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Still Waters

Fish cannot feel pain say scientists

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I'm not sure about pain, but I think I can prove that fish feel discomfort. Anyone ever heard of Ick or Ich (not German for "I")? Fish develop spots and start to rub themselves on any abrasive surfaces constantly to relieve the irritation. If they can't stand this kind of discomfort, then I would think they are probably able to feel pain.

Another example, my dog was sleeping under the coffee table the other day and when I called him he reared up and bumped his head so hard that it jolted everything on the table. I know he must've been seeing stars but he still came up to me to say, "What???" even though he didn't display any sign of pain...

Edited by Mantis914
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We can't even stop the needless torture and killing of millions of fellow human beings each year and yet some of you are worried about if a fish feels pain? Priorities people, priorities.

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We can't even stop the needless torture and killing of millions of fellow human beings each year and yet some of you are worried about if a fish feels pain? Priorities people, priorities.

That's a false dichotomy. It's possible to be concerned about both.

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I'm not sure about pain, but I think I can prove that fish feel discomfort. Anyone ever heard of Ick or Ich (not German for "I")? Fish develop spots and start to rub themselves on any abrasive surfaces constantly to relieve the irritation. If they can't stand this kind of discomfort, then I would think they are probably able to feel pain.

Another example, my dog was sleeping under the coffee table the other day and when I called him he reared up and bumped his head so hard that it jolted everything on the table. I know he must've been seeing stars but he still came up to me to say, "What???" even though he didn't display any sign of pain...

The fish condition that you mention is more commonly known as 'white spot' and is a parasitic infection. It is easy to cure if treated early but if allowed to go untreated it is fatal. It would most definitely cause the infected fish to feel irritated.

The article from Practical Fishkeeping magazine at the following link gives a much better understanding of the current question of whether or not fish feel pain: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5437&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=January_18_2013&utm_term=Dont_say_fish_cant_feel_pain!&utm_content=html

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James Rose has been a long-term apologist for the angling industry. This is a review article only, offering opinion. There is a wealth of scientific research that makes it clear that fish do fish pain. For details on the real science see www.fishpain.com

See also: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5437&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=January_18_2013&utm_term=Dont_say_fish_cant_feel_pain!&utm_content=html

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Thank you Mr S for posting. I have gotten to were I really hate reporters.

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Thank you Mr S for posting. I have gotten to were I really hate reporters.

Reporters love to put a spin on things, if i remember correctly an old lecturer of mine was in the papers with headlines that he had found that a species of invertebrate could save us all from global warming. Turns out in reality he had found that the invertebrate was able to survive large temperature variations, a little less glamorous than saving the world ;)

Heres the paper from the OP i think. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/faf.12010/abstract

By the looks of the review its not saying that the don't get the sensory feeling of pain, its more that they dont percieve pain in the way mammals do, although im not an expert from the studies i would say they do.

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Thats old agenda which wanted to describe hierarchy in life world.

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Do humans feel pain? There's only one way to find out! :clap:

http://www.youtube.c...&v=Fhm8_1yUqug#!

Edited by MrSerendipity

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I really can't see the point of capturing something, putting it through a trauma just to look at it and put it back. Each to their own I guess.

Didn't you catch lightning bugs when you were little?

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They are highly sort after prize catch over here, on most carp lakes the regulars know the stock well, their size at the last catch, their feeding habits etc....the fish get better treatment then many of the fellas wives ;)

Really? Interesting. Are they eaten? Carp is not a very good fish to eat. Up and down the Mississippi there are bounties out on asian carp. I think as much as $1 each in some parts. The fish is ruining the river and connecting rivers as well as nearby lakes.

Hopefully they go the way of the thylacine, but I don't see it ever happening.

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Not so. It stops Hindus, Jains, Buddhsts and all the ethical vegans and vegetarians in the world.

But they kill the plants. :tsu:

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skookum, on 14 January 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I really can't see the point of capturing something, putting it through a trauma just to look at it and put it back. Each to their own I guess.

We could ask our alien abductors what their point is.

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That's a false dichotomy. It's possible to be concerned about both.

Yes it is possible to be concerned about both, but my point is that no matter how concerned you are if people are willing to kill and hurt other people, then logically people will keep on killing and hurting animals including fish. I never said anything about concern, my post was about how futile it is to hope that people will stop hurting and killing animals if people cannot even stop hurting and killing each other. That is just logic.

