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AquilaChrysaetos

Do Animals go to Heaven?

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I've lost three dogs and countless fish in my life and I cried each time one died. Are they in Heaven? Yes, I truly believe so.

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As a Bible-believing Christian I can't find any reason to think that animals are in heaven. If you aren't fully invested in the Bible then you may very well come to a different understanding.

Is this a form of special pleading? I am a little surprised - it almost reads as "if you are not with us you are against us". Are these folk sufficiently invested in the bible? Or just maintaining a sense of humour while recognising that nowhere in the bible does it say dogs do not go to heaven .....

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Is this a form of special pleading? I am a little surprised - it almost reads as "if you are not with us you are against us".

I simply meant that a full Bible-believing Christian cannot infer that animals have eternal souls, and that there are many arguments against them having souls. If you move beyond the Bible as many people do, then you are free to infer whatever you like. I know you aren't a strict Bible-literalist, so you can make any judgement you like about animals going to heaven.

Are these folk sufficiently invested in the bible? Or just maintaining a sense of humour while recognising that nowhere in the bible does it say dogs do not go to heaven .....

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For some reason I'm receiving an Error when I clicked the video, so I can't really answer your question.

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Humans are animals and those that believe in heaven then yes every living thing goes to heaven for a sin we could not prevent, life., if not does every living thing not go to hell for just living.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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I simply meant that a full Bible-believing Christian cannot infer that animals have eternal souls, and that there are many arguments against them having souls. If you move beyond the Bible as many people do, then you are free to infer whatever you like. I know you aren't a strict Bible-literalist, so you can make any judgement you like about animals going to heaven.

For some reason I'm receiving an Error when I clicked the video, so I can't really answer your question.

That's ok, I am sure you have sign the church sign "Do Dogs Go to Heaven" debate before, if not you can use that title to google it.

I

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It seems to me that the idea that Humans are different/above the Animals, and that Animals don't have souls comes from the same line of thought that interprets "having dominion over the earth" as being a license to exploit the "animal kingdom" and the earth as a whole. An argument that has led to Human civilisation being woefully out of sympathy with the environment, and I'm afraid is yet another thing for which the blame has to be laid at the door of organised Religion.

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I have to agree, Lord V. We will doom ourselves with that arrogant line of thinking.

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i can't remember my childhood church training but i vaguely two items from the bible that might have bearings on the subject,

the first is something about a place where " the lion shall lie down with the lamb." this seems to indicate that there is a place for animals

and the second is

"as with man so it is with the beast, from dust thou came to dust thou shalt return" this on the other hand indicates to me at least that there is no afterlife, for anything. Granted i haven't believed in any religeon or known Deity in over 35 years.

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i can't remember my childhood church training but i vaguely two items from the bible that might have bearings on the subject,

the first is something about a place where " the lion shall lie down with the lamb." this seems to indicate that there is a place for animals

and the second is

"as with man so it is with the beast, from dust thou came to dust thou shalt return" this on the other hand indicates to me at least that there is no afterlife, for anything. Granted i haven't believed in any religeon or known Deity in over 35 years.

¶ The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,

and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,

and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;

and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:6

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and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:6

Thanks for providing that.

I think animals are different from human beings in some very obvious ways. First, each species is different in its form and its behavior patterns and its environmental niche. These are scientific things that are not really pertinent to the question here but need to be remembered.

Do humans have God-given dominance over the animals? I think we have de-facto dominance, but the idea that we got this from God is a myth. We have just assumed (usurped?) it. With this dominance comes a huge responsibility that we seem often to try to avoid.

Do animals have souls? Since I think the idea of a soul is an illusion, I would of course say no they do not, any more than we have souls. What we identify as a soul is not a thing but a process -- like a wave on the water is a process (albeit a much simpler one). That sensate animals would have a similar process going on seems reasonable, and reinforced by just watching them. So, if that process somehow survives the death of the brain, it should to so likewise with animals.

Are humans spiritually or morally different? This seems undeniable; we do not hold a dog responsible for its vicious attack on a rabbit, even if its done not out of hunger but just because of its instincts and the pleasure responses these instincts create. Similar behavior by a person who has come to understand that it is wrong is held morally condemnable. We too have such instincts, but we also have a moral compass.

