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MissJatti

Nature/God

62 posts in this topic

Watch what you are saying. That was a very cheap remark. Don't do that again!

What makes you so sure that it is not you who are deceived xingwi?

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Never said that all you know is your illusion but the criteria you have with you to discern doesn't change the reality and hence your perception that something is good just because you agree that it is good does not change the reality of what that thing is and in that way it often becomes just an illusion.

Why shouldnt I trust my perception of what is good? To be honest I believe I have a pretty good grasp on it. Not only that but I am also able willing and desiring to grow in this area.. all I want is what is good. It seems like you have bought into the mindset that god is outside of us and that we are basically worthless morons. I believe we were created in the image of god, that the kingdom of god is inside of us and that we are all apart of the body of god, we all have our functions and god made me who I am, brought me to where I am, and either gave me every thought or allowed me to think it. I dont understand why you dont think I have the ability to discern... :-/ I guess its because I said I also use discernment when I read the bible. Sorry I just cant swallow what I cant chew... god made me that way and I think its good.

And if that voice told you to embrace all the religions as equally made by the same true God Himself would you still believe that it is god? oh wait... but you already did. But then how do you bring together the mutually exclusives? The devil is the destroyer but also a deceiver so he may not appear as the destroyer. He may very well appear as a benevelont spirit or as an angel of light or even as god.

Yes you are correct I will listen to god as he directs my path and study about other religions. The more I learn the more I can decipher the whole picture and god is the whole picture... if I am going to be deceived then it will be god that is deceiving me and if I must walk through the fire to be refined that is what I'll do. I seek the face of god daily and he is ever present by my side. Why would he forsake me? I am his child! Really xi I should be offended at what your saying.. but I know that you have experienced a lot in the spiritual and you are probably just trying to warn me.. so thank you for that. But be assured, god really is on my side... we are really close, this is NOT the devil.

I'm not accusing you of following the devil. Yes but I sincerely doubt that the one you are listening to is the true God. It could be anything. Did I make this "mold" or is it something revealed from God Himself. A yardstick to "discern", not because it is something you just "agree" or "disagree" with.

Again i can discern and agree with what I want because I have gods spirit within me. Again I should be offended. Your telling me I dont hear from god or know him ;((( .. sorry but shame on you for that... this is what I mean about the mindset of some Christians... this is the reason many dont believe in god... the church would take it god away from his people. This makes me cry truly...

And how did you presume that I haven't walked "beyond the pastures"? I have been exploring all that since 20 years now. And surprise it is not Utopia out there like you think. SW I have seen the fountainheads of these pantheistic beliefs. Yes in action. But you wouldn't care to know where all this is coming from would you, because you wouldn't "agree" with it as you have

Seriously??? Could it be possible that all this is out of their own whims or from an enemy of the trancendent God himself?

Id be interested in hearing more about your story xingwi if you feel like sharing...

Then you haven't read other cultures yet, as you claim to have. Then may be it is time to spend some time on that. Yes it is still done and as frequently as in the past, especially in India and you will find these temples in every street corner. And no they don't worship that for sex. You have poor understanding of pantheistic beliefs. As I wrote before in response to beany, all these beliefs are just extensions of pantheism. I mentioned it to make it obvious how shockingly these beliefs appear to be mutually exclusive.

Yeah your right I havent been reading about it as long as you.. but some of what I have read has been helpful. I will continue to agree that god was not absent over the remainder of the world while he appeared as a pillar of smoke to the isrealites. If that were the case how could we say he is everywhere present at the same time?

Watch what you are saying. That was a very cheap remark. Don't do that again!

You better watch that attitude boy lol...

Just kidding.. but intimidation ? Not a good look dear...

Is it possible that people are coming together in rejecting the religions and God all together? Do a litle survey and you will know the answer. Your over optimism does not change this fact.

I am hopeful

On the surface all this looks very enlightened and you might receive a few likes from the community for being so "broad-minded" but the fact is you cannot bring together two mutually exclusive beliefs. I challenge you or any other member here to show that the God of Abrahamic religions is indeed nature. (And not by cherry picking). Trancendental monotheism is by its very definition the polar opposite of pantheism.

Actually a lot of people on this web site dont agree with my beliefs. I get a double whammy.. athiest cant stand to hear about god and christ and christians cant stand to hear about diversifying religious thought.... oh well at least I have jesus :D

I do believe the god of abraham is also the god of nature... I also believe god has been reguarded by many different names. Its a beautiful day today, it a little chilly but I would love to go down to the lake and watch the birds fly over my head and listen to the waves.. nature brings me closer to god everytime im in it. I love nature. I am apart of nature.. nature really does have A LOT to do with god...

I understand what your saying about monothiesm and polythiesm... me personally I believe in the one true god.. but aparently their are othet dieties...

While I respect beliefs of other people, but I'm not ready to forsake mine just to please others or to make people to "come together in understanding". If you believe that it is really possible to come together in understanding then good luck with that. Keep trying. :tu:

Im not ready to forsake my beliefs either. Thanks for your perspective and your time. I am interested in more of your story. Keep me in mind if you ever want to tell it.

