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redhen

911 inside job - for what?

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Its why we still have Short Busses in the formative years for our childern! 9/11 C.T`s and the like really need help.

As do the Sandy Hook peeps ! It is what it Is ! mankind is a bit Off a vrey good part of the time !

It would be nice to think that some day we really could evolve ! :tu:

It is amazing that conspiracist make claims of wealth yet cannot show the money, so they resort to counterfeiting.

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then, where's the money???

You wouldn't know the money if it slapped you in the face with a big sign saying I am the money.

Because you can't disseminate information as been proven by these very threads.

And you bareface lie in the hope of fooling others when all you do is fool yourself and one other...lol

Its why we still have Short Busses in the formative years for our childern!

Short busses?? Childern?

Did you use these short busses yourself?

Sorry but you have to remember, that not all the audience and CTers are American.

9/11 C.T`s and the like really need help.
Well it's a good job I'm not a 9/11 CTer or that I don't really need help thanks.

I'm managing fine on my own ta very much! ;) lol

As do the Sandy Hook peeps ! It is what it Is ! mankind is a bit Off a vrey good part of the time !

It would be nice to think that some day we really could evolve ! :tu:

I have no ideas about the Sandy Hook peeps or the conspiracy theories that supposedly surrounds it.

I know there is a thread about it, but I've never read it because it probably makes about as much sense as Skyeagles posts. lol

Edited by Stundie

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You wouldn't know the money if it slapped you in the face with a big sign saying I am the money.

Apparently, you have yet to show the evidence money which simply means you have no evidence money to show. Now, where's the money that can implicate the government in the 911 attacks? Please count out the evidence money for all to see. If you fail to do so, then it is case closed on your arguments.

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Apparently, you have yet to show the evidence money which simply means you have no evidence money to show. Now, where's the money that can implicate the government in the 911 attacks? Please count out the evidence money for all to see. If you fail to do so, then it is case closed on your arguments.

I would be wasting my time trying to discuss evidence with some one who has extremely poor reading and comprehension skills...lol

It would be like trying to fly a hand glider so I could crap on pigeons...lol

Edited by Stundie

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I would be wasting my time trying to discuss evidence with some one who has the reading and comprehension skills with a man of your calibre...lol

You have failed to produce evidence of molten steel and the use of thermite or thermite cuts on structural steel, and such cuts were not found during recovery operations nor during structural investigations at the salvage yards.

An eyewitness account of molten steel is not real evidence when other witnesses have claimed they did not see molten steel at ground zero or that the witness was not knowledegable enuoght to idenfity molten steel, which Mr. Roberts acknowledged he did not possess.

Add to the fact that no temperature readings reached the level required to melt steel. In addition, there was nothing at ground zero capable of producing molten steel other than torches and wands used by clean-up crews. Nothing was recovered at ground zero that would have accounted for molten steel.

The fact that cherry hot steel beams were pulled from the rubble confirms that temperatures beneath the rubble were well below the melting point of steel and because the steel beams retained their shapes and that indicates the temperatures were hundreds of degrees below the melting point of steel, otherwise the beams would have been shapeless mass of steel they were exposed to temperatures of 2800 degrees or higher.

Edited by skyeagle409

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You have failed to produce evidence of molten steel

Except for eyewitnesses, except eyewitnesses are not evidence when they urinate over your beliefs...lol
and the use of thermite or thermite cuts on structural steel, and such cuts were not found during recovery operations and during structural investigations at the salvage yards.
Because it was never looked for...lol

Again, your logic path is a circular scribble...lol

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Except for eyewitnesses, except eyewitnesses are not evidence when they urinate over your beliefs...

That doesn't work because investigators and structural experts found no such evidence. Read the reports because they have confirmed the WTC buildings collapsed because fires weaken their steel structures, which was evident when police and fire officials reported that the WTC buildings were buckling just before they collapsed, which clearly indicates that fire were weakening their structures.

The World Trade Center's Steel Structure Was Buckling Before the Collapse

Police, Firemen and Civilians Saw Warning Signs of Collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001

Before the collapse of either tower, evidence the structures of the WTC were failing was reported by Police, Firemen and civilians. As already mentioned, flying around outside the WTC, the NYPD helicopters reported "an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed."

Inside WTC 1, New York City Fire Department's Assistant Chief Joseph Callan realized the building was in trouble even before the first building, building two, collapsed. Interviewed Nov. 2, 2001, Assistant Chief Callan told New York City Fire Marshal Michael Starace, "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower. Approximately ten minutes after that, we had a collapse of the south tower, and we were sort of blown up against the wall in the lobby of the north tower, and we gathered together those of us who were still able to."

http://www.representativepress.org/BowingDebunksExplosives2.html

Edited by skyeagle409

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That doesn't work because investigators and structural experts found no such evidence. Read the reports.

They didn't look for it as the report states

Again, highlighting that you have the reading comprehension skills of a parrot with Tourette's syndrome...lol

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They didn't look for it as the report states

That doesn't work either because you have to produce the evidence or you have no case.