Another way humans differ is in their ability to communicate with language at a level far exceeding the communication animals can achieve. Still, in spite of this, our languages are inadequate to remove the isolation each of us has from everyone else. We cannot share thoughts and emotions in any but the crudest ways.

One final difference, although there are no doubt many more: we have art and compassion and humor and religion and altruism, things that seem to appear here and there in limited ways in animals but for the most part seems limited to humans.

In short, I doubt that there is a qualitative difference between human and animal minds, but there are vast quantitative differences.

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One final difference, although there are no doubt many more: we have art and compassion and humor and religion and altruism, things that seem to appear here and there in limited ways in animals but for the most part seems limited to humans.

And, curiously enough, are almost totally absent from politicians. The only conclusion, I think, we can draw from that is that they are in fact not human.

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And, curiously enough, are almost totally absent from politicians. The only conclusion, I think, we can draw from that is that they are in fact not human.

No doubt so.

Pardon me please for getting pedantic over your perceptive comment, but I cannot restrain myself. Politicians are self-appointed, just as are most professional people (people usually make these choices in college) and one must ask what is it that makes one want to be a politician? A huge ego seems to be the only consistent characteristic.

Still, ego can be a good thing. It can lead people to do, or at least try to do, great things.

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No doubt so.

Pardon me please for getting pedantic over your perceptive comment, but I cannot restrain myself. Politicians are self-appointed, just as are most professional people (people usually make these choices in college) and one must ask what is it that makes one want to be a politician? A huge ego seems to be the only consistent characteristic.

Still, ego can be a good thing. It can lead people to do, or at least try to do, great things.

I have met a lot of politicians in my life. The ones who seem to in it to for good reasons seem to never get elected and the ones in for self-serving greed get in on lies and deception. I blame it on laziness of the average voter. One thing about my dog and cat is they don't lie to me and give me more than I can ever repay them.

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I have met a lot of politicians in my life. The ones who seem to in it to for good reasons seem to never get elected and the ones in for self-serving greed get in on lies and deception. I blame it on laziness of the average voter. One thing about my dog and cat is they don't lie to me and give me more than I can ever repay them.

I go by what I see in America and other democracies. To be a "politician" in Vietnam one must apply and be accepted into the party, and nowadays that generally requires college and intelligence and, of course, ideological dependability. What happens after that is not much discussed. Competent people seem to be in the party, although there is some corruption, that happens everywhere. I think nowadays the Leninist idea of an "elite" of party members running the country is pretty much, subject to human foibles, what you see.

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Though i am not a believer in organized religeons,if there was a heaven or a hell i would want my dogs with me wherever i wound up

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We know what we have to do if we want to go to Heaven but what does an animal have to do,assuming of course that they do get to go ??

fullywired

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I go by what I see in America and other democracies. To be a "politician" in Vietnam one must apply and be accepted into the party, and nowadays that generally requires college and intelligence and, of course, ideological dependability. What happens after that is not much discussed. Competent people seem to be in the party, although there is some corruption, that happens everywhere. I think nowadays the Leninist idea of an "elite" of party members running the country is pretty much, subject to human foibles, what you see.

This is off topic so we have to end it, but I don't think either system works all that well. Sometimes I think we would be better off to put everybody's name in a hat and draw lots. I read a science fiction story were they used that system. I thought it might be a good idea.

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¶ The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,

and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,

and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;

and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:6

Yup that's a nice one Sakari :tu:

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Animals on the other side? It's a sign of human egotism that not only do we somehow want to cheat death and continue on, but we want to bring our pets with us too! But as for the question no, I don't believe in pets going to heaven, mostly because I know animals are lower lifeforms that are incapable of higher thought and therefore there is nothing to pass on... heck I am not even certain we continue on after death... That may be an ability that a higher form of humanity will have in the future.

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My young son had a cat that only loved him. I didn't even like the cat. We lived in a big house and one night, the cat came to me in a vision and told me it was dead and his body was in the basement, in the cistern. Then he rose and went into a brilliant light. Next day I told my oldest son to go and find the cat's body. Sure enough, there he was. I told my younger son, I knew for sure his cat had gone to heaven.

