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Still Waters

Fish cannot feel pain say scientists

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They do "fish sign language" using their tail at that point. :passifier:

Jim-Bob might think they wag their tails because they feel happy.

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I don't know if fish feel pain or not but consider this: All those anglers who carefully return the fish they catch to the river or lake, with very good intentions I'm sure, probably don't know that when a fish is caught and brought out onto land, unhooked and manhandled, the stress of this causes their immune systems to temporarily break down leaving them open to infections and diseases of different kinds. It is highly likely that most if not all fish returned to the water after this ordeal die within days or weeks.

my husband who is an avid angler says they do not die, and he says the proper angler does (should) not manhandle the fish. he says there are ways of catching fish without causing distress to them...................

personally, I do not like it and is the only thing we disagree about, unless the fish is being caught for food.

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thats a really good question there?in my opinion yes they could feel pain still.if its alive it could feel pain because its a living animal whether its brain is the size of grain,peanut or walnut lol.i mean what makes them so different than humans besides the obvious?as for the anglers well i respect them alot for taking care of the fish and making sure they have the most possible environments for the fish and nature itself.and that they still care fo the fishes health and etc.thank you guys.as for the research that says they don't feel pain i think thats all B.S JUST AN EXCUSE TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE TO THE FISH.NEVER BEEN A BIG FAN OF SCIENCE AND IM NOT RELIGIOUS EITHER JUST TO CLEAR THAT OUT TOO.

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Awwww! The RSPCA are cute :passifier:

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In my opinion we simply do not know if they feel pain, we do not know if they are even conscious to begin with! Remember that because you are a sentient conscious human being you project your feelings/emotions onto other animals because there is no way for you to know if a fish is consciously aware of pain. If you take evolution into account just because a fish swims away from a predator does not mean it is experiencing the emotion of fear, it could simply be a reflex that evolved because fish that had that reflex were more likely to survive, thus passing it on to their offspring. It does not mean that they actually FEEL pain, nor does it mean that they actually FEEL fear. We simply do not know, and we can speculate all we want, but the science is showing that it is unlikely they feel pain in a manner like we do simply because of their biology.

I think the jury is still out on this one - Einsteinium

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I really can't see the point of capturing something, putting it through a trauma just to look at it and put it back. Each to their own I guess.

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I really don't think we know enough about the brain to make the judgement call at this point of what they feel or not feel.

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I am a Fisherman,and I catch more fish than the regular guys and gals that fish,the onlyones who out fish me are the pros. Of all the years I've fish I have never seen or saw a fish that I couldn't catch,There have been times that I release a fish only to catch the same fish 2 minutes later,So they either have little pain or the pain is so little that it does not remember that it was caught only a few minutes ago and can go back to it's life with out much or any rememberance of what just happened to it,I catch and release bass,but as for catfish"If they are of legal size" I eat them. I don't think they feel much of anything,As for fish getting scared,well yes they have fear like most living creatures,when you scare fish they swimm away or just quit biting.

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I don't know if fish feel pain or not but consider this: All those anglers who carefully return the fish they catch to the river or lake, with very good intentions I'm sure, probably don't know that when a fish is caught and brought out onto land, unhooked and manhandled, the stress of this causes their immune systems to temporarily break down leaving them open to infections and diseases of different kinds. It is highly likely that most if not all fish returned to the water after this ordeal die within days or weeks.

Sir you are wrong to belive that any fish that is captured and released Die within a week,Where the heck you get this info,Dont spread fake rumores that come out of your mind just to say something on this site,Without your proof you dumb the people who read what you write,I my self have caught fish and transfered them to my private pond and they are still living,Highly likely that the fish dieing after a week is just missinformation on your part,but in your stead I do know if the fish is handled roughly they will die,not every angler knows how to handle fish and yes some should not handle any,after more than 42 years of fishing has taught me that if you don't know how to catch and release properly fish will die,after all the years I've been fishing I found that if your fish is too stressed it is better to keep them and eat them than to release them back,better to have a fish meal than a wasted dead fish floating.
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I fish barbless, I catch fewer fish but they are easier to get them off. Also when you handle a fish wet your hands before you touch it, that way you don't damage their slim coating as bad. I use to worked a tropical fish farm, You would be surpised how much handling they can take.

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i suck at fishing so they dont have to worry about me >.>

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Whatever anglers do with fish, it is not any more cruel than what fish do to each other. Getting swallowed alive and then dissolved in stomach acid... how does that sound.

