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Lilly

Other side of gun ownership

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Well it does say more people are killed by accidents with guns then people killing people with guns, and what if there were more then one instuder would she have got enough rounds to have scare them away,and there so many cases where a person shoots at a intruder in their house but when the intruder runs out of the house and the person chases the intuder with the gun, police on call will shoot the person with the gun, there`s really no easy answers to all this gun control.All I know is everyone now days has a gun and you can`t take away the second amendment,The problems is you can try and take the guns away, but the bad guys will always get them. ,its seems like now days were still living in the ancient wild wild west.:)only more people are mentaly unsabled.

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Well it does say more people are killed by accidents with guns then people killing people with guns, and what if there were more then one instuder would she have got enough rounds to have scare them away,and there so many cases where a person shoots at a intruder in their house but when the intruder runs out of the house and the person chases the intuder with the gun, police on call will shoot the person with the gun, there`s really no easy answers to all this gun control.All I know is everyone now days has a gun and you can`t take away the second amendment,The problems is you can try and take the guns away, but the bad guys will always get them. ,its seems like now days were still living in the ancient wild wild west.:)only more people are mentaly unsabled.

I would really like to have an example of when this has happened, if you would be so kind. FYI, anyone that has a taken a course on gun safety, or to get a carry permit, knows that you do not shoot if someone is running away from you. You are no longer in any danger and it is considered accessive force or murder.

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Well it does say more people are killed by accidents with guns then people killing people with guns, and what if there were more then one instuder would she have got enough rounds to have scare them away,and there so many cases where a person shoots at a intruder in their house but when the intruder runs out of the house and the person chases the intuder with the gun, police on call will shoot the person with the gun, there`s really no easy answers to all this gun control.All I know is everyone now days has a gun and you can`t take away the second amendment,The problems is you can try and take the guns away, but the bad guys will always get them. ,its seems like now days were still living in the ancient wild wild west.:)only more people are mentaly unsabled.

Yeah... more mentally unstable people. A population hooked on GOV drugs. Go figure.

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I would really like to have an example of when this has happened, if you would be so kind. FYI, anyone that has a taken a course on gun safety, or to get a carry permit, knows that you do not shoot if someone is running away from you. You are no longer in any danger and it is considered accessive force or murder.

There was one I was reading but can`nt find it , is where this old man chased an intruder out of his house with a gun, but when he went out on his lawn waving the gun, the police came and shot him dead thinking he was the intruder, I thought how awful.:(

Here`s one case in the home..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/phoenix-family-lawsuit-cops-shot-homeowner-intruder/story?id=8756441

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I had an interesting conversation today with a girlfriend who works for the the district attorney. She's a paralegal. She handles public information requests, prepares documents for trial, etc... Her job is more or less to read police reports, redact them if necessary, then send them out to whoever needs them. More or less she reads every police report in the city.

In all her years of working at the regional jusitice center, in a large metropoitian area, she hasn't read one police report where a gun owner successfully defended their home with a gun. She said if it happens, then it's happening without the police ever being notified. She reads about a lot of gang violence, accidents with guns, suicides, but the vast majority of the gun related reports she reads are domestic violence with a gun.

The topic came up because she'd been reading a report about a middle aged guy with a gun, who had no record, who had blown 4 giant holes though his wall, into his neighbors apartment narrowly missing the couples toddler. He was defending his home... from invisible mummies (that's what he told the police!) The police did take his firearms, 3 of them, and hauled him off to jail. Three days later, the mummy hunter was back at home chasing the demons in his mind.

So I asked her if he'll get his guns back and she said she didn't know, but it was possible he could. And then I asked her if he would get mental help, and she said no, he likely would not.

Here's my assessment... there aren't enough laws in place to keep guns out of a mentally ill man's hands. or an abusers hands, or a gang members hands, or even keeping them away from stupid and irresponsible people. Two, there aren't enough resouces and laws to help mentally ill people and people who are filled with anger and hate. The end.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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It would depend heavily on the area! I know very few people that don't have guns and most of them have a lot of kids running in and out of the house. When our outbuilding was broken into and tools were stolen I was home. I had the police on the phone in one hand and in the other I had a .45 with a bead, through the kitchen window, on one of the guys that was a lookout. The first thing the cop said when he showed up was, "You do have a gun don't you?" It wasn't really a question because he was nodding when he said it. I didn't know how many of them were back there and my life wasn't in danger so I didn't confront them, but I was ready in case they did try and get into the house. I was furious to no end, but I would not pull a gun on someone for a few hundred dollars worth of tools and possibly endanger myself.

This is the sort of impression I have been given...I am not against it, purely because IF I were in your possition on would do everything in my powers to defend my family and property.

BUT, although I have come from an inner London area were guns were the street gangs preference as well as knives, it did not often affect the non gang members households. Do not get me wrong, gun crime has not been pretty here either, but no where near what you have in the States.

I have been brought up to keep a baseball bat in the right place for any unwelcome intruders and so far it has worked well enough without having to do any serious harm where I WOULD get arrested.