Peace my brother

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Emmaance without trancedenence makes no sense. Nature has a cause, or a beginning. Nothing in the universe is non-contingent, or even nesessary. Everything that has a beginning has a cause, that does not mean there is something that did not have a beginning, that would be God I believe, no beginning so no need for a cause. I would consider my self following panentheism: http://www.theopedia.com/Panentheism

peace

Mark

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Why shouldnt I trust my perception of what is good? To be honest I believe I have a pretty good grasp on it. Not only that but I am also able willing and desiring to grow in this area.. all I want is what is good. It seems like you have bought into the mindset that god is outside of us and that we are basically worthless morons. I believe we were created in the image of god, that the kingdom of god is inside of us and that we are all apart of the body of god, we all have our functions and god made me who I am, brought me to where I am, and either gave me every thought or allowed me to think it. I dont understand why you dont think I have the ability to discern... :-/ I guess its because I said I also use discernment when I read the bible. Sorry I just cant swallow what I cant chew... god made me that way and I think its good.

Yes you are correct I will listen to god as he directs my path and study about other religions. The more I learn the more I can decipher the whole picture and god is the whole picture... if I am going to be deceived then it will be god that is deceiving me and if I must walk through the fire to be refined that is what I'll do. I seek the face of god daily and he is ever present by my side. Why would he forsake me? I am his child! Really xi I should be offended at what your saying.. but I know that you have experienced a lot in the spiritual and you are probably just trying to warn me.. so thank you for that. But be assured, god really is on my side... we are really close, this is NOT the devil.

Again i can discern and agree with what I want because I have gods spirit within me. Again I should be offended. Your telling me I dont hear from god or know him ;((( .. sorry but shame on you for that... this is what I mean about the mindset of some Christians... this is the reason many dont believe in god... the church would take it god away from his people. This makes me cry truly...

Id be interested in hearing more about your story xingwi if you feel like sharing...

Yeah your right I havent been reading about it as long as you.. but some of what I have read has been helpful. I will continue to agree that god was not absent over the remainder of the world while he appeared as a pillar of smoke to the isrealites. If that were the case how could we say he is everywhere present at the same time?

You better watch that attitude boy lol...

Just kidding.. but intimidation ? Not a good look dear...

I am hopeful

Actually a lot of people on this web site dont agree with my beliefs. I get a double whammy.. athiest cant stand to hear about god and christ and christians cant stand to hear about diversifying religious thought.... oh well at least I have jesus :D

I do believe the god of abraham is also the god of nature... I also believe god has been reguarded by many different names. Its a beautiful day today, it a little chilly but I would love to go down to the lake and watch the birds fly over my head and listen to the waves.. nature brings me closer to god everytime im in it. I love nature. I am apart of nature.. nature really does have A LOT to do with god...

I understand what your saying about monothiesm and polythiesm... me personally I believe in the one true god.. but aparently their are othet dieties...

Im not ready to forsake my beliefs either. Thanks for your perspective and your time. I am interested in more of your story. Keep me in mind if you ever want to tell it.

Peace my brother

You can trust your perception in all this if you want to, haven't I acknowledged your right to do so. But you cannot force me to believe what you are doing is safe. Neither can I force you to accept what you are doing is unsafe. Too bad you get offended by someone giving you their honest advice.

About transcendence and pantheism, you can believe whatever you want to but the fact is these are mutually exclusive, as I said before, by their very definition.

It is good to explore, I have done it myself seeking expert theologians from many religions. But have you considered reading all the Abrahamic religions first before exploring Greek, Eastern or other mythologies or atleast alongside with them? You want to see the larger picture trust me you will get to see that.

I have years of spiritual experiences with me, I will share some of those with you if we meet again in another more appropriate thread but for now I would like to mention what I have dicovered with my experiences is that parallel mythologies are not co-incidences. There are intelligent beings out there with global agendas. Perhaphs you will consider this possiblity one day when this religious ecstacy subsides.

I don't look down on your spiritual explorations but I will remind you to be cautious though. Just keep in mind what your mom said. Never talk to strangers. And keep a pepper-spray with you. Might come handy. ;)

Peace.

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No, I think the source is exactly the same. I think the difference is how that source is interpreted, which is heavily influenced by one's cultural biases. Here's a definition of pantheism. Since I see what you call god and I call the divine everywhere and in everything, it works for me. People "worship" various aspects of nature because they see a piece of the divine in it, not because those things are sacred in and of themselves, but because they are an aspect or manifestation of the divine. Pantheism: At its most general, pantheism may be understood positively as the view that God is identical with the cosmos, the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God, or else negatively as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe.

I respect your opinion Beany, but where is reconciliation in that? Isn't the acceptance of this distinction is what is known called trancendence. And if the rejection is pantheism then aren't they mutually exclusive? For some, these different sources are man and god, and for some they are god and satan, and for some they are rival gods, and for some they are two different cultures.

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What makes you so sure that it is not you who are deceived xingwi?

You again!

We've been through this already. Why do you ask when you know my answer while you've already admitted of deceiving yourself? I have told you a hundred times before. They were there to RECRUIT me like they came for you. The only difference, I reached out and pulled off their mask while you went ahead and embraced them. And this did not happen just once. If something is good it does not need to wear a mask to appear bad, so if something wears a mask then it is bound to be deceiving irrespective of whether it appears good or bad. I did not put those masks over them. You might have read a book or two for your "journeys" but I sought real people for that who knew what surrounds us, who knew how to tread with safety because it is not just good out there. It is not just my "self-discovery". I have seen both the good and the bad. Moreover I'm not the one who admitted of seeking "thorazine" when I find out what lies behind, am I? It is you who did that! ;)

Wish you a late happy new year.

