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Blueogre2

The True Meaning of Life

249 posts in this topic

Faith is an excuse for believing things you really have no grounds for believing except that you want to.

There are two forms of faith For example i chose to invest faith in my wife. I do that deliberately and consciousy for logical and scientific reasons. eg it is better for our relationship.

But my wife has a complete faith in the existence of a creator god. It has nothing to do with grounds, although she could explain rationally and logically why (to her) it is obvious that such a god exists. But EVERYTHING which people chose to believe is believed for many complex reasons. Those range from the nature of our brain and thought patterns predisposing us to belief, throughto very logical and demonstrable reasons that faith is good for us and produces positive effects on humans.

I have no religious/spiritual faith. I think it is just not in me to hold things via belief. but if i wanted/needed to, I would/could deliberately and consciously create a faith because it would enhance my life. (As i do with my wife.) I dont need a faith in relgious or spiritual terms because i KNOW a real and physical god. Thus belief and disbelief are not only irrelevant, but impossible, for me.

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this will be a reach to understand or beleive ... so take it any way you like ... try to hear the undercurrent , rather than what may seem the data and facts .

i took a breif visit to a place called the void . i stood in for god as the soul of awareness .... the infinite nature of awareness...eternity , and infinite space was changeless ... with out a single place , that was in any way diffrent than any other for as far as the mind could reach... from the atomic to the edge of infinity... one uniform space with out diffrence of any kind... one seamless magnetic feild with out polar change... no sadness , or joy... infinite apathy...

no light or dark , color or tone... eternity was with out any uniqueness for as far as the mind could reach....

i stood at the edge of eternity alone , and the horror of the lonlyness was like no nightmare the mind can hold .

the flames of hell would be delight to this singlular stillness of changelessness ... years and seconds were the same... light years and microns were no diffrent... and i was alone in this nightmare of the void few understand clearly ... and only a handfull of monks have ever known . the howling winds of solitary lonlyness were so bitter , pain would feel like a spring wind to the isolation of changelessness ...

in under 30 seconds , i fully understood the mind of god ... this is the place god ... who is the infinite nature of awareness ... this is where god lives . and love is the meaning of life .

what love is . is hard to explain , but easy to understand ...

your born at a moment in time between the last moment of the last black hole ... that eats the last bit of matter , and is the last single spot in all of infinite space... and the bang of infinite energy that gets the tinest bit of location... and blooms into all space .... between the beginning and the end of time... you have a life time ...

your born in the same place , at the same time... in between the bang and a hole... each time.... everytime ... you are you because of when and where your born ... your a ratio ... a relationship between energy and matter... unique to you ... and only you... you are specific and unique in all of eternity ... and you happen as a precentage of eternity ... and a percentage of infinty.

look around you , every one you see has made this same trip with you an infinite number of times... some more times then others ...

hold your breath, you will need it . you do not have to do eternity alone . but your going to do all this an eternity of times... as you .

you re-live this- .... this life is what eternity looks like... it never changes , except how ever you change it... its as bad or as good as you make it...

what love is... is looking into your mothers eyes, seeing her soul , saying to your self.... THANK GOD , there you are , i thought i had to do this alone... there you are... i see you and we can make it.. here we are , and we can do this togather... i do not have to do this alone.

when you have been to the void as i have , you understand the meaning of life all to clearly ...

watch the movie "contact" listen to what the alein says to ellie.... then multiplie that an infinite number of times...

And frankly speaking , you have not even scratched the surface of the true nature of void .

what i have been reading here is so good , i respect what i read here so very very much , but honestly , if you spent 3 minutes in void , you would know .

when you know , you hug your enemy and ask if they will stop being a jerk , the stone in your shoe is just a learning experiance that is a pain in the foot ... your a nut case that no one understands , but tolarate for reasons you never really understand ....

to find your self you must lose yourself in the service of others .

seeking god is a selfish endevior , that is noble , and good .

there is no good or bad... there is only point of veiw , and stuff that is good and bad from your point of veiw .

god does not have a point of veiw... but you do .

your not god... any more than an atom is infinite space , or this moment is eternity ...

but your awareness is to god... what this moment is to eternity ... and an atom is to infinte space....

