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redhen

911 inside job - for what?

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Psyche

I was a medic, not an infantryman.

It was in the Army in Vietnam that I discovered how deceptive the government is. I learned there first hand that the CIA was in the dope business, and I learned that the practice that drove almost everything else was CYA. Cover Your A==. I learned that is how the government works.

Thus, discovering years later that the events of 11 September were events staged by the military was not difficult to understand. Bitter, for sure, and very sad and disgusting, but not difficult to understand. In a perverse sense, very much in character.

Because I also learned very quickly, along with most other young troops, that all the stories I had been brainwashed with--stopping the advance of Yellow Communism, primarily--was pure hogwash. I learned that Vietnam was no threat to my country whatsoever, and I learned what it feels like to be an invader of a peaceful country. No, not a good feeling.

That you are still replaying that "stop communism" loop in your head all these years later makes perfect sense, considering that you believe the loop playing today regarding the events of 11 September.

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Thus, discovering years later that the events of 11 September were events staged by the military was not difficult to understand.

What is difficult to understand is why do 911 Truthers think the government could have carried out the 911 attacks and not get caught? It has been over 11 years and yet no evidence has surfaced implicating the U.S. government. How long did it take to reveal the inside story surrounding the Watergate scandal? How long did it take reveal the scandal involving Vice President Spiro Agnew?

Since the mid-1990s to a month before the 911 attacks, countries were warning the U.S. that muslim terrorist were planning to attack America, which they did on September 11, 2001. Nothing to do with the a U.S. government conspiracy.

Edited by skyeagle409

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They have been caught Sky, but you are so deeply in denial that you are unaware of it in your mind.

No, they certainly have not been arrested or prosecuted, but they have been caught.

Our current President and his AG are too busy looking forward to look behind and enforce the law.

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They have been caught Sky, but you are so deeply in denial that you are unaware of it in your mind.

You seem to forget that facts and evidence support the official story, not the fantasies of 911 Truthers. That explains why after more than 11 years since the 911 attacks, 911 Truthers have failed to produce evidence that implicates the U.S. government in the 911 attacks.

No, they certainly have not been arrested or prosecuted, but they have been caught.

No they haven't, which explains why no U.S. government employee has been arrested for the 911 attacks.

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I don´t know why you want to get down into the mud with the 9/11 troothers and actually debate all their idiotic imaginary "proofs" for this and that. They believe in their fiction like religionists believe in their holy books.

I thought the topic of this thread was trying to get one of them to answer the simple question: Why?

Why would anybody concoct a massive and elaborate conspiracy, simply to add another jihadist terrorist attack to thousands of jihadist terrorist attacks that are carried out all the time?

The whole premise of the 9/11 troother idea is sheer lunacy.

Already answered: -

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240942&st=1635#entry4731887

The line you took and repetition of the question indicate denial (or perhaps lunacy) on your part.

I already appealed for you to reconsider your argument to continue any form of rationale discussion. I’ll give one more chance. Please list scale of destruction and casualties of the attacks you mentioned, including 9/11, and note the closest match to Pearl Harbor. Failure to accept the obvious fact - that 9/11 is the closest match to Pearl Harbor - will only show you up further.

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Go jump, why should I try again? Because the basic principal in design that I pointed blatantly out to you is being ignored by you? Get over yourself! Both have ten foot walls, both have empty grounds beside them, both have one entry/exit, what is does illustrate is Bin Laden was in a bloody house, not a prison. The entry gate I showed you is a prison. What Bin Laden lived in would be more than common in say South Africa. It, like Pakistan, has serious law issues.

Your picture of a strong house where Bin Laden hid out is not in any way shape or form, a prison. I have built 3 correctional centres. That is not a prison.

The Swiss ambassador building is clearly nothing like specifics I noted of the bin Laden compound in post #1218. You claim that the Swiss ambassador building has only one entry/exit? I can count at least four.

Your comments also indicate that you confuse a full blown detention facility with a safe-house intended for house-arrest – either is a prison, albeit of a different nature.

Designed by an architect? Good gravy. Of course it was designed by an architect, it was not designed by a fisherman was it now? That too does not make a house a prison.

Your response above is ridiculous – the point is the report said the architect worked for the ISI. It’s not that an architect designed the building. It’s that an agent of the ISI designed the building. That you missed this obvious point speaks volumes of your opinions.

Can I accept what? That the guards who were keeping the location a secret did not allow people in? The neighbours also say they never saw people in there as well, are all the neighbours on the US payroll as well? I think Bin Laden privacy was probably worth 2-3 times that of a child's ball.

That doesn’t make sense. If the guards and bin Laden were all attempting to keep hidden, there would be no risk in throwing the ball back. A possible reason the ball was not handed back is to prevent the release of any concealed messages. It's a standard prison security measure - you don't throw anything back over the wall.