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You can trust your perception in all this if you want to, haven't I acknowledged your right to do so. But you cannot force me to believe what you are doing is safe. Neither can I force you to accept what you are doing is unsafe. Too bad you get offended by someone giving you their honest advice.

About transcendence and pantheism, you can believe whatever you want to but the fact is these are mutually exclusive, as I said before, by their very definition.

It is good to explore, I have done it myself seeking expert theologians from many religions. But have you considered reading all the Abrahamic religions first before exploring Greek, Eastern or other mythologies or atleast alongside with them? You want to see the larger picture trust me you will get to see that.

I have years of spiritual experiences with me, I will share some of those with you if we meet again in another more appropriate thread but for now I would like to mention what I have dicovered with my experiences is that parallel mythologies are not co-incidences. There are intelligent beings out there with global agendas. Perhaphs you will consider this possiblity one day when this religious ecstacy subsides.

I don't look down on your spiritual explorations but I will remind you to be cautious though. Just keep in mind what your mom said. Never talk to strangers. And keep a pepper-spray with you. Might come handy. ;)

Peace.

I think you have misconceived all what I have said.. I am not interested in worshiping other gods... far from it.. I see the relativity in religious studies. It fascinates me, it doesn't convert me. So far it has brought me closer to god through christ and I have deeper understanding of who jesus really is. Jesus is my pepper spray!

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I have ready experienced some of what your talking about and have been warned by another sister who ventured to far from christ.. but there is still something missing.. god is still revealing something and I know there is something wrong with present day christianity

Edit: sorry for those that cant relate to what we are talking about. Some people were called to be christians and we share similar experiences that are of the spiritual nature... I know it doesn't make sense to some but thats ok and please dont be mad about that or anything. I only say that because people on this website do get mad about that for some odd reason...

Edited by SpiritWriter

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I respect your opinion Beany, but where is reconciliation in that? Isn't the acceptance of this distinction is what is known called trancendence. And if the rejection is pantheism then aren't they mutually exclusive? For some, these different sources are man and god, and for some they are god and satan, and for some they are rival gods, and for some they are two different cultures.

I'm not getting the question about reconciliation, nor the comment about acceptance of this distinction or even what distinction you're talking about. My direct experience of the divine tells me that there is only one source, and everything flows out of that;that we come into the world with all the innate knowledge we need to be happy, but are somehow convinced that we must look outside ourselves for what we believe we lack or need. It tells me that all thing are connected to one another, we are a small part of a larger whole, that we all have access all the time to what some call god, the divine, spirit, universal intelligence, etc., that that energy/god is within and without. IMHO all the structures, organizations & dogma humans have invented often cause the illusion of separation between them & god. I had little idea of the divine based on words & study, but when I experienced it, I understood at least a small part of it. All the words, I believe, are a way of bringing us to this experience, or describing it, but it is so transcendent that we really have no language for it, except maybe in poetry, or music, or the arts, or mysticism.

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You again!

We've been through this already. Why do you ask when you know my answer while you've already admitted of deceiving yourself? I have told you a hundred times before. They were there to RECRUIT me like they came for you. The only difference, I reached out and pulled off their mask while you went ahead and embraced them. And this did not happen just once. If something is good it does not need to wear a mask to appear bad, so if something wears a mask then it is bound to be deceiving irrespective of whether it appears good or bad. I did not put those masks over them. You might have read a book or two for your "journeys" but I sought real people for that who knew what surrounds us, who knew how to tread with safety because it is not just good out there. It is not just my "self-discovery". I have seen both the good and the bad. Moreover I'm not the one who admitted of seeking "thorazine" when I find out what lies behind, am I? It is you who did that! ;)

Wish you a late happy new year.

Happy belated new year to you to :)

For such a good and enlightened person, you sure twist things up a lot, I wonder if you are doing that on purpose or if it happens to you internally.

I never said I sought thorizine, I said I would if entities started asking me to kill people. See. Sometimes I wonder if you only hear what you want from people. At first I thought it might be a language barrier, but I'm not so sure anymore.

My experiences and knowledge don't come from books, I don't let books... Any books ;) control me... ;)

That's just it, there are no bad masks or faces only fear and fear based teachings. If you don't take the colored goggles off xing wi, how can possibly see properly?

I think I am starting to understand what happened to you now.

Edited by Seeker79

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For such a good and enlightened person, you sure twist things up a lot, I wonder if you are doing that on purpose or if it happens to you internally.

I never said I sought thorizine, I said I would if entities started asking me to kill people. See. Sometimes I wonder if you only hear what you want from people. At first I thought it might be a language barrier, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Oh Seeker, poor Seeker, you are leaving no stone unturned, are you? ;) I knew what you meant about seeking thorazine and that is what I mentioned here. I said it is you who admitted that, not that you actually did it. May be I didn't express it properly. I'm still working on my english, but I have zero problems in understanding. I know that no entity asked you to kill people yet but if they did you would seek thorazine for that, right? This is what you have admitted about your determination to deceive yourself. You are so obstinately fixated on the "only benevolent spirits" thing that even though you know what you are interacting with are real spirits but when you will see their malevolence then you will even go to the extent of seeking psychiatrists to convince yourself that they were not real instead of admitting that atleast some of them can be malevolent. It is very evident who is wearing "colored googles" here, me or you. It is you who are too afraid to remove your "goggles" and see the reality.

