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Beckys_Mom

Ohio School Janitors To Carry Handguns

189 posts in this topic

Anyone on a mission is going to care, if they are trying to complete an objective. If they want a high kill count, they need to not go down before then. If they have a specific target, they need to get to that target. Not to mention, if it's a 'nutter', the flash coming from the end of a gun and the sonic boom it creates sometimes snaps 'nutters' back to reality. I'm still not sure why you think these guys try to get into a shootout situation, considering a lot of them shoot themselves or surrender once police arrive.

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the only thing they care about is shooting as many people as possible, as for specific target, i would imagine their specific target is anything that moves.

As for the flash snapping him back to reality??? this guy already had killed his mother beforehand, if that did not snap him back into reality then nothing else would.

As for the last sentence, exactly my point....they know the chances are they are going to die in the shoot out with the police, so creating as much carnage as possible will be one of their main objectives first...some of these sad uks would thrive on the fact that once in their lives they are going to become famous...in the worse possible way!

This guy had already had a confrontation with 4 school officials beforehand, but when he went back armed he did not specifically target them alone, hence my first point.

I think you are giving too much credit to the nutters frame of mind at the time....he lost it completely and you "rational" explanations do NOT apply here.

Edited by freetoroam

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Anyone on a mission is going to care, if they are trying to complete an objective. If they want a high kill count, they need to not go down before then. If they have a specific target, they need to get to that target. Not to mention, if it's a 'nutter', the flash coming from the end of a gun and the sonic boom it creates sometimes snaps 'nutters' back to reality. I'm still not sure why you think these guys try to get into a shootout situation, considering a lot of them shoot themselves or surrender once police arrive.

============================

the only thing they care about is shooting as many people as possible, as for specific target, i would imagine their specific target is anything that moves.

As for the flash snapping him back to reality??? this guy already had killed his mother beforehand, if that did not snap him back into reality then nothing else would.

As for the last sentence, exactly my point....they know the chances are they are going to die in the shoot out with the police, so creating as much carnage as possible will be one of their main objectives first...some of these sad uks would thrive on the fact that once in their lives they are going to become famous...in the worse possible way!

This guy had already had a confrontation with 4 school officials beforehand, but when he went back armed he did not specifically target them alone, hence my first point.

I think you are giving too much credit to the nutters frame of mind at the time....he lost it completely and you "rational" explanations do NOT apply here.

Your first statement in the retort just isn't true. http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/Taft-school-shooting-suspect-to-be-charged-as-adult-186809081.html?hpt=ju_bn6 This literally just happened in the past week, gunman not looking for a kill count, but was looking for a target.

Correct, Adam Lanza was not deterred by just shots being fired. He would've been deterred from a round being put into his chest by that school principal or psychologist.

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Your first statement in the retort just isn't true. http://www.bakersfie...html?hpt=ju_bn6 This literally just happened in the past week, gunman not looking for a kill count, but was looking for a target.

Correct, Adam Lanza was not deterred by just shots being fired. He would've been deterred from a round being put into his chest by that school principal or psychologist.

Principle or psychologist? did they have guns?

as for the link, it has absolutely nothing to do with Adam lanza and is not even in comparison to what he did. A link to a random shooter would have been better. Lanza did not target a particular person, he targeted what ever moved.

Edited by freetoroam

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Principle or psychologist? did they have guns?

as for the link, it has absolutely nothing to do with Adam lanza and is not even in comparison to what he did. A link to a random shooter would have been better. Lanza did not target a particular person, he targeted what ever moved.

Correct, the link has nothing to do with Adam Lanza, the link was to provide a case where someone did choose a target. You gave the blanket statement of "the only thing they care about is shooting as many people as possible, as for specific target, i would imagine their specific target is anything that moves.", this was just to counter that one point.

In Adam Lanza's case, if the principal or psychologist or both had a gun, I am claiming that only one or no people would've died that day, as the deterrent in that case would've been the round in his chest.

Since no school knows what kind of shooter will potentially show up, you set up as many safeguards as possible. Some will be scared to even do anything if there's armed opposition, some will get scared once the bullets start flying, and some won't be scared and will be gunned down by the armed opposition.

Please, tell me how I am safer in Sandy Hook Elementary with no armed opposition to the gunman. Or better yet, please explain how I am in more danger if there is armed opposition?

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Anyone on a mission is going to care, if they are trying to complete an objective. If they want a high kill count, they need to not go down before then. If they have a specific target, they need to get to that target. Not to mention, if it's a 'nutter', the flash coming from the end of a gun and the sonic boom it creates sometimes snaps 'nutters' back to reality. I'm still not sure why you think these guys try to get into a shootout situation, considering a lot of them shoot themselves or surrender once police arrive.

============================

the only thing they care about is shooting as many people as possible, as for specific target, i would imagine their specific target is anything that moves.

As for the flash snapping him back to reality??? this guy already had killed his mother beforehand, if that did not snap him back into reality then nothing else would.