Bin Laden's final house looks a lot like the houses in the more affluent areas of Doha, Qatar that I've seen.

Complete with double-ended security corridor/gates? I think not, but feel free to provide evidence.

Also noted that you pair are in direct contradiction of the professional security analysts I quoted in post #1218, who each say the compound served to imprison bin Laden. I cannot accept your unfounded and illogical preferences over their educated and evidenced conclusions.

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Please list scale of destruction and casualties of the attacks you mentioned, including 9/11, and note the closest match to Pearl Harbor. Failure to accept the obvious fact - that 9/11 is the closest match to Pearl Harbor - will only show you up further.

Apparently, the U.S. was warned of Japanese intentions of bringing America into the war by a double agent and I should also remind you that Pearl Harbor wasn't the only target at that time. The Philippines and British troops in Singapore were also targeted and the Germans were elated, especially U-boat crews.

There is much more you need to learn about Pearl Harbor before bringing Pearl Harbor into an argument.

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Apparently, the U.S. was warned of Japanese intentions of bringing America into the war by a double agent and I should also remind you that Pearl Harbor wasn't the only target at that time. The Philippines and British troops in Singapore were also targeted and the Germans were elated, especially U-boat crews.

There is much more you need to learn about Pearl Harbor before bringing Pearl Harbor into an argument.

Is any of that relevant to what I said? Oh wait... it’s skyeagle... I don’t need to ask.

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Is any of that relevant to what I said? Oh wait... it’s skyeagle... I don’t need to ask.

Question is, why did you bring up Pearl Harbor in the first place?

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Question is, why did you bring up Pearl Harbor in the first place?

Are you not capable of reading my post #1638, which I already just linked to? Oh wait... it’s skyeagle... I don’t need to ask.

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Are you not capable of reading my post #1638, which I already just linked to? Oh wait... it’s skyeagle... I don’t need to ask.

I read it already. In part, it says:

The Neocon government that came to power in 2001 believed that a new Pearl Harbor type attack was a necessary pretext to quickly achieve the goals that would safeguard American pre-eminence into the 21st century.

It is now the 21st century and the U.S. military is broke and America is trillions of dollars in debt and the education level of its students is below the level of many countries. The so-called "new Pearl Harbor" doesn't make any sense in this regard.

The 911 attacks and the two wars have cost the United States billions of dollars and eventually will cost the United States trillions of dollars more in the coming years. That is not what I would call a good reason to initiate a government-sponsored 911 attack from an investment standpoint, but as the facts have it, countries around the world were warning the United States that muslim terrorist would be responsible for the attack on the United States, not the U.S. government. That explains why 911 Truthers have failed to produce evidence of a government conspiracy after more than 11 years since the 911 attacks.

Edited by skyeagle409

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It is now the 21st century and the U.S. military is broke and America is trillions of dollars in debt and the education level of its students is below the level of many countries. The so-called "new Pearl Harbor" doesn't make any sense in this regard.

Whether it makes sense to you or whether any potential benefit was or was not realised is entirely irrelevant. Prior to 2001 it was the vision of those who came to power in the Bush administration that a new Pearl Harbor would act as catalyst to their military/geopolitical agenda. No amount of personal opinion (least of all yours) can change that.

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Psyche

I was a medic, not an infantryman.

Like Allan Alda? Hawkeye Pierce?

So you were pulling my leg when you said you fought for my way of life? You patched up the guys that fought for my way of life? Not that such diminished your role, and I remain thankful for your services wether you felt they were required or not.

It was in the Army in Vietnam that I discovered how deceptive the government is. I learned there first hand that the CIA was in the dope business, and I learned that the practice that drove almost everything else was CYA. Cover Your A==. I learned that is how the government works.

I have no faith in the CIA, never have. A department that has some pictures or something, I do not try to understand what keeps the CIA in action. As I said, if they were private enterprise their results by now would have shut them down. That is not "The Government" I have worked for the Government here, and seen tradesmen charge $35 for a 25mm tek screw, maybe 1 or 2 cents worth. I have seen the Government pay a subcontractor $35,000.00 to move a bloody chair from one building to another. My initials are scratched in the flagpole at PM house. I know the Government to be much less capable than you are telling me they are. I think you witnessed internal graft and corruption, and that exists in every organisation, Governmental and Private. That does not make the Government murderers. Your experience is but one, and have a look right here, we have Skyeagle, an actual Pilot from the same war, who haas a different opinion to you, and without being too cheeky, I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to point out that a Pilot is going to have more "inside" information than a medic.

Thus, discovering years later that the events of 11 September were events staged by the military was not difficult to understand. Bitter, for sure, and very sad and disgusting, but not difficult to understand. In a perverse sense, very much in character.

But they were not, not at all. You are simply of that opinion.

