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joc

WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken

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It might be that the exoskeleton was aluminum...

The facade contained aluminum! :yes:

...and not stainless steel, but I doubt it. I'm staying with the SS version, but would be happy to accept aluminum if somebody can provide a good authority.

Well, let's take another look.

Aluminum and the World Trade Center Disaster

Aluminum was present in two significant forms at the World Trade Center on 9-11:

(i) By far the largest source of aluminum at the WTC was the exterior cladding on WTC 1 & 2. In quantitative terms it may be estimated that 2,000,000 kg of anodized 0.09

auminum sheet was used, in the form of 43,600 panels, to cover the fa€ade of each Twin Tower.

(i) The other major source of aluminum at the WTC was the aluminum alloy airframes of the Boeing 767 aircraft that crashed into the Twin Towers on the morning of 9-11. It may be estimated that, on impact, these aircraft weighed about 124,000 kg including fuel; of this weight, 46,000 kg comprised the fuselage and 21,000 kg made up the mass of the wings – all of which were fabricated from aluminum alloys.

Modern airframes are invariably constructed from series 2000 aluminum alloys. Alloy 2024 is a typical example containing 93 % Al, 4.5 % Cu, 1.5 % Mg, and 0.5 % each of Mn and Fe. These metallic additions to aluminum lower the melting point of the alloy from a value of 660 C, for pure aluminum, to about 548 C for alloy 2024.

This relatively low temperature indicates that the fires within the Twin Towers were quite capable of melting at least some of the Boeing 767 aluminum airframe structures remaining in the WTC before its collapse.

Yamasaki's design included building facades sheathed in aluminum-alloy

http://en.wikipedia....ld_Trade_Center

Edited by skyeagle409

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Just a quickie really, what actually did cause tower 7 to fall the way it did, and does anyone really believe the answer given (either way)?

Fire, was responsible for the collapse of WTC7. Buckling was noted on WTC7, which indicated that fire was having an effect on its structure.

WTC7

Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse.

Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, "At the edge of the south face you could see that it is very heavily damaged." [Firehouse Magazine, 5/02]

1) Fireman saying there was "a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors." "I would say it was probably about a third of it".

2) A laymen officer the fireman was standing next to said, "that building doesn’t look straight." He then says "It didn’t look right".

3) They put a transit on it and afterward were "pretty sure she was going to collapse."

4) They "saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13".

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

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It might be that the exoskeleton was aluminum and not stainless steel, but I doubt it. I'm staying with the SS version, but would be happy to accept aluminum if somebody can provide a good authority.

As is always the case with you, your "doubts" (a.k.a. willful ignorance) do not change facts.

http://amhistory.si....cord.asp?ID=104

104_238.jpg

World Trade Center aluminum

Description: This crumpled piece of exterior sheathing from the World Trade Center was recovered from the debris pile.

Context: The twin towers of the World Trade Center, a New York City landmark and the tallest buildings in the world when completed in 1973, were noted for their incredible 110-story height and their gleaming exterior. The towers were clad in an aluminum alloy sheathing that gave the buildings a golden sheen at sunrise and sunset. The material covered the closely-spaced exterior steel columns, enhancing their soaring appearance.

http://amhistory.si.....asp?ID=204&z=0

104_204.jpg

Aluminum cladding

Rough-sorted aluminum cladding from the World Trade Center at the Staten Island recovery site.

http://amhistory.si.....asp?ID=668&z=0

104_668.jpg

South tower of the World Trade Center

The highly reflective aluminum sheathing of the Twin Towers added to the building’s impact as a memorable landmark.

http://amhistory.si....cript.asp?ID=46

curator8.jpg

David Shayt

September 11 Collecting Curator

Museum Specialist, Division of Cultural History

"We also collected from those yards a twisted piece of the aluminum cladding that wrapped the steel, that gave the Trade Centers their characteristic shine. It was a special anodized aluminum sheet that was bolted to the outsides of the steel columns--quickly stripped off and folded up like wrapping paper during the collapse of the buildings. There were great knots of it all over the Schnitzer scrap yard. I found a piece that was both twisted, but also had a sense of what it used to look like, some straight elements and some ways in which--that showed how it was attached to the steel"

http://www.michiganr...-history-museum

WTC%20photo_0.jpg

A piece of aluminum cladding from the World Trade Center is going on display at Castle Museum in Saginaw.

Jeff Schrier / Saginaw News

http://911research.w...s/wtccons1.html

wtc_1938.jpg

Photo of the Twin Tower During Construction

This photograph shows the Twin Towers from the southeast during their construction. The North Tower is behind the South Tower. Cranes on the towers' tops can be seen hoisting construction materials. The lower portion of the North Tower is lighter in color because of the installation of the aluminum cladding over the exerior steel columns.

http://www.alcoa.com/building/en/news/news_items/wtc.asp

Alcoa and the World Trade Center

In the late 1960's, Alcoa was approached to help design a new alloy for the World Trade Center. Alcoa created a unique aluminum "skin" and novel cladding system for the architects. T, a signature lightweight alloy developed by Alcoa for the World Trade Center, is credited with giving many tall buildings around the world their shiny, graceful appearance. Aluminum was used extensively in the construction, including the covering of the trademark Gothic forks around the base of the buildings.

Is that enough? Does that alleviate your "doubts"? Do you wish to do something you have never done here yet and stop playing the hypocrite by actually backing up your claim of "stainless steel cladding" with some kind of actual evidence?

Yes Raptor, evidence IS important in any analysis, or debate. When evidence is ignored, it makes for poor analysis and dishonest debate.