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Inside WTC 1, New York City Fire Department's Assistant Chief Joseph Callan realized the building was in trouble even before the first building, building two, collapsed. Interviewed Nov. 2, 2001, Assistant Chief Callan told New York City Fire Marshal Michael Starace, "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower. Approximately ten minutes after that, we had a collapse of the south tower, and we were sort of blown up against the wall in the lobby of the north tower, and we gathered together those of us who were still able to."

http://www.represent...xplosives2.html

I am just curious, but is there an explaination why for the bolded above?

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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I am just curious, but is there an explaination why for the bolded above?

As the fire buckled the steel frames of the WTC buildings, items became dislodged and fell to the ground. This is what happens when steel is subject to high temperatures.

62018.JPG

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As the fire buckled the steel frames of the WTC buildings, items became dislodged and fell to the ground. This is what happens when steel is subject to high temperatures.

62018.JPG

Yeah 77 floors below the impact zone....lol

That sure explains it...lol

And that photo definitely explains it....lol

Heat from 77 floors above..... about 950ft away....or 290 metres away caused it...lol

Edited by Stundie
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As the fire buckled the steel frames of the WTC buildings, items became dislodged and fell to the ground. This is what happens when steel is subject to high temperatures.

62018.JPG

Sorry Sky, i doubt the fires would affect the lobby

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Heat from 77 floors above..... about 950ft away....or 290 metres away caused it..

And, where did the collapse of the WTC buildings commenced? Right where they were struck by the aircraft.

Sorry Sky, i doubt the fires would affect the lobby

Fuel from the aircraft was also flowing down elevator shafts, and then, you had elevators crashing into the basement area..

Edited by skyeagle409

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And, where did the collapse of the WTC buildings commenced? Right where they were struck by the aircraft.

Fuel from the aircraft was also flowing down elevator shafts, and then, you had elevators crashing into the basement area..

Are you involved in construction or fire protection? If it was hot enough to warp the steel in the lobby you could not stand inside said lobby without dying from the heat, let alone smoke/fumes (none of which were present)

Edited by Professor Buzzkill
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Are you involved in construction or fire protection?

I am an aircraft structural technician/inspector.

...If it was hot enough to warp the steel in the lobby you could not stand inside said lobby without dying from the heat, let alone smoke/fumes (none of which were present)

It doesn't take that much to dislodge items from walls in buildings. That was evident during the 1950s when sonic booms knocked off plaster and damaged walls in homes. That is why aircraft have certain speed limits over CONUS.

What happened in the basement when that B-767 struck?

Edited by skyeagle409

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And, where did the collapse of the WTC buildings commenced? Right where they were struck by the aircraft.

Stop subject shifting...lol

I know you want to because it has been pointed out by someone else how absurd your argument is, that you think that fires from about 950ft or 290m away caused the steel in the lobby to buckle...lol

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Fuel from the aircraft was also flowing down elevator shafts, and then, you had elevators crashing into the basement area..

929.png

You see that small block, that is the volume of jet fuel left after the initial fireball.

So what you are saying is that this amount of jet fuel, travelled down the elevator shaft over 950ft/290M away and all the way down into the basement and then heated up the 4 inch (If I recall correctly) thick steel beams in the lower floors of lobby which caused buckling and the damage in the lobby? :blink:

Its sounds like a story Pinocchio would be proud of...lol

Edited by Stundie
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Stop subject shifting...l

Are you implying that the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 did not commence at the point of impacts?

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I am an aircraft structural technician/inspector.

It doesn't take that much to dislodge items from walls in buildings. That was evident during the 1950s when sonic booms knocked off plaster and damaged walls in homes. That is why aircraft have certain speed limits over CONUS.

What happened in the basement when that B-767 struck?

I have been a fire sprinkler system inspector and currently work in planning and developing fire protection systems in commerical buildings.

I think a much more likely explaination for the state of the lobby is crashing elevators, but only because fire damage can be ruled out completely.

Elevators falling to the basement would cause a massive sound, like an explosion, but i doubt that damage in an elevator pit (which would be lower than the lowest floor in a building usually, i am willing to change my mind if presented with the architectual layout) could cause damage to a lobby which is a significant number of floors higher then the bottom of the pit.

BTW nice change of subject in your last post.

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Are you implying that the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 did not commence at the point of impacts?

No...lol

What I am implying is that you are subject shifting away from your absurd assertion that jet fuel from about 950ft/290ft away, caused 4 inch thick steel to buckle and damage the lobby.

To pointing out that the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 commenced at the points of impacts, which no one denies or has ever argued.

So about this jet fuel then...*Pulls up a chair!*

Please tell us how the jet fuel manage to buckle 4 inch thick steel 950ft/290m away. :blink:

You've seen the image, that's how much fuel you have to play with and remember, that some of that would have fallen down to the basement too...lol

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929.png

You see that small block, that is the volume of jet fuel left after the initial fireball.