With all due respect, you seem to think the Government is behind everything, UFO's Sandy Hook, 911, you name it, you seem to think the Government is to blame, there is no middle ground with you. This is not the case with Skyeagle, who has differing opinions on individual claims, which to me shows more objectivity. You seem to be blanketing anything that contains the word "Government" with conspiracy. This certainly affects the credibility associated with your claims.

Because I also learned very quickly, along with most other young troops, that all the stories I had been brainwashed with--stopping the advance of Yellow Communism, primarily--was pure hogwash. I learned that Vietnam was no threat to my country whatsoever, and I learned what it feels like to be an invader of a peaceful country. No, not a good feeling.

I was 5 years old when the last Aussie troops were pulled out of the fields. My parents tell a very different story to you, my Father fought in WWII and they were of European descent, and very, very fearful of the Cold War.

Every single piece of literature, documentary and story I have heard my entire life, disagree's with you. I am not going to call all the documents I have read, and all the people I have met liars over one anonymous internet claim, and I am sure you can understand that much.

That you are still replaying that "stop communism" loop in your head all these years later makes perfect sense, considering that you believe the loop playing today regarding the events of 11 September.

Considering that you seem to have zero objectivity, and blame the Government for each and every woe that befalls the planet, I have to take your claims with a good sized grain of salt.

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Whether it makes sense to you or whether any potential benefit was or was not realised is entirely irrelevant.

What reason did 911 Truthers give in the first place?

.... Prior to 2001 it was the vision of those who came to power in the Bush administration that a new Pearl Harbor would act as catalyst to their military/geopolitical agenda.

A military/geopolitical agenda? The 911 attacks cost the U.S. billions of dollars. The U.S. went into Iraq, which cost the U.S. billions of dollars and many lives lost and thousands wounded. The wounded will cost the U.S. government billions more in the coming years and after a number of years, the U.S. pulled its troops out of Iraq.

We went into Afghanistan, which cost the U.S. billions of dollars and many lives lost and thousands of soldiers wounded, and those wounded soldiers from the Afghanistan war will cost the U.S. billions of dollars in the coming years in addition to the billions of dollars that the Iraqi war had cost America. Next year, U.S. combat troops will be pulled out of Afghanistan as well.

As I've said before, the so-called "New Pearl Harbor" idea makes no sense whatsoever because the military is now broke and the U.S. is trillions of dollars in debt because of the 911 attacks and the two wars.

Edited by skyeagle409
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The Swiss ambassador building is clearly nothing like specifics I noted of the bin Laden compound in post #1218. You claim that the Swiss ambassador building has only one entry/exit? I can count at least four.

Your comments also indicate that you confuse a full blown detention facility with a safe-house intended for house-arrest – either is a prison, albeit of a different nature.

I do not see 4, it's on a hill, only 2 sides offer road access.

My comments? What was your comment again?

Really think about each point - the comparison is clear to see; this is ideal match to features of a prison.

But you would like me to reinterpret that on the fly to suit your version of events I take it from your comments?

Your arrogant stance not only assumes you cannot even be wrong, but also states A PRISON. Not safe house does it? It's a strong house, like most affluent people have in such dangerous areas that's about it. Your insistance changes nothing in the real word.

Your response above is ridiculous – the point is the report said the architect worked for the ISI. It’s not that an architect designed the building. It’s that an agent of the ISI designed the building. That you missed this obvious point speaks volumes of your opinions.

Your answer is ridiculous, of course I know the Architect worked for the ISI according to you, your link has nothing confirming this, but you bloody already said so:

There are even reports that the building was designed by an architect who worked for the ISI and that the compound was initially used by the ISI

And? Do all industries in Pakistan keep all their assets forever do they? They cannot rent assets either can they? And where s the best place to hid a tree if not i a forrest? The place looked like crap, it was not looked after, the pictures of the insides if actual Pakistan prisons are much more organised and neat. Anyone can plainly see the place was used for personal living.

Inside a Pakistan Prison

462_PAKISTAN-PRISON-BREAK-O.jpg

And inside Bin Ladens House.

house2_2.jpg

Dead set, you are so full of it.

That doesn’t make sense. If the guards and bin Laden were all attempting to keep hidden, there would be no risk in throwing the ball back. A possible reason the ball was not handed back is to prevent the release of any concealed messages. It's a standard prison security measure - you don't throw anything back over the wall.

Or to keep mouths shut.

In a standard prison, you cannot throw things over walls. Period.

Complete with double-ended security corridor/gates? I think not, but feel free to provide evidence.

Also noted that you pair are in direct contradiction of the professional security analysts I quoted in post #1218, who each say the compound served to imprison bin Laden. I cannot accept your unfounded and illogical preferences over their educated and evidenced conclusions.

Try them with this bolding.

There is no doubt that the ISI knew he was there and helped him. It is my supposition that he wasn’t free to go, the deal was he wasn’t free to go and they protected him.”