I do believe that once guns are allowed to be kept in the home legally tucked in the draw along side unwanted household bills, then we in England would be just going backwards in preventing gun crime.

But where you have a country were the law all carry guns, then the criminal feels justified to carry one too, hence so does the honest householder.....it goes on and on and on.

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Not if you have a responsible, well adjusted child.

I seriously don't believe that parents are unbiased enough to make that call, nor do I believe that a 15 year old kid should have access to firearms and ammo simply because the parents think it'll be ok. No parent thinks that it won't be ok if they leave they're gun easily accessible---if they did, they wouldn't do it. They make an assumption, and then sometimes that assumption is worn.

But, let's go with your premise for a moment, that if you have a responsible, well adjusted child its ok. Does that also apply to a 12 year old responsible, well adjusted child? How about 10? 8? At what age is it no longer ok on any case and why?

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You know there's a big difference between a kid who thinks he knows how to handle a gun and a kid who is taught well how to handle one. There is also the matter of how responsible the parents are and how they've reared their kid. Then there is the matter of responsible parents knowing wether or not their kid is sensible enough to be taught and involved with the gun in the first place.

I think for the most part that responsible legal gun owners far outweigh irresponsible ones so I don't think the former should be scalded for the acts of idiots. Most times when you hear on the news of a kid getting ahold of a gun in the wrong way it's because of an irresponsible parent who has illegal guns lying around. It happens in the hood all the time.

Are you serious? Now, when a kid accidentally shoots himself with his parents gun, the gun was illegal? Where on Earth did you get that from? Please, back up that statement or admit you pulled it out of your ass.

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Not if you have a responsible, well adjusted child.

The majority of parents believe they have a well adjusted child, many a story out there where there have been gun deaths and the parent did not know their child was involved in any thing like that....."my child was always so good"!

Maybe they were, but if one member of their group is carrying a gun, then thats one too many. The parent of the "responsible" child is not always fully aware of what the friends around them are up to.

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I seriously don't believe that parents are unbiased enough to make that call,

Some may not be but many are. You can have your nanny state attitude if you want but I don't think that neither you nor the gov should be the judge of that without justified suspicion.

Are you serious? Now, when a kid accidentally shoots himself with his parents gun, the gun was illegal? Where on Earth did you get that from? Please, back up that statement or admit you pulled it out of your ass.

I've seen it many times on local news. I don't know of any specifics to look up but I certainly didn't pull it out of my ass. I ididn't say always. I said many times because contrary to your belief most legal gun owners are responsible.

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Some may not be but many are. You can have your nanny state attitude if you want but I don't think that neither you nor the gov should be the judge of that without justified suspicion.

I've seen it many times on local news. I don't know of any specifics to look up but I certainly didn't pull it out of my ass. I ididn't say always. I said many times because contrary to your belief most legal gun owners are responsible.

You say that... but I get the feeling that we differ in our opinion of what responsible really means.

And if you're going to talk to me about nanny state, then first go petition your government to remove age restrictions from everything. A mature 12 year old should be allowed to drive if the parents feel its ok, hmm? With parental permission, 10 year old Johnny should be able to bring a gun to school too. Is that what you're really advocating?

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The majority of parents believe they have a well adjusted child, many a story out there where there have been gun deaths and the parent did not know their child was involved in any thing like that....."my child was always so good"!

Maybe they were, but if one member of their group is carrying a gun, then thats one too many. The parent of the "responsible" child is not always fully aware of what the friends around them are up to.

Trust me I cringed when a girlfriend of mine announced how excited she was that she'd bought a gun! Ok, great, but she has no training that I'm aware of, and worse? She has an 11 year old boy at home who is wildly spinning out of control and she is completely blind to that fact. This is not a household that should have a GUN! But she's entitled. This is not going to be end well I'm sure and no one can do anything about it.

Let me follow this up by saying I'm NOT anti-gun. I'm really not. I have no interest in repealing the 2nd ammendment, that would be a VERY bad idea. I'm not really interested in taking guns away from citizens, that would be disasterous... what DOES need to happen is a legitimate and serious unbiased conversation and action about the CLEAR problems in this country with gun ownership. Education isn't enough. It really isn't. Forced education might help... but the reality is that something has to be done... what, I don't know. But until the zealots on both side of the argument can come off their high horses, NOTHING will happen and more will die needlessly.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Trust me I cringed when a girlfriend of mine announced how excited she was that she'd bought a gun! Ok, great, but she has no training that I'm aware of, and worse? She has an 11 year old boy at home who is wildly spinning out of control and she is completely blind to that fact. This is not a household that should have a GUN! But she's entitled. This is not going to be end well I'm sure and no one can do anything about it.

You have just brought up an interesting point.....she bought a gun and had NO training?? Is this how easy it is in the States?

Are there no questions asked when a person buys a gun there, like, do you have any training or do you have a child in the house?

I would imaging buying a gun without training is like buying a car without having taken a single lesson, both potentially dangerous once trigger or steering wheel in hand!

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You have just brought up an interesting point.....she bought a gun and had NO training?? Is this how easy it is in the States?