My experiences and knowledge don't come from books, I don't let books... Any books ;) control me... ;)

Oh so your "knowledge" comes from his minions then. I get it now.

Just kidding.

That's just it, there are no bad masks or faces only fear and fear based teachings. If you don't take the colored goggles off xing wi, how can possibly see properly?

Fear Fear Fear Fear. I'm bored now. Never once in my life was I afraid of anything when I was there. On the contrary when I found my feet, I was the one chasing them, smashing them, slashing them, plunging them into deep pits of hell. The only fear I have in my heart is the fear of God alone.

I think I am starting to understand what happened to you now.

And I think I've already understood what happened to you. Maybe you should spare some time to contemplate on what happened to you or what they did to you, before attempting to analyze the psyche of others. I'm also open to the possibility that you are just a fraud. Maybe it is not them that are deceiving you, maybe it is just you who is deceiving the community here by making up stories of your "journeys" and "no demons". I'm leaning towards this especially after reading where you have admitted about making false claims of being a messenger of God.

This is a quote from another thread where you have admitted of making false claims of being a messenger of God:

I did a couple of experiments once on another forum. In one I stated in a matter of fact way that i I have an IQ of 160. The amount of negativity that then poored upon me was tremendous. In another forum i stated that I believed I was a messenger from god. I maintained an even logical and scientific tone. I was the center of attention for severely negative attacks, near constant ridicule, and frankly what amounted to bullying. It was fun to tear the bullying group apart logically

But the more reason I used, the more hostile they got.

and then you said next:

how would they know or not if I were an auto dictate with an IQ of 160 or not. Or a messenger from god which I'm not.

If you can go as far as making up such big lies like being a messenger of God, then lying about these tiny "spiritual" jouneys is relatively a much trivial issue for you. It is very possible that you are making up all these stories of your experiences and deceiving everyone here with your claims about "no demons out there", just for "attention". If that is the case Seeker, then congratulations! You have succeded in your "experiment". You recieved all the "attention" that you were seeking.

@Kazahel, if you are reading this, thank you for pointing this out!

Edited by XingWi

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I'm not getting the question about reconciliation, nor the comment about acceptance of this distinction or even what distinction you're talking about. My direct experience of the divine tells me that there is only one source, and everything flows out of that;that we come into the world with all the innate knowledge we need to be happy, but are somehow convinced that we must look outside ourselves for what we believe we lack or need. It tells me that all thing are connected to one another, we are a small part of a larger whole, that we all have access all the time to what some call god, the divine, spirit, universal intelligence, etc., that that energy/god is within and without. IMHO all the structures, organizations & dogma humans have invented often cause the illusion of separation between them & god. I had little idea of the divine based on words & study, but when I experienced it, I understood at least a small part of it. All the words, I believe, are a way of bringing us to this experience, or describing it, but it is so transcendent that we really have no language for it, except maybe in poetry, or music, or the arts, or mysticism.

By distinction, I meant what you mentioned here:

Pantheism: At its most general, pantheism may be understood positively as the view that God is identical with the cosmos, the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God, or else negatively as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe.

And by reconciliation, I meant this:

do you see any reconciliation between trancendental monotheism and pantheism?

I see you are expressing your opinion about the common source and actually that was only what I asked you before. But the problem is, other "dogmas" don't accept it as a common source. But again in a way, calling them "dogmas" itself is attributing a different (lets call it a secondary) source. And that is why I said before, for some these sources are god and man, and for some these are different cultures. Reconciliation, well that is a big problem because they are by their very definition mutually exclusive. I do understand your view here. Thank you for sharing your opinion. :)

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sorry for those that cant relate to what we are talking about. Some people were called to be christians and we share similar experiences that are of the spiritual nature... I know it doesn't make sense to some but thats ok and please dont be mad about that or anything. I only say that because people on this website do get mad about that for some odd reason...

Don't worry too much about these people, they are digging their graves with their own hands. They say we are decieved, turns out most of them are deceived themselves or maybe even frauds.

We don't just share similar spiritual experiences but also good intentions, except for some differences. But sadly some others are trying to cash in on these differences. Don't worry, I won't let them have it. ;)

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Oh Seeker, poor Seeker, you are leaving no stone unturned, are you? ;) I knew what you meant about seeking thorazine and that is what I mentioned here. I said it is you who admitted that, not that you actually did it. May be I didn't express it properly. I'm still working on my english, but I have zero problems in understanding. I know that no entity asked you to kill people yet but if they did you would seek thorazine for that, right? This is what you have admitted about your determination to deceive yourself. You are so obstinately fixated on the "only benevolent spirits" thing that even though you know what you are interacting with are real spirits but when you will see their malevolence then you will even go to the extent of seeking psychiatrists to convince yourself that they were not real instead of admitting that atleast some of them can be malevolent. It is very evident who is wearing "colored googles" here, me or you. It is you who are too afraid to remove your "goggles" and see the reality.