We can be concerned all we want, but unless that concern translates into change of what use is it?

-Einsteinium

Edited by Einsteinium

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But they kill the plants. :tsu:

Didn't you ever hear of the Buddahists that don't even eat the root or seed of plants. Weird as it may seem some don't believe in killing the plants.

We don't have to go this far just to say other living things also feel pain one way or the other!

It is like believing I only feel my pain so when I hurt others it doesn't matter.

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Yes it is possible to be concerned about both, but my point is that no matter how concerned you are if people are willing to kill and hurt other people, then logically people will keep on killing and hurting animals including fish. I never said anything about concern, my post was about how futile it is to hope that people will stop hurting and killing animals if people cannot even stop hurting and killing each other. That is just logic.

We can be concerned all we want, but unless that concern translates into change of what use is it?

-Einsteinium

You are so right !

But we can't give up hope to try make things better.

We each can do a small part in some way to be a good influence.

Each action can create a domino effect good or bad.

So just as we can uplift the good, we also must not tolerate even the smaller evils that we can influence.

The world is full of bounty to share if people would just grow up and be compassionate of others and all life!

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I think the late Kurt Cobain addressed this theory along time ago in Nirvanas song "Something in the way", with the line, "its ok to eat fish, as they don't have any feelings.........".

Long live Kurt!

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Just something for everyone to ponder, as I keep seeing 'pain' projected onto other species the same as it is in human beings.

I will liken the brain to a computer, more specifically RAM and cache memory. Your brain executes several processes all at once (RAM) and remembers past experiences (cache memory).

The human brain is capable of more RAM and cache memory than any other known species. With this said, think of video game consoles (computers that were specified for game playing). We're a current console (Xbox 360, PS3), and the fish are an atari (in reality, for comparison, they're probably closer to the original 'Pong' game). Our current consoles are able to process more information that appeals to our sensory organs (sight, sound, and feel, thanks to rumbling in the controllers). Right now, play an RPG and the world you are playing in is very convincing; the sights you see are incredible, the sound effects are extremely accurate, and when I get hit with a weapon from behind, I know because of the rumbling my controller does. All of that takes a lot of processing power, more than previous consoles could produce.

In real life, pain is part of our sense of touch. We have more RAM (processing power) than fish, so we will have a more detailed sense of pain in comparison to the fish. So when a fish is hooked, it isn't feeling the same thing you feel when you accidentally hook your own lip.

What exactly it feels is what's being discussed, but no one should be using how it would make us feel as a comparison, as our brains are exponentially more advanced than a fish.

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Just something for everyone to ponder, as I keep seeing 'pain' projected onto other species the same as it is in human beings.

I will liken the brain to a computer, more specifically RAM and cache memory. Your brain executes several processes all at once (RAM) and remembers past experiences (cache memory).

The human brain is capable of more RAM and cache memory than any other known species. With this said, think of video game consoles (computers that were specified for game playing). We're a current console (Xbox 360, PS3), and the fish are an atari (in reality, for comparison, they're probably closer to the original 'Pong' game). Our current consoles are able to process more information that appeals to our sensory organs (sight, sound, and feel, thanks to rumbling in the controllers). Right now, play an RPG and the world you are playing in is very convincing; the sights you see are incredible, the sound effects are extremely accurate, and when I get hit with a weapon from behind, I know because of the rumbling my controller does. All of that takes a lot of processing power, more than previous consoles could produce.

In real life, pain is part of our sense of touch. We have more RAM (processing power) than fish, so we will have a more detailed sense of pain in comparison to the fish. So when a fish is hooked, it isn't feeling the same thing you feel when you accidentally hook your own lip.

What exactly it feels is what's being discussed, but no one should be using how it would make us feel as a comparison, as our brains are exponentially more advanced than a fish.

yeah. Another part of that is- a huge part of the misery of pain as we know it is conscious awareness of the pain feeding back into it, which adds a horrendous layer to the experience. That kinda experience isn't possible for animals of low intelligence. And that's gotta be the #1 thing that truly sucks about being the kinda sophisticated sentient creatures we are. The possibilities for pain.

Edited by ad hoc

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