This is the crux of your problem here.

YOU refuse to provide any evidence, then insist that we satisfy your "doubts" by providing evidence for the facts you ignore.

YOU then ignore the evidence provided.

YOU continually provide poor analysis.

YOU constantly debate dishonestly.

YOU need to change that.

Have you figured out yet that you are the poster-boy for intellectual dishonesty here?

Cz

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Cz

OK, I will accept that the 'sheathing' is aluminum. What's next? What does that prove, and what does it change regarding the events of the day?

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Now, if we could just determine the source of the energy for those fires.

Read my posts. I gave you a list of things in a building which can burn.
Let's say that indeed the aircraft aluminum was melted by the fires at the point of impact as you and Sky have suggested. I was a bit of a pyromaniac in my youth, and experimented melting the softer metals including aluminum. So it melts up on the 80th floor, and begins its trek to the basement to form the molten pools. How far down do you suppose it would go before turning back to solid form?

Depends very much on quantity, temperature and how much of a clear drop it gets. A small drop on a staircase would solidify on the way down, a big flow down a lift shaft would remain molten.

However, my position is that melting is also going to occur in the debris pile. The measured temperatures in the satellite photos show the fires were hot enough to melt aluminium and there were thousands of tonnes of aluminium present.

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Cz

OK, I will accept that the 'sheathing' is aluminum.

You should had have done so a long time ago,

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Well I did now.

Same question to you--what difference does it make?

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Well I did now.

Same question to you--what difference does it make?

Question is, why did you continue to ignore facts, evidence and references provided to you on a number of occasion?

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No Sky. Try as you may, this is not about ME.

This is about the events of 11 September, and the facts surrounding it, which are many.

It's not about me and it's not about aluminum sheathing on the towers. How do we proceed now that I've admitted it was aluminum and not stainless steel? So some tour guide back in 1982 put out some bad information? So I misunderstood him? What does that prove? Nothing.

The point is that the Official Story is a hoax, no matter whether it was stainless or aluminum. The molten metal observed by many is a huge anomaly that makes the official story impossible.

That and the impossible cell phone calls, the absence of Boeings where they were supposed to be, the methodical and criminal coverup, etc etc.

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BAbe Ruth whare do you get your information ? Really ? :no:

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No Sky. Try as you may, this is not about ME.

I'm afraid it is about you. For a couple of weeks and over half this thread, you've been denying a simple fact that anyone with a scrap of nous could have looked up for themselves. You've been ignoring anything that Sky and I have posted, and all because you'd have an easier time with your claim of molten steel if you didn't have to accept the presence of thousands of tonnes of a metal with a much lower melting point. You need to ask yourself why you are so reluctant to accept facts that don't support your opinions. You also need to ask yourself how many other things you think you know about 911 are also wrong. People don't take your claims seriously because you have such an obvious case of confirmation bias. You need to be honest with yourself about this.
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THe Wheels on this Buss will keep going round and Round until the Sun burns out Im afraid ! BR is on his own manifistdestiny. Or at the LEast walking down the one way Road to No Where ! :no:

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No Sky. Try as you may, this is not about ME.

This is about the events of 11 September, and the facts surrounding it, which are many.

It's not about me and it's not about aluminum sheathing on the towers. How do we proceed now that I've admitted it was aluminum and not stainless steel? So some tour guide back in 1982 put out some bad information? So I misunderstood him? What does that prove? Nothing.

The point is that the Official Story is a hoax, no matter whether it was stainless or aluminum. The molten metal observed by many is a huge anomaly that makes the official story impossible.

That and the impossible cell phone calls, the absence of Boeings where they were supposed to be, the methodical and criminal coverup, etc etc.

blah blah blah almost 4000 posts and not a single shred of evidence brought forward by you, I wonder how it must feel for you to be proven wrong with every post you make, i also wonder how it feels to be so gullible and chock full of lies and misinformation. keep trying though br maybe one day you'll get out of the corner you firmly planted yourself in, and maybe one day you can accept the fact that your "facts" are utter bull****.

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BAbe Ruth whare do you get your information ? Really ? :no:

from fools and liars obviously.

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Help me understand. This pools of molten metal. Is there any photos etc. also what color was it as alloy and steel vary greatly yet no one seems to have pointed this out.

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No Sky. Try as you may, this is not about ME.

You continued to ignore facts and evidence from reliable sources and yet you continued to throw in stainless steel when it was clear that others were talking aluminum, not stainless steel.

It's not about me and it's not about aluminum sheathing on the towers. How do we proceed now that I've admitted it was aluminum and not stainless steel?

Well, it is about time!! Now, when are you going to admit that a B-757 crashed into the Pentagon and another B-757 crashed near Shanksville?

The molten metal observed by many is a huge anomaly that makes the official story impossible.

Considering that temperatures reached the melting point of aluminum but not steel, what does that indicate?,

That and the impossible cell phone calls...

On the contrary, the majority of phone calls were made from Airfones, not cell phones and the cell phone calls were verified as well, so once again, you got caught distorting the facts.

...the absence of Boeings where they were supposed to be,

That doesn't work, because you are now changing course by stating the "Boeings where they were suppose be." I saw through that, BR!! Just another attempt at distortion and deception.

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The point is that the Official Story is a hoax, no matter whether it was stainless or aluminum.

Apparently, experts do not agree with your assessment and add to the fact that you continue to distort facts and evidence on a regular basis.

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HW Bush is in on it. Wait for it. The truth will come out.

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HW Bush is in on it. Wait