Oh so your "knowledge" comes from his minions then. I get it now.

Just kidding.

Fear Fear Fear Fear. I'm bored now. Never once in my life was I afraid of anything when I was there. On the contrary when I found my feet, I was the one chasing them, smashing them, slashing them, plunging them into deep pits of hell. The only fear I have in my heart is the fear of God alone.

And I think I've already understood what happened to you. Maybe you should spare some time to contemplate on what happened to you or what they did to you, before attempting to analyze the psyche of others. I'm also open to the possibility that you are just a fraud. Maybe it is not them that are deceiving you, maybe it is just you who is deceiving the community here by making up stories of your "journeys" and "no demons". I'm leaning towards this especially after reading where you have admitted about making false claims of being a messenger of God.

This is a quote from another thread where you have admitted of making false claims of being a messenger of God:

and then you said next:

If you can go as far as making up such big lies like being a messenger of God, then lying about these tiny "spiritual" jouneys is relatively a much trivial issue for you. It is very possible that you are making up all these stories of your experiences and deceiving everyone here with your claims about "no demons out there", just for "attention". If that is the case Seeker, then congratulations! You have succeded in your "experiment". You recieved all the "attention" that you were seeking.

@Kazahel, if you are reading this, thank you for pointing this out!

Oh xingwi, here we go with the preaching and digging, I chose a handle once ( a messengerfromgod, or amessengerofgod or something like that) as a social experiment... Yes I have a degree in a social science and am interested in such things. I represented myself in the same exact context that I do here, and the handle alone brought the forum down upon me. It was quite a sight. ( I never wrote the paper, Mabey I will yet, but it was going to be titled "the Christ reaction") There was no dishonesty what so ever. Just some of the things that I know for myself that I believe are indeed divinely inspired. But hey you have the habit of reading into what you want and then misrepresenting others either knowingly or based on your selective reading.

Proof?

Read your own statement and tell me how anyone was supposed to inturpret it differently.

". I have seen both the good and the bad. Moreover I'm not the one who admitted of seeking "thorazine" when I find out what lies behind, am I? It is you who did that"

Aaaaakkkkkk you and kaz have got me doing it... Bringing up old statements and harping on them like an old maried couple and lawyering for preceived discrepancies to build straw men... No thanks count me out of the politics.

I don't think you are a lier about your experiences xingwi, I know better. More than you may realize.

You may not feel the same way about me, but that's your perogative.

I have legitimate proof that I have at least experienced enough to help others, and some have testified in the form of thank you notes. I do, however, think you are being less than virtuouse in your attempts to argue your points. I know you know better than to attack the person instead of the arguments. More politics.

I do know what happened with you xingwi, you have a talented mind but have become mired in your demonology and religous dogmas. Our altered states are interpreted through the goggles of our egos. Your busy fighting demons because ultimately that's the goggles you ware. I see it all the time. I don't fault you to much though. Fundamentalist meets astral traveler inside of one person. That is a sure fire recipe for all kinds of demonic visions. I think you have done quite well with your defense mechanisms. I hope the things I say might help you look critically at your situation some day. I only mean the best I assure you. The problem with delusion is that information to the contrary becomes incorporated into It. Then if you toss a little cognitive dissidence on top of it, then you have recipes for things like witch trials, holy wars, and suicide bombers. The dullusional starts to demonized everything contradictory to the delusion. Just look how you have quit literally demonized me. I would even guess that within that darkness you are thinking this very moment, that I am channeling a demon this very moment.

Anyway. See you later my friend, I do have a little demon in me right now it's called the "cruise ship" flu, and it has makeing worship the false porcelain god for the last couple of days.

Take care. I'll keep my benevolent spirits and you can keep your demons. It's not a fair trade for you, but I have tried.

Edited by Seeker79

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Oh xingwi, here we go with the preaching and digging, I chose a handle once ( a messengerfromgod, or amessengerofgod or something like that) as a social experiment... Yes I have a degree in a social science and am interested in such things. I represented myself in the same exact context that I do here, and the handle alone brought the forum down upon me. It was quite a sight. ( I never wrote the paper, Mabey I will yet, but it was going to be titled "the Christ reaction") There was no dishonesty what so ever. Just some of the things that I know for myself that I believe are indeed divinely inspired. But hey you have the habit of reading into what you want and then misrepresenting others either knowingly or based on your selective reading.

Proof?

Read your own statement and tell me how anyone was supposed to inturpret it differently.

". I have seen both the good and the bad. Moreover I'm not the one who admitted of seeking "thorazine" when I find out what lies behind, am I? It is you who did that"

Aaaaakkkkkk you and kaz have got me doing it... Bringing up old statements and harping on them like an old maried couple and lawyering for preceived discrepancies to build straw men... No thanks count me out of the politics.

I don't think you are a lier about your experiences xingwi, I know better. More than you may realize.

You may not feel the same way about me, but that's your perogative.

I have legitimate proof that I have at least experienced enough to help others, and some have testified in the form of thank you notes. I do, however, think you are being less than virtuouse in your attempts to argue your points. I know you know better than to attack the person instead of the arguments. More politics.