Are there no questions asked when a person buys a gun there, like, do you have any training or do you have a child in the house?

I would imaging buying a gun without training is like buying a car without having taken a single lesson, both potentially dangerous once trigger or steering wheel in hand!

A background check is still required.

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A background check is still required.

And what does that entail? training details or plain old credit checks?

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I would imaging buying a gun without training is like buying a car without having taken a single lesson, both potentially dangerous once trigger or steering wheel in hand!

lol, that is how it actually is, those that sell you the car, could not care less if you know how to drive or not, and road test to get dr license, is a joke, you can train a moneky in 1 week to pass it, however i know ppl that passed from 30th attempt. yea, we have talants. lol

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And what does that entail? training details or plain old credit checks?

a call to fbi, instant check center, every gun dealer MUST do it for EVERY sale. than fbi tells dealer to procede or deny.

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lol, that is how it actually is, those that sell you the car, could not care less if you know how to drive or not, and road test to get dr license, is a joke, you can train a moneky in 1 week to pass it, however i know ppl that passed from 30th attempt. yea, we have talants. lol

30th attempt?????

after 5 at most they should be struck off from even thinking about getting on the road behind a wheel.

But suppose the driving instructors were loving it, all that money!!

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a call to fbi, instant check center, every gun dealer MUST do it for EVERY sale. than fbi tells dealer to procede or deny.

So basically it tell them if the person has a criminal record, not whether they have been trained to use one?

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30th attempt?????

after 5 at most they should be struck off from even thinking about getting on the road behind a wheel.

But suppose the driving instructors were loving it, all that money!!

lol, yea, i know hard to believe, i would pbly not believe it myself if didn't see it myself.

So basically it tell them if the person has a criminal record, not whether they have been trained to use one?

yes, correct.

a shooting range that i go to has a rule, before you even allowed to enter they test you for safety and skills, you don't have to shoot like sniper, but you have to know how to safely handle firearm, only after instructor passes you, you are allowed to shoot. but it isn't state or local law, it isn't a law at al, it is range policy.

Edited by aztek

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its funny how these stories just happen to not get on the news. But the media dosent have a agenda :) lol

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You say that... but I get the feeling that we differ in our opinion of what responsible really means.

And if you're going to talk to me about nanny state, then first go petition your government to remove age restrictions from everything. A mature 12 year old should be allowed to drive if the parents feel its ok, hmm? With parental permission, 10 year old Johnny should be able to bring a gun to school too. Is that what you're really advocating?

Guns and cars, two completey different machines. Both dangerous in the wrong hands. However, a gun is far easier to operate and handle than a car and most 12 year olds aren't tall enough to see over the steering wheel. I certainly don't think all kids are fit for using firearms but still there are many that are. I do not think that kids should use guns without supervision unless under dire circumstances. I do not think a kid should bring a gun to school under any circumstances. That's crazy. Even if the kid's super responsible and intelligent, many around him aren't. But if we have to compare the two, guns and cars, I'd take my chances being near ten responsible kids with a gun than being near ten responsible kids driving cars. I'll be honest, teenagers driving scare the crap out me sometimes and one kid driving puts a whole lot more people at risk than one kid with a gun, mass shootings aside.

I don't advocate anarchy but it sure isn't my place to decide how parents raise their kids and it isn't yours either. We all can hope that everyone acts responsibly but human nature dictates that's impossible.

Still, any way you want to look at it an bad guys will always have guns and the police can't always be there so a few unfortunate accidents shouldn't decide that we can't keep ourselves protected if we so wish. Just how it is. In a perfect world guns would've never been invented but they were and they're here to stay. So focus your anger on the guy who invented the first gun. It's all his fault.

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its funny how these stories just happen to not get on the news. But the media dosent have a agenda :) lol

But there is an agenda..........NOT to get them on the news. :yes: not sure if its the medias or the person/s who is paying them off.

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But if we have to compare the two, guns and cars, I'd take my chances being near ten responsible kids with a gun than being near ten responsible kids driving cars. I'll be honest, teenagers driving scare the crap out me sometimes and one kid driving puts a whole lot more people at risk than one kid with a gun, mass shootings aside.

I can not see how you can put "responsible kids" as part of the same sentence with guns and cars?

i can see where you are coming from though, apart from the 'responsible" bit. But personally, I would rather neither guns or cars to ever have to be an issue in the first place when kids are involved....its a "don`t even think about it, its a big no" from the start.

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lol, yea, i know hard to believe, i would pbly not believe it myself if didn't see it myself.

yes, correct.

a shooting range that i go to has a rule, before you even allowed to enter they test you for safety and skills, you don't have to shoot like sniper, but you have to know how to safely handle firearm, only after instructor passes you, you are allowed to shoot. but it isn't state or local law, it isn't a law at al, it is range policy.

This is how it should be all round, wonder why the state and local laws do not have this rule? is it too much hard work for them to persue it for everyone who wants a gun? All that extra paperwork would cost money and they would not have enough to spend on their own guns! :whistle:

ps: feel safer now i know you are trained. Lol.

Edited by freetoroam

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