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I had a great deal of love for and trust in my wife, for good reasons, and did not need faith.

Now a lot here is definitional, and I'm mainly talking about religious faith -- the faith that we are told comes from God but really is our wishful thinking being employed by churches to keep us in the fold.

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I clearly stated there was personal objective evidence for the existence of god, exactly the same as for the existence of any indpenedent entity or artefact. I went on to explain how one could establish and verify those evidences.

I also got a bit testy because, like so many, you confuse personal concrete evidences with transferable evidences. For me to know something, it only requires concrete evidences available to me not to anyone else. That is the way humanity and our interaction with our environment works from evolutionary force of circumstance. We learn by physical interaction with our envronment..

To see if you understood this difference (and out of interest, i asked a couple of times if you would explain what objective evidences you use to establish the objective existence of anything in your own environment. The fact that you have not replied suggests you are well aware of the difference but are trying to maintain an argument that i never engaged in Of course my personal objective evidences may not be transferrable to you but that doesnt make them less real or less concrete or applicable.

And vice versa for your own concrete evidences. You KNOW certain things based on the evidences of your interactions with the environment around you. If you do not, you are in real trouble. If you had a tuna and lettuce sandwich for lunch, there is no way you can prove this objective reality to me, unless I accept your own word for it, and for any evidences like photos which you submit as proof For example i would not even know if a person in a photo was you, but YOU would.

So ,what your saying is, you have no evidence you can share with us, only your personal beliefs, ,well that clears the matter up then ,I will look for evidence of god elsewhere

fullywired

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So ,what your saying is, you have no evidence you can share with us, only your personal beliefs, ,well that clears the matter up then ,I will look for evidence of god elsewhere

fullywired

i do have edidance of god... but not that you will likly see as evidence ...

order... the order is not simply a concept of the rational mind... the order can only be logical if it is a construct of all awareness acting uniformly... awareness X infinity = god

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I had a great deal of love for and trust in my wife, for good reasons, and did not need faith.

Now a lot here is definitional, and I'm mainly talking about religious faith -- the faith that we are told comes from God but really is our wishful thinking being employed by churches to keep us in the fold.

religious faith has nothing at all to do with god... religon is with out any standing in anything to do with god.

religon is counter to god... the metaphor is the holy church fathers damning christ and killing him after a court found him guilty of no crime ... thats pretty clear...

all religon is the same... if they got their hands on god... they would kill him

post script=

i might go further... if you go into any local church ... i do not care what your standing in the church or community is.... and seek out with all good nature to talk on the nature of god in that setting.... you will very quickly be shunned , aske to leave ... and then forcefully be removed .

i make no distinction of which religon it is... or who you are... in ALL CASES... YOU WILL BE ATTACKED

Edited by onereaderone

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Ah, the Cardinal ordering Jesus burn in an auto-da-fe, saying, "We have everything under control; we don't need you to return."

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i also understand fullywireds point of view ... and understand that he has little understanding of the nature of god , and frankly would be offended in the very attempt at defining the concept of who and what god is ... and tests to make clear what is a god , and what is an alien which has advanced technology only a few million years advanced of our own .

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Ah, the Cardinal ordering Jesus burn in an auto-da-fe, saying, "We have everything under control; we don't need you to return."

frank , that was totaly uncalled for , totaly wicked... ( and well done! )

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So...do "faith" and "belief" automatically negate any proof? I don't know about that. You can say, "I believe that my car will go forward when I press the gas pedal." Why do you believe that? It's the way the car is supposed to work, and you've probably done it before. You have faith that the car will operate as it has previously done. You can't "know" it's going to work until you actually try it.

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i do have edidance of god... but not that you will likly see as evidence ...

.

Well in that case you can provide us with the evidence but I hope you are not going to repeat what Mr walker has already said

fullywired

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I had a great deal of love for and trust in my wife, for good reasons, and did not need faith.

Now a lot here is definitional, and I'm mainly talking about religious faith -- the faith that we are told comes from God but really is our wishful thinking being employed by churches to keep us in the fold.