I do know what happened with you xingwi, you have a talented mind but have become mired in your demonology and religous dogmas. Our altered states are interpreted through the goggles of our egos. Your busy fighting demons because ultimately that's the goggles you ware. I see it all the time. I don't fault you to much though. Fundamentalist meets astral traveler inside of one person. That is a sure fire recipe for all kinds of demonic visions. I think you have done quite well with your defense mechanisms. I hope the things I say might help you look critically at your situation some day. I only mean the best I assure you. The problem with delusion is that information to the contrary becomes incorporated into It. Then if you toss a little cognitive dissidence on top of it, then you have recipes for things like witch trials, holy wars, and suicide bombers. The dullusional starts to demonized everything contradictory to the delusion. Just look how you have quit literally demonized me. I would even guess that within that darkness you are thinking this very moment, that I am channeling a demon this very moment.

Anyway. See you later my friend, I do have a little demon in me right now it's called the "cruise ship" flu, and it has makeing worship the false porcelain god for the last couple of days.

Take care. I'll keep my benevolent spirits and you can keep your demons. It's not a fair trade for you, but I have tried.

Yeah now that your lies have been exposed, sure you will claim that you have a degree in social science or whatever to legitimize your action. Who knows what your actual degree is. The only thing people here know for sure is that you have yourself admitted of making up lies about being a prophet. And if you can make up so huge lies then making up lies about these little spiritual journeys will be no big deal for you.

And for argument's sake lets assume that you do have a degree in social sciences, but how can the members in these forums ever be sure that you are still not doing all these "experiments" on them here. Irrespective of whether you have degree in social sciences, can people here ever trust you with your claims. Whether you are a fraud or an experimenter does not matter anymore.

Besides, if it was indeed your experiment like you claim then it should belong to psychology a very specific field of social sciences but from what you have claimed earlier in other threads:

I'm educated degrees in economics, finance, with minors in libral arts and acounting.

I have a degree in economics and could argue many virtues of trade and utility,

It is highly improbable that someone who selects subjects like economics finance and acounting that exclusively deal with economics itself would ever choose psychology for liberal arts. So I seriously doubt you have a degree in psychology. I know that you will now make another new claim about your degrees to patch up this lie itself but the only thing people can know for sure out of all this is that you have yourself admitted of making up lies; for "experiment" or not, it does not matter.

And it is not a personal attack Seeker79. I want to make a point that you are no longer reliable. And people here should know all this so that they can be cautious of your devious plans to recruit them. It is not a personal attack, it is unmasking. And it is my duty to unmask you for the sake of human fraternity so people do not fall in your trap. Is it less virtuous of me to fulfill my obligation? Am I the one twisting things or selectively reading here or making up straw men or you are the one changing your claims in every next post, about all this? Let people decide for themselves.

Of course you won't discuss anything further because now you have a flu. And something like this happens everytime time we "debate". You totally evaded answering my questions here in page 122 of How do I invite evil spirits thread. And this hasn't happened in just one thread but numerous times in other threads. Every time I'm about to prove you wrong, you slip away. And when I ask you about it, you say you became "apathetic". Then again after a few days you pop in some another thread out of nowhere then taunt me into argument and when I respond to you, you slip away again. If you are really that "apathetic" as you claim to be then why do you care to start these arguments in all these random threads at all? Or is it that you are just stalking me around and taunting me to study my behavior as one of your "experiments"? And seriously, now after reading about your "experiments" it is I who have become apathetic. Note this down in your "experiments journal", how to exhaust opponents in debates by using evasive tactics and without discussing anything logically. I will formally attest your "paper" as one of your subjects in your "trials", when it is published.

Edited by XingWi

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Yeah now that your lies have been exposed, sure you will claim that you have a degree in social science or whatever to legitimize your action. Who knows what your actual degree is. The only thing people here know for sure is that you have yourself admitted of making up lies about being a prophet. And if you can make up so huge lies then making up lies about these little spiritual journeys will be no big deal for you.

And for argument's sake lets assume that you do have a degree in social sciences, but how can the members in these forums ever be sure that you are still not doing all these "experiments" on them here. Irrespective of whether you have degree in social sciences, can people here ever trust you with your claims. Whether you are a fraud or an experimenter does not matter anymore.

Besides, if it was indeed your experiment like you claim then it should belong to psychology a very specific field of social sciences but from what you have claimed earlier in other threads:

It is highly improbable that someone who selects subjects like economics finance and acounting that exclusively deal with economics itself would ever choose psychology for liberal arts. So I seriously doubt you have a degree in psychology. I know that you will now make another new claim about your degrees to patch up this lie itself but the only thing people can know for sure out of all this is that you have yourself admitted of making up lies; for "experiment" or not, it does not matter.

And it is not a personal attack Seeker79. I want to make a point that you are no longer reliable. And people here should know all this so that they can be cautious of your devious plans to recruit them. It is not a personal attack, it is unmasking. And it is my duty to unmask you for the sake of human fraternity so people do not fall in your trap. Is it less virtuous of me to fulfill my obligation? Am I the one twisting things or selectively reading here or making up straw men or you are the one changing your claims in every next post, about all this? Let people decide for themselves.

