is interpreted, which is heavily influenced by one's cultural biases. Here's a definition of pantheism. Since I see what you call god and I call the divine everywhere and in everything, it works for me. People "worship" various aspects of nature because they see a piece of the divine in it, not because those things are sacred in and of themselves, but because they are an aspect or manifestation of the divine. Pantheism: At its most general, pantheism may be understood positively as the view that God is identical with the cosmos, the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God, or else negatively as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe.

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