So what you are saying is that this amount of jet fuel, travelled down the elevator shaft over 950ft/290M away and all the way down into the basement and then heated up the 4 inch (If I recall correctly) thick steel beams in the lower floors of lobby which caused buckling and the damage in the lobby?

Well, let's take a look.

Jan 17, 2006 – The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby.

At 9:03 a.m., United Airlines Flight 175 cut like a scythe through the packed elevator lobby. Death's scalpel sliced between people standing inches apart, killing one while sparing another.

Based on information from survivors, USA TODAY estimates that 200 people were in the 2,600-square-foot lobby when the jet hit. It was the deadliest place in the south tower: About one-third of the 611 people who perished in the building died there.

The jet strikes

A deafening explosion and a searing blast of heat ripped through the lobby. The air turned black with smoke. Flames burst out of elevators. Walls and the ceiling crumbled into a foot of debris on the floor. Shards of glass flew like thrown knives. The blast threw people like dolls, tearing their bodies apart. No one knew it was a plane.

http://usatoday30.us...loor-usat_x.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing there that depicts a bomb explosion.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I have been a fire sprinkler system inspector and currently work in planning and developing fire protection systems in commerical buildings.

I think a much more likely explaination for the state of the lobby is crashing elevators, but only because fire damage can be ruled out completely.

Elevators falling to the basement would cause a massive sound, like an explosion, but i doubt that damage in an elevator pit (which would be lower than the lowest floor in a building usually, i am willing to change my mind if presented with the architectual layout) could cause damage to a lobby which is a significant number of floors higher then the bottom of the pit.

BTW nice change of subject in your last post.

Here is layout of the elevators in the WTC.

page15.jpg

There were 99 passenger elevators in each tower, arranged in three vertical zones to move occupants in stages to skylobbies on the 44th and 78th floors. These were arranged as express (generally larger cars that moved at higher speeds) and local elevators in an innovative system first introduced in WTC 1 and WTC 2. There were 8 express elevators from the concourse to the 44th floor and 10 express elevators from the concourse to the 78th floor as well as 24 local elevators per zone, which served groups of floors in those zones. There were seven freight elevators, only one of which served all floors. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation per American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) A17.1 and Local Law 5 (1973).http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf (PDF pg. 50)

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Well, let's take a look.

Jan 17, 2006 – The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby.

At 9:03 a.m., United Airlines Flight 175 cut like a scythe through the packed elevator lobby. Death's scalpel sliced between people standing inches apart, killing one while sparing another.

Based on information from survivors, USA TODAY estimates that 200 people were in the 2,600-square-foot lobby when the jet hit. It was the deadliest place in the south tower: About one-third of the 611 people who perished in the building died there.

The jet strikes

A deafening explosion and a searing blast of heat ripped through the lobby. The air turned black with smoke. Flames burst out of elevators. Walls and the ceiling crumbled into a foot of debris on the floor. Shards of glass flew like thrown knives. The blast threw people like dolls, tearing their bodies apart. No one knew it was a plane.

http://usatoday30.us...loor-usat_x.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing there that depicts a bomb explosion.

i believe you are refering to a sub lobby on or about the 77th floor

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Well, let's take a look.

Jan 17, 2006 – The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby.

At 9:03 a.m., United Airlines Flight 175 cut like a scythe through the packed elevator lobby. Death's scalpel sliced between people standing inches apart, killing one while sparing another.

Based on information from survivors, USA TODAY estimates that 200 people were in the 2,600-square-foot lobby when the jet hit. It was the deadliest place in the south tower: About one-third of the 611 people who perished in the building died there.

The jet strikes

A deafening explosion and a searing blast of heat ripped through the lobby. The air turned black with smoke. Flames burst out of elevators. Walls and the ceiling crumbled into a foot of debris on the floor. Shards of glass flew like thrown knives. The blast threw people like dolls, tearing their bodies apart. No one knew it was a plane.

http://usatoday30.us...loor-usat_x.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing there that depicts a bomb explosion.

Well according to the man travelling in the lift, he heard 3 explosions

From CNN:

"ARTURO GRIFFITH, WTC SURVIVOR: I was running 58 cars -- the elevators

that going to 86 to 108th floor.

KING: Where were you when it happened?

A. GRIFFITH: Well, I was on my way from B-2 to 49th floor. And as I took off, it was amount it was a matter of seconds -- five, six, seven seconds, I don't know. And there was a loud explosion and the elevator dropped. And when the elevator dropped there was a lot of debris and cables falling on top of the elevator. And I just -- I just put my hand over my head and I said, oh God I'm going to die. But I didn't know what was happening.

When the elevator finally stopped, they had an explosion that bring the doors inside the elevator, and I think I'm sure that that was what broke my leg. And then they had another explosion and the panel that threw me, you know, against the wall, and I guess I was unconscious for a couple of minutes because somebody else was in the elevator with me, and they say that they was trying to get my attention and they didn't get no response from me."

http://transcripts.cnn.co...IPTS/0110/06/lklw.00.html

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