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Personally, I have entertained this question for many years and would have to conclude that they do, however not in the sense that we would think of it. People have a highly developed sense of pain, burns, paper cuts, hemmaroids etc but still have a pain threshold that shuts down the pain recognition with serious non-threatening injury like a break, cut or crushed didget. It then serves to protect that injury from sustaining further damage. I've had my share :o A fish's recovery success rate after being 'hooked' depends on being 1) recovered by the time of release and 2) not being hooked 'deeply' or sustaining physical damage that causes infection or shock. Shock may require nothing more than a touch to revive a motionless fish which will dart away. Otherwise shorelines would be littered with dead, released fish. I think a fish feels pain as we would consider a static shock from a door knob to be pain. Beyond that point pain does not exist. It serves to trigger a flight response. A hooked fish is responding to a 'pressure' that is being applied to the fish via the line and rod. Not pain. Release the pressure and the fish stops running, a technique I've used many times. Many fish fight during their 'spawn', which is also why I like'n pain to a static shock. Just look at the teeth of a sockeye salmon on the spawning bed. Fish are sensitive to electricity such as a shocking technique used by state departments during fish population surveys. Pain in fish appears to be extremely low grade at best.

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Fish have a nervous system no? in which case the suggestion is that yes they do feel pain Like every other creature with a nervous system.

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Well, that contradicts what the EU parliament concluded in 2010

"whereas Article 13 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union recognises fish as sentient beings and provides that the Union and the Member States shall, in formulating and implementing their policies on fisheries, pay full regard to the welfare requirements of the animals,"

Just search for "sentient" in the article

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my husband who is an avid angler says they do not die, and he says the proper angler does (should) not manhandle the fish. he says there are ways of catching fish without causing distress to them...................

personally, I do not like it and is the only thing we disagree about, unless the fish is being caught for food.

How does your husband know the fish don't die? Does he tag them and follow their progress? Also, it's impossible to catch a fish and unhook it without manhandling. It is also impossible to catch a fish, even just using a net, without causing it stress. Go here for further enlightenment paying particular attention to points 9 and 10: http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Info/Fish-Stress

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There's no reason to think that they don't feel pain. The same science that claims their nervous system is too primitive to feel pain has done experiments on lesser animals with pain as a negative stimulus. The bait feels pain when stuck with the hook. It starts writhing at the first touch of the point of the hook, long before it's trapped. If something with the brain of a worm can feel pain then surely a fish can. As a younger man I was an avid fisherman but I gave it up years ago because I could no longer justify causing pain in another creature merely for my own amusement. I agree with the previous poster who keeps aquariums. I kept fish for many years and they are more intelligent that we give them credit for. Much can be explained by instinct but what do we call it when instinct adapts to non-natural situations? It's quite clear to anyone familiar with animals, whether as pets or prey, that they are capable of thinking. Sensing pain seems much more elemental than thought so I would think we'd have to go much farther down the food chain before finding a living creature that does not feel pain.

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I've been saying this for years, their reactions aren't due to pain, but simply a flight stimuli. Fish can swallow a hook, barb themselves, and swim around and even go after other food after. Its only when you tug on it that they know their caught. Hell, even if you can't get the hook out, there's a good chance they'll survive anyhow. The hook eventually gets dissolved and falls apart, as long as it doesn't obstruct all food food from getting in. And they can go months without eating anyhow. Primitive delicious little creatures..

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Pain is an alarm system for self danger. If animals don't evolve to feel pain then they wouldn't know how much damage certain actions would do to their bodies. Pain helps in survival by avoiding things and activities that are destructive to the animal.

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How does your husband know the fish don't die? Does he tag them and follow their progress? Also, it's impossible to catch a fish and unhook it without manhandling. It is also impossible to catch a fish, even just using a net, without causing it stress. Go here for further enlightenment paying particular attention to points 9 and 10: http://www.watergard...nfo/Fish-Stress

there are many big carp which have names and get caught season after season and yes, many fish do get tagged.

As for the manhandling, as I have said i am not the angler, but my husband has said many anglers have medical kits specially for fish with damaged scales or damaged mouths. There is a difference between manhandling the fish and not caring for it, to catching it and causing as less distress as possible.

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James Rose has been a long-term apologist for the angling industry. This is a review article only, offering opinion. There is a wealth of scientific research that makes it clear that fish do fish pain. For details on the real science see www.fishpain.com

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Who cares? Fish are for eating anyway.

to a flesh eating bacteria, or possibly a great cat , so are you. Do you care now?

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I really don't think we know enough about the brain to make the judgement call at this point of what they feel or not feel.

I think it might be a good assumption that all living things feel pain until we know for sure otherwise.

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I cant believe you guys are s ill debating this. Makes me want to stick a hook or club anyone that says fish dont feel pain to make a point (j/k). But really need I go research some videos to end this one.

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Whatever anglers do with fish, it is not any more cruel than what fish do to each other. Getting swallowed alive and then dissolved in stomach acid... how does that sound.

What fish do to each other is perfectly natural. What anglers do to fish is simply idle pleasure - sport!

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