As for the last sentence, exactly my point....they know the chances are they are going to die in the shoot out with the police, so creating as much carnage as possible will be one of their main objectives first...some of these sad uks would thrive on the fact that once in their lives they are going to become famous...in the worse possible way!

This guy had already had a confrontation with 4 school officials beforehand, but when he went back armed he did not specifically target them alone, hence my first point.

I think you are giving too much credit to the nutters frame of mind at the time....he lost it completely and you "rational" explanations do NOT apply here.

Who cares what the nutter thinks, as if you know.

Blow his head off before he kills even one more child. That's how you deter mass murder.

It's telling that this story generated so much word-count from people just because it happened to include janitors in one school district in Ohio. This has been a terrible display of unconscious bias against a job that doesn't get the respect it deserves. The OP article also mentions that over 1000 teachers in Ohio have applied for an armed training program, but no, that's ignored in favor of this protracted argument about janitors.

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Or as some people call them "cleaners".

Teachers all over the country are filling up gun classes. I wonder what they are going to do with their newly found knowledge or, as the case may be, honing their skills? It's been talked about arming various school employees without anyone knowing which are armed and which aren't.

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I visited Egypt a couple of years ago....you could see machine guns on every corner, in every building...most of the police corrupt. Sure that would deter many but is that what you want to see when you walk into a movie theatre, or a school, or a mall. Is that the type of country the US citizens want to live in? Japan has 0 murders from guns, England 34% are from guns because they have regulations on owning one,.... America 12,000.

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Correct, the link has nothing to do with Adam Lanza, the link was to provide a case where someone did choose a target. You gave the blanket statement of "the only thing they care about is shooting as many people as possible, as for specific target, i would imagine their specific target is anything that moves.", this was just to counter that one point.

it was not a blanket statement, it was about what we discussing, someone on a mission to kill, hence Adam Lanza.

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If your going to accept that fact that amerians will always own guns (somthing I think is daft but there we go) then the only way to stop school shootings is to restrict the movement into and out of school grounds to the extent where guns cannon gain entry.

So, walled school compounds with screen entry via metal detectors and armed police on the gates. Thats the only way, if you give teachers etc guns, one day one of em is gonna use it to shoot children.

Teachers sleep with underage kids on a fairly regular basis and get caught. teachers embezzle schools of thier money, all sorts of things. They are human, they mess up, break, snap, go wrong, have deep seated issues that are missed via tests etc

I take the view that in a soceity full of guns, where anyone, be they a child, mental paitent or tourist 10 mins off the plane can get access to a gun with relative ease that nutters are gonna go on rampages, its just how it is.

The only way in my view to stop that, is either remove access or restrict access to fire arms to such a degree that rampages cease to have such deadly effects, or you have areas/regions of towns/society where guns are not permitted under any circumstances. Say inside government buildings, airports, hospitals, schools.

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If your going to accept that fact that amerians will always own guns (somthing I think is daft but there we go) then the only way to stop school shootings is to restrict the movement into and out of school grounds to the extent where guns cannon gain entry.

So, walled school compounds with screen entry via metal detectors and armed police on the gates. Thats the only way, if you give teachers etc guns, one day one of em is gonna use it to shoot children.

Teachers sleep with underage kids on a fairly regular basis and get caught. teachers embezzle schools of thier money, all sorts of things. They are human, they mess up, break, snap, go wrong, have deep seated issues that are missed via tests etc

I take the view that in a soceity full of guns, where anyone, be they a child, mental paitent or tourist 10 mins off the plane can get access to a gun with relative ease that nutters are gonna go on rampages, its just how it is.

The only way in my view to stop that, is either remove access or restrict access to fire arms to such a degree that rampages cease to have such deadly effects, or you have areas/regions of towns/society where guns are not permitted under any circumstances. Say inside government buildings, airports, hospitals, schools.

To be honest, I think this whole post is daft.

Since the vast majority of schools do NOT have metal detectors and these security measures that you think are essential, where are all the teachers who are going crazy and shooting children? I have several friends who are school teachers, not one of them is searched before entering school grounds, so they could be carrying as we speak.

The statement of "Teachers sleep with underage kids on a fairly regular basis and get caught. teachers embezzle schools of thier money, all sorts of things." Are you aware of how many teachers there are in this country? What are you defining as regularly? There were 7.2 million teachers in the US in 2009 http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb11-ff15.html

This statement "I take the view that in a soceity full of guns, where anyone, be they a child, mental paitent or tourist 10 mins off the plane can get access to a gun with relative ease that nutters are gonna go on rampages, its just how it is.", shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Children can't buy guns, mental patients can't buy guns, and I'm 95% sure a tourist isn't legally allowed to purchase a gun. Temporary residents and permanent residents I'm pretty sure can, but not tourists.