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My young son had a cat that only loved him. I didn't even like the cat. We lived in a big house and one night, the cat came to me in a vision and told me it was dead and his body was in the basement, in the cistern. Then he rose and went into a brilliant light. Next day I told my oldest son to go and find the cat's body. Sure enough, there he was. I told my younger son, I knew for sure his cat had gone to heaven.

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¶ The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,

and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,

and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;

and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:6

Yep, all God's creatures will find their heaven it seems :)

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Animals on the other side? It's a sign of human egotism that not only do we somehow want to cheat death and continue on, but we want to bring our pets with us too! But as for the question no, I don't believe in pets going to heaven, mostly because I know animals are lower lifeforms that are incapable of higher thought and therefore there is nothing to pass on... heck I am not even certain we continue on after death... That may be an ability that a higher form of humanity will have in the future.

Where does this come from? Seriously! That only life forms that have 'higher thought' continue on after death? The whole idea of any life form continuing on after death is ridiculous, but to discriminate the continuance by 'higher thought'...that is the most ridiculous concept. If life continues .... life continues. What does higher thought really have to do with anything other than the ego of those 'higher thinking' creatures?

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Animals on the other side? It's a sign of human egotism that not only do we somehow want to cheat death and continue on, but we want to bring our pets with us too! But as for the question no, I don't believe in pets going to heaven, mostly because I know animals are lower lifeforms that are incapable of higher thought and therefore there is nothing to pass on... heck I am not even certain we continue on after death... That may be an ability that a higher form of humanity will have in the future.

I think you should head over to the "Are Humans Special?" thread (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240022&st=225&p=4636296&hl=+are%20+humans%20+specialentry4636296) and explain how you "know" animals are "lower lifeforms that are incapable of higher thought" I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.

In regards to this thread, what you seem to be saying is that since animals are "incapable" of higher thought, there's nothing to pass on. So, do you then therefore believe that mentally challenged humans have "nothing to pass on". i.e. some scientists believe that cats have the same level of intelligence as a two year old. So, would a mentally challenged person with the intelligence level of a two year old not go to heaven? Would a child less than two years of age not go to heaven? I don't follow your logic on this.

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Where does this come from? Seriously! That only life forms that have 'higher thought' continue on after death? The whole idea of any life form continuing on after death is ridiculous, but to discriminate the continuance by 'higher thought'...that is the most ridiculous concept. If life continues .... life continues. What does higher thought really have to do with anything other than the ego of those 'higher thinking' creatures?

Higher Thought has everything to do with it, I mean really how can you possibly say that life is life. Human beings are similar to other animals in a multitude of ways... more then most people realize but, we differ in important factor we can think and understand our world in ways that go far beyond any other creature we currently know of. Furthermore we can imagine other worlds and realms that may or may not exist. Animals can not. They are simple beings at least when compared with us. The very fact that we can sit here and debate this point is proof of how much greater we are then them. I mean honestly when was the last time you saw two dogs debating the meaning of life :tu:

I think you should head over to the "Are Humans Special?" thread (http://www.unexplain...l) and explain how you "know" animals are "lower lifeforms that are incapable of higher thought" I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.

In regards to this thread, what you seem to be saying is that since animals are "incapable" of higher thought, there's nothing to pass on. So, do you then therefore believe that mentally challenged humans have "nothing to pass on". i.e. some scientists believe that cats have the same level of intelligence as a two year old. So, would a mentally challenged person with the intelligence level of a two year old not go to heaven? Would a child less than two years of age not go to heaven? I don't follow your logic on this.

Personally I don't know what to think about disabled humans, I would want to believe that they too have souls, but in cases where their is no complex thought I am left in doubt. But as someone who interacts with a person in the later stages of dementia I can speak from experience that after you reach a certain point there is nothing left. Now does that mean they won't have an afterlife? Who knows? Now as for the animals, of that I am certain they have no higher thought and are unable to have it. In the case of a disabled human they at least could be cured of their ailment and reach their full potential but in animals they are just bodies walking around

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