Oh I have a lot of love for my wife too. I was hit by the thunderbolt when I met her and 40 years later love her as intensely and completely as a person can, BUT she is a different person to me. That means that where i cannot understand her eg a belief in god via faith, i simply choose to take her in faith. I accept her as she is on faith, without understanding all that she is, even after 40 years. This is a conscious choice. I could have made a number of different choices but i chose to invest my faith in her. Ps what is trust, if not conscious faith?

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So...do "faith" and "belief" automatically negate any proof? I don't know about that. You can say, "I believe that my car will go forward when I press the gas pedal." Why do you believe that? It's the way the car is supposed to work, and you've probably done it before. You have faith that the car will operate as it has previously done. You can't "know" it's going to work until you actually try it.

Logically, faith and belief can only exist where there is no evidence, or at least not any compelling evidence. I dont have faith that my wife exists, I know she does. It is impossible for me as a sane and rational being , therefore, either to believe she exists or to disbelive she exists.

Your example of the car is a good one You do NOT know it will start. On a number of embarrasing occasions my car has failed to start. But turning the key is always an act of faith. It is also predicated on past personal experience Unless you have a really shonky car you will have realised that 999 times out of a thousand it starts when you turn the key. Thus you have statistics to rely on but they are not conclusive. Sometimes, when you turn on a room light the bulb explodes, but you continue to turn on lights based on faith and statistics.. :innocent:

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i think uhmm to have value and depth , hehe we all know life is just life ! but was it worth it to have lived your life the way you are living it .

we can only find that answer when we lie in our dead beds , and think back ,looking at our grandchildren then we know what the true meaning of life is . !

so be patient and wait , till all your family is around you when you breath out your last breath :D:D:D

Edited by WhyDontYouBeliEveMe

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religious faith has nothing at all to do with god... religon is with out any standing in anything to do with god.

religon is counter to god... the metaphor is the holy church fathers damning christ and killing him after a court found him guilty of no crime ... thats pretty clear...

all religon is the same... if they got their hands on god... they would kill him

post script=

i might go further... if you go into any local church ... i do not care what your standing in the church or community is.... and seek out with all good nature to talk on the nature of god in that setting.... you will very quickly be shunned , aske to leave ... and then forcefully be removed .

i make no distinction of which religon it is... or who you are... in ALL CASES... YOU WILL BE ATTACKED

I've been to many churches of different faiths in my younger years, done exactly that, and never had your experience Maybe australians have a different attitude to religion Now, walk into a footy (football) clubroom and try to debate the relative merits of opposing football teams, and you will meet exactly the response you describe. :innocent:

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Sometimes, when you turn on a room light the bulb explodes, but you continue to turn on lights based on faith and statistics.. :innocent:

I know I'm terribly concerned with semantics, but your last statement makes the point for me. The repetition of past events leads to having faith in future occurrences of that event. I would agree that "blind faith" ignores the evidence, but I still think that regular faith can be had based on experience.

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So ,what your saying is, you have no evidence you can share with us, only your personal beliefs, ,well that clears the matter up then ,I will look for evidence of god elsewhere

fullywired

Deliberate misconstruction? I have just finished saying I have no belief in god existence. I have no belief in my dog's existence. I KNOW both exist, using the same form of evidences to know. It is you who is repeating a belief statement which overides (apparently ) your abilty to hear what I am saying or to answer my questions about how YOU know wha tis real and what is not.

Do you agree that i do not believe in the existence of my dog but know it? If not why not, if so why so? You have no evidence of such a claimed dog's existence but readily accept that I can KNOW it exists. Well I KNOW god exists in exacty the same way . Now dont argue that you have encountered dogs as well That only bolsters my argument. If you met god you would have evidences for his existence .

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I know I'm terribly concerned with semantics, but your last statement makes the point for me. The repetition of past events leads to having faith in future occurrences of that event. I would agree that "blind faith" ignores the evidence, but I still think that regular faith can be had based on experience.