Your last point isn't the only way, as I'll still stand by Adam Lanza and maybe one or two more would've died at Sandy Hook Elementary had the principal and school psychologist had guns. If you want some evidence of previous cases that support what I just said, I've provided a link in my previous posts.

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To be honest, I think this whole post is daft.

Since the vast majority of schools do NOT have metal detectors and these security measures that you think are essential, where are all the teachers who are going crazy and shooting children? I have several friends who are school teachers, not one of them is searched before entering school grounds, so they could be carrying as we speak.

The statement of "Teachers sleep with underage kids on a fairly regular basis and get caught. teachers embezzle schools of thier money, all sorts of things." Are you aware of how many teachers there are in this country? What are you defining as regularly? There were 7.2 million teachers in the US in 2009 http://www.census.go.../cb11-ff15.html

This statement "I take the view that in a soceity full of guns, where anyone, be they a child, mental paitent or tourist 10 mins off the plane can get access to a gun with relative ease that nutters are gonna go on rampages, its just how it is.", shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Children can't buy guns, mental patients can't buy guns, and I'm 95% sure a tourist isn't legally allowed to purchase a gun. Temporary residents and permanent residents I'm pretty sure can, but not tourists.

Your last point isn't the only way, as I'll still stand by Adam Lanza and maybe one or two more would've died at Sandy Hook Elementary had the principal and school psychologist had guns. If you want some evidence of previous cases that support what I just said, I've provided a link in my previous posts.

Ive seen more news articles about teachers being caught stealing/sleeping with kids than I have about teachers shooting kids, what I was saying was that if you take a big group of people, what was it you said? 7.2 million teachers? they are all gonna be normal are they? emotionally and mentally sound? not in any way shape or form a risk? nonsense, a very very small minoroty of them are gonna be bad people, or damaged people, its a numbers game, nothing more, nothing less.

I did not say guns would be legally obtained, I live in the UK, gun ownership is practically non existant as is gun related crime, despite this, if I really wanted too, and had a couple of grand in my pocket and hung around some rough bars and spoke to some unsavoury people, i could almsot certainly get a gun inside a few weeks if I so chose. In the states. where there are loads and loads of guns, i cant imagine it would be any harder. If i asked around im pretty sure some street thug would sell me a firearm and some ammo for some cash in hand no questions asked, regardless of if i was a tourist, mentally ill or only 15 years old. With so many guns, getting one is, if you have even an ounce of imagination and imparied morals, pretty easy.

My suggestion re screening on entry to schools is an extreme solution I agree, but it would not be hard to implement, it would not be cheap, but it would not be hard. Fences are cheap, gates are cheap, all you need is 4 fences, a gate, 1 metal detector and 2 policeman per school. Some schools have metal detectors already, some are making pupils wear radio trackers to monitor attendance, what I suggest is not far from possible, not even slightly.

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Ive seen more news articles about teachers being caught stealing/sleeping with kids than I have about teachers shooting kids, what I was saying was that if you take a big group of people, what was it you said? 7.2 million teachers? they are all gonna be normal are they? emotionally and mentally sound? not in any way shape or form a risk? nonsense, a very very small minoroty of them are gonna be bad people, or damaged people, its a numbers game, nothing more, nothing less.

I did not say guns would be legally obtained, I live in the UK, gun ownership is practically non existant as is gun related crime, despite this, if I really wanted too, and had a couple of grand in my pocket and hung around some rough bars and spoke to some unsavoury people, i could almsot certainly get a gun inside a few weeks if I so chose. In the states. where there are loads and loads of guns, i cant imagine it would be any harder. If i asked around im pretty sure some street thug would sell me a firearm and some ammo for some cash in hand no questions asked, regardless of if i was a tourist, mentally ill or only 15 years old. With so many guns, getting one is, if you have even an ounce of imagination and imparied morals, pretty easy.

My suggestion re screening on entry to schools is an extreme solution I agree, but it would not be hard to implement, it would not be cheap, but it would not be hard. Fences are cheap, gates are cheap, all you need is 4 fences, a gate, 1 metal detector and 2 policeman per school. Some schools have metal detectors already, some are making pupils wear radio trackers to monitor attendance, what I suggest is not far from possible, not even slightly.

So you admit, despite your gun ban, bad guys get guns? And as far as the teacher shooting, just give me a link to one, instead of playing the percentages, I set you up to easily refute with just a single case, and you still failed.

It seems this is going to just go in circles, so I'm just going to wait for you to answer the question I originally asked.

Did you take into account all the budget and legal limitations to your solution?

Personally, I think this school district is doing the best they can with what they have. I'm sure if they had a bunch of extra cash, with the knee jerk reactions in America, they would've already built the jail around the school, as you suggest.

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Did you take into account all the budget and legal limitations to your solution?

Personally, I think this school district is doing the best they can with what they have. I'm sure if they had a bunch of extra cash, with the knee jerk reactions in America, they would've already built the jail around the school, as you suggest.

Well you do have a point there

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