Of course you won't discuss anything further because now you have a flu. And something like this happens everytime time we "debate". You totally evaded answering my questions here in page 122 of How do I invite evil spirits thread. And this hasn't happened in just one thread but numerous times in other threads. Every time I'm about to prove you wrong, you slip away. And when I ask you about it, you say you became "apathetic". Then again after a few days you pop in some another thread out of nowhere then taunt me into argument and when I respond to you, you slip away again. If you are really that "apathetic" as you claim to be then why do you care to start these arguments in all these random threads at all? Or is it that you are just stalking me around and taunting me to study my behavior as one of your "experiments"? And seriously, now after reading about your "experiments" it is I who have become apathetic. Note this down in your "experiments journal", how to exhaust opponents in debates by using evasive tactics and without discussing anything logically. I will formally attest your "paper" as one of your subjects in your "trials", when it is published.

Hahaha xingwi you get funnier by the post brother, economics is a SOCIAL SCIENCE, but if you don't know anything about it ( which you clearly dont), I'm not sure you would know that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science

Your not informing anyone of anything other than your silliness brother. I'm sorry but no matter who the fundamentalist is, they always attack when cornered. You are no different.

By the way I way the only education I have in psychology is auto dictation ( other than a class in human sexuality), but economics is basically the study of human choice, it has a strong psychological connection... If you knew anything about markets, you might realize this. I have looked into getting a transpersonal psychology degree but I don't have the time and I can't really justify spending the money ( its very expensive) since I will never work for any body.

Anyway. I'm feeling better thank you,

Edited by Seeker79

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Hahaha xingwi you get funnier by the post brother, economics is a SOCIAL SCIENCE, but if you don't know anything about it ( which you clearly dont), I'm not sure you would know that.

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Social_science

Your not informing anyone of anything other than your silliness brother. I'm sorry but no matter who the fundamentalist is, they always attack when cornered. You are no different.

By the way I way the only education I have in psychology is auto dictation ( other than a class in human sexuality), but economics is basically the study of human choice, it has a strong psychological connection... If you knew anything about markets, you might realize this. I have looked into getting a transpersonal psychology degree but I don't have the time and I can't really justify spending the money ( its very expensive) since I will never work for any body.

Anyway. I'm feeling better thank you,

When did I say economics is not social science?! Even a 5th grader knows that economics is among social sciences. See who is twisting things here and making straw man fallacies? I NEVER said economics is not a field of social sciences, quote where I said that! I said if it was indeed an experiment and not fraud, then your experiment was from psychology (a very specific field of social sciences that is not your degree) and not economics (again a specific field of social sciences and your actual degree as per your previous claims).

Seeker79, I am 100% sure you understood what I meant by that, yet you are misrepresenting it all to make my position look weak. But sorry my friend that is not happening.

Allow me to demonstrate to others how this discussion proceeded. :)

First, you justified your "experiment" by claiming that you have a degree in "social sciences" and that you are interested in "such things".

I chose a handle once ( a messengerfromgod, or amessengerofgod or something like that) as a social experiment... Yes I have a degree in a social science and am interested in such things.

Here you purposefully avoided mentioning economics and instead mentioned just "social sciences" (a vague general term that encompasses psychology and economics and other fields) to fool people into thinking that you probably took psychology (a specific field of social sciences) at the same time very slyly avoiding the blame from others who knew you had earlier claimed about your degree to be economics that you are altering your claims here.

Therefore I said:

Besides, if it was indeed your experiment like you claim then it should belong to psychology a very specific field of social sciences but from what you have claimed earlier in other threads:

I'm educated degrees in economics, finance, with minors in libral arts and acounting.

I have a degree in economics and could argue many virtues of trade and utility,

It is highly improbable that someone who selects subjects like economics finance and acounting that exclusively deal with economics itself would ever choose psychology for liberal arts. So I seriously doubt you have a degree in psychology.

Seeker79, If I wasn't aware that both economics and psychology are "specific" fields of social sciences then why would I mention the phrase "a very specific field of social sciences" for psychology at all. I mentioned that phrase only to make distinction between the two: economics and psychology which fall under the generall field social sciences. It is very evident what I meant there yet you tried to misrepresent my position.

So now that you have admitted that psychology is not your degree then your experiment was infact not related to your particular field "economics". In that case, out of the two possibilities that you are either an experimenter or a fraud, only one option remains; that you are indeed a fraud. You can now claim that economics has strong psychological connection etc. but if you look at it that way then every field of study in this world has "psychologcal connection" in some way or the other. Seeker79, your claims are just futile attemtps in justifying that your "experiment" belonged to your field but the fact is it did not belong to your field "economics" and it had nothing to do with it. So that leaves all of us with only one option: YOU ARE A FRAUD INDEED. Thank you so much for clearing that up. :)

Watch out Seeker! it is a quick sand, the more you struggle the more you sink. ;)

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I thought the OP was interesting and people would have a lot to say about it, can we get back to it? We're so far off topic now we might as well be in Pluto.

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I thought the OP was interesting and people would have a lot to say about it, can we get back to it? We're so far off topic now we might as well be in Pluto.

You are correct of course beany I'm sorry... I will attempt to ignore ignorant personal attacks in the future. Thanks for reminding me.

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You are correct of course beany I'm sorry... I will attempt to ignore ignorant personal attacks in the future. Thanks for reminding me.