My sources tell me that the informant claimed that the Saudis were paying off the Pakistani military and intelligence (ISI) to essentially shelter and keep bin Laden under house arrest in Abbottabad, a city with such a high concentration of military that I'm told there's no equivalent in the US.”

“One of the things that surprised me (in viewing the video) is, with bin Laden having been in this compound for about five, maybe six years, it's a little bit like he was under house arrest. He was really a prisoner, in a sense, in this compound. And so, what we may be looking at is a dimension of the prison that he was in for about five years there in Abbottabad.”

Sounds like a lot of guesswork to me to push the CT further.

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Babe Ruth, Psyche101...

Congrats guys, you just proved that you come from different worlds.

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Are you not capable of reading my post #1638, which I already just linked to? Oh wait... it’s skyeagle... I don’t need to ask.

This?

Whatever has happened to this – someday someone will die – and wall or not – the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decision then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL, is getting the most ‘protection’.

If this is the case, why are the calling UBL the biggest threat, when you said he did nothing?

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For those who hold that 911 was an inside job, I would like to discover why you believe those responsible would have executed this plan.

I can only think of one possible reason that might make sense; to launch a war, to give the armed forces combat experience.

You go.

Thanks

So they can get in on the oil prices. This has been planned way before George Bush 1 was in office. They trained with Osama Bin Ladin (sp? ) Obama is related to both Bush AND Osama... they all gained from the oil prices except for their cousin who's dead. Please dont ask me to proove it. I can... I just dont have time right now.

Ask them whose bombing people now.

Frkn aholes

Edited by SpiritWriter

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Babe Ruth, Psyche101...

Congrats guys, you just proved that you come from different worlds.

We certainly seem to have very different experiences with the Government. I have worked with DFAT as well on a covert mission to the Solomon's, and it was quite different to BR's experiences as well.

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Obama is related to both Bush AND Osama...

If we go back far enough, we're all related. You're right about that. :)

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Psyche

Objectivity?

I can be very objective my friend, and I go to great lengths to be objective on any given subject. FWIW, I am a Libra, and through my whole life have been able to see both sides of any story. I can remain neutral on most stories, but once it becomes obvious, once the preponderance of the evidence is made, I have no problem making my mind up.

You are not aware of it, but I actually defended the OCT on the internet for a number of years. Basically I was just regurgitating the official story as it had been told to me by the media, but I did defend it, though I had questions.

I'm sure we agree Psyche, that life is not always just black and white. There ARE shades of gray. And because you and I know each other only through this bizarre cyber filter, we don't REALLY know each other.

I am very objective in my analysis, but in the matter of the events of 11 September, I have had to reverse my earlier position and recognize that the OCT cannot possibly be true. I am objective at the beginning of ANY analysis, but at some point and in some cases, objectivity is no longer valid in a proper analysis.

I am not happy, and am not proud that the government of my country has become the world's biggest terrorist and biggest hypocrite, no sir. It does not give me any sort of pleasure to point out its crimes. It is a significant psychological barrier to recognize that one's government is responsible for so much wickedness, but I would rather be honest with myself than fool myself.

I wish you and yours all the best.

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Babe Ruth,

I get what you mean in your post to Psyche . I feel the same way about it.

Circumstances have become transparent to me regarding WTC. And also circumstances regarding JFK . I think that one day people wake up and they see things for what they really are , and that in itself is a treat to those doing it.

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You are not aware of it, but I actually defended the OCT on the internet for a number of years.

You should not have changed because facts and evidence do not support the claims of 911 Truthers.

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Reann

IMO, some people are actually incapable of acknowledging certain aspects of reality. The shrinks call it Cognitive Dissonance. Maybe a third of the population?

Sky

No sir, after 4 years of trying to fit square pegs into round holes, all the while never knowing about WTC7, I came to realize that I had been wrong. All the evidence available, most evidence having been destroyed or suppressed, works against the official story.

I strongly suspect we BOTH know that. :yes:

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Reann

IMO, some people are actually incapable of acknowledging certain aspects of reality.

You have to understand that facts and evidence support the official story, not fantasies of 911 Truthers.

No sir, after 4 years of trying to fit square pegs into round holes, all the while never knowing about WTC7, I came to realize that I had been wrong.

You are wrong now!

...All the evidence available, most evidence having been destroyed or suppressed, works against the official story.

Perhaps, you missed this.

Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?

We’ve now read many reports from professionals on the scene about the condition of WTC 7. All of these firsthand reports are in agreement that the building was in imminent danger of collapse due to the damage and fires it sustained.

We’ve also seen that WTC 7’s collapse did not look or sound like an explosive demolition, and we’ve seen still photos and videos that show an immense amount of smoke pouring from the building’s south and east side.

https://sites.google...wtc7resembledac

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academiareviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

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