That depends on your knowledge and understanding of statistics household/automotive electronics, and cause and effect just because a light bulb turns on 999 times doesnt mean it will on the thousandth time . Every time you turn a light you have faith it will work or you would not turn it on. I agree that faith can come from experince Many people have faith in god because 999 times he has given reason for them to have faith but it can also be invested without experience. Tha tis still not knolwedge No one KNOWS whether a car will start or a light turn on until they have the evidence that it did, ie after the event Edited by Mr Walker

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That depends on your knowledge and understanding of statistics household/automotive electronics, and cause and effect just because a light bulb turns on 999 times doesnt mean it will on the thousandth time . Every time you turn a light you have faith it will work or you would not turn it on. I agree that faith can come from experince Many people have faith in god because 999 times he has given reason for them to have faith but it can also be invested without experience. Tha tis still not knolwedge No one KNOWS whether a car will start or a light turn on until they have the evidence that it did, ie after the event

I agree that there can be faith without evidence, but I don't think that's the only definition for faith. For example, Superman: The Movie used the tagline "You will believe a man can fly." That indicates that belief follows proof. It is another possible definition for faith.

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my op:the true meaning of life is to get into heaven.no, i'm absolutely not religious.the cold hard fact is that christianity,specifically that what christ teaches mankind in the new testament contains the meaning of life.look at the world;everything that is said is true.life is all about money,sex,etc. 4 people.satisfying oneself.thats all people seem to care about.the world will end one day,and when that day has arrived those who have been loyal 2 god and those who hae suffered the most will get into heaven.think outside the bbox.it doesn't matter who you are(race,class etc.).this count 4 all human beings.the true meaning of life is to b as close to god as u can possibly be.God is almighty,so there's no-one that can surpass him.the only way of reaching a higher state or position as a being in the universe is to be as close to god as possible.that's the limit for us as people.there is no higher position or state than that.how to achieve that?.....again,New Testament.

I may have heard wrong, but you state that you're "absolutely not religious", yet you believe whole-heartedly in the New Testament? Isn't that just a tad contradictory?

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Having or adopting children is strongly recommended as a way to give meaning to your life, or, if not that, to at least distract you from yourself.

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Deliberate misconstruction? I have just finished saying I have no belief in god existence. I have no belief in my dog's existence. I KNOW both exist, using the same form of evidences to know. It is you who is repeating a belief statement which overides (apparently ) your abilty to hear what I am saying or to answer my questions about how YOU know wha tis real and what is not.

Do you agree that i do not believe in the existence of my dog but know it? If not why not, if so why so? You have no evidence of such a claimed dog's existence but readily accept that I can KNOW it exists. Well I KNOW god exists in exacty the same way . Now dont argue that you have encountered dogs as well That only bolsters my argument. If you met god you would have evidences for his existence .

I don't know what you believe, all I know is you said that you had evidence but you can't provide it .Nothing you have posted is evidence of the existence of God but only your beliefs and no matter how you dress it up it remains the same and trying the old ploy of if you don't have an answer ask a question won.t work with me

fullywired

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I don't know what you believe, all I know is you said that you had evidence but you can't provide it .Nothing you have posted is evidence of the existence of God but only your beliefs and no matter how you dress it up it remains the same and trying the old ploy of if you don't have an answer ask a question won.t work with me

fullywired

Given that the scientific method would not be applicable to evidence of the existence of a supernatural being, exactly what process would you use to examine evidence provided by Mr. W?

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No,its not that i believe in The NT;but what's written in it is cold hard fact,not belief.as i said,loot at the world around you...

But you say the meaning of life is to get into heaven, yet you say you're not religious. Obviously you must believe in heaven, correct?

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IamsSon

Given that the scientific method would not be applicable to evidence of the existence of a supernatural being, exactly what process would you use to examine evidence provided by Mr. W?

In Mr Walker's view, there is a god who is a physical being, "an independently existing, real and powerful entity humans call god." In particular, it was Mr Walker who proposed physical tests of the sort routinely used to explore other physical questions,

Well, I know the nature of gods and angels via exactly the same tested knowledge. I DO continue to test the solidity of brick walls and my ability to fly.

If you feel that such tests would be unavailing, then you need to pursue that with Mr Walker.

Do you believe that establishing the existence of supernatural beings, rather than physical beings thought by some to be supernatural, would help us to establish a "true meaning of life?"

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