Or maybe you should attempt to stop being an obsessed stalker and taunting people into arguments. Or how about we both put each other on ignore.

here beany

http://phrontistery.info/worship.html

take it from here. I'm exhausted.

Edited by XingWi

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Or maybe you should attempt to stop being an obsessed stalker and taunting people into arguments. Or how about we both put each other on ignore.

here beany

http://phrontistery.info/worship.html

take it from here. I'm exhausted.

I don't see Seeker as an obsessed stalker, or one who taunts people into arguments. We are each responsible for our own behaviors, and it seems you willingly engaged in dialogue with him, just as he engaged with you. You don't seem to be a person whom anyone could force to do anything against your will. Thanks for the link, though I'm not sure why it was provided. I think it regard to any spiritual tradition, the use of symbols is common. Cultures that include the yoni & lingam in their spiritual practices are not worshiping the sex organs, instead they are recognizing the differences and complimentary aspects of male & female energy. Symbols are a physical representation of ideas or concepts, which are metaphysical in nature. There are those who see these symbols as literal, when they are not. As for reconciliation, it's not necessary to my spiritual life. I belong to no religion or tradition. My practice is to let spirit inform me, and hope I'm aware and fully conscious when that happens, and understand the intention & meaning. Best wishes to you.

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I don't see Seeker as an obsessed stalker, or one who taunts people into arguments. We are each responsible for our own behaviors, and it seems you willingly engaged in dialogue with him, just as he engaged with you. You don't seem to be a person whom anyone could force to do anything against your will. Thanks for the link, though I'm not sure why it was provided. I think it regard to any spiritual tradition, the use of symbols is common. Cultures that include the yoni & lingam in their spiritual practices are not worshiping the sex organs, instead they are recognizing the differences and complimentary aspects of male & female energy. Symbols are a physical representation of ideas or concepts, which are metaphysical in nature. There are those who see these symbols as literal, when they are not. As for reconciliation, it's not necessary to my spiritual life. I belong to no religion or tradition. My practice is to let spirit inform me, and hope I'm aware and fully conscious when that happens, and understand the intention & meaning. Best wishes to you.

If someone comes here and out of all the participants picks me and asks me questions that imply that I'm deceived, then I will be forced to respond. Anyway back on topic...

It happens with every single religion in the world (including Christianity) that, in a certain era, the followers find trouble in presenting certain concepts/rituals to the world and hence they start interpreting things in a new way that can be presented to others, although the ancestors did not interpret them that way. Some of what you said is indeed true but not universal. Live cow is worshipped today and is considered sacred and is not a symbol. Cow urine is drunk as a form of worship as a ritual, again not a symbol and the urine itself is considered sacred literally. Live snakes are worshipped and their dens are made temples and again not symbols. There is a specific small community in digambara jains where the naked ascetics known as munis are worshiped and some of the religious rituals are directed to their penises (not in all digambara jains and occurs very rarely but it does occur in some regions). Going a step further on the darker side, aghoris perform religious rituals with dead bodies and worship real skulls and bones again not a symbol, a specific art of tantra know as left-hand tantra in which idols are immersed in human urine and feces and then worshipped, urine and feces again not a symbol. In the last two examples the concept is more like rival gods or rival spirits etc. and the worshippers deliberately choose the dark side.

In my opinion, such worships/rituals are just a sort of mid-phase to the opposite side. And by opposite I mean deliberate desecration of the image of God or an insult to Him. I know many here do not believe in the light-dark concept but I do. You are of course entitled to disagree or interpret the things I mentioned in a way that makes sense to you. And I will do it in a way that makes sense to me. Although I see you tend to look at things in a bit overly positive manner and this is a compliment. But I'm happy to embrace the title of narrow minded fundamentalist for now. :D

Maybe we will discuss more on this someday. Until then...

Take care.

Edited by XingWi

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To me, God would have to be greater than just the sum total of the natural world, he would have to be above and beyond everything that we know or could ever hope to know. He is the ALL in ALL, or as the bible puts it the I AM.

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there will always be odd and extreme religious practices, but that's not the norm by which any particular religion should be judged. In regard to my optimism, well, I have a firm partnership with spirit. If I come to harm it will be because of my own stupidity than that of spirit. I trust implicitly, and have never personally run into anything that I perceived as negative or harmful, and I've run into a lot of things. I'm not saying that negative entities don't exist, just that I've never personally experienced them, nor do I expect to. I trust in the loving arms of divinity/intelligent energy and live free of fear.

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there will always be odd and extreme religious practices, but that's not the norm by which any particular religion should be judged. In regard to my optimism, well, I have a firm partnership with spirit. If I come to harm it will be because of my own stupidity than that of spirit. I trust implicitly, and have never personally run into anything that I perceived as negative or harmful, and I've run into a lot of things. I'm not saying that negative entities don't exist, just that I've never personally experienced them, nor do I expect to. I trust in the loving arms of divinity/intelligent energy and live free of fear.

Im glad beany... there are negative entities though... there is a lot of diversity in the physical as well as the spiritual. Its hard to imagine the jungle if youve been on a cold mountain all your life for example...

Edit...Or a better example its hard to imagine a robber creeping into your house while your asleep if youve always had armed guards at the entry ways... sounds like youve always been protected... I have too, but ive seen a little bit of it. :) :)

God is good ;)

Edited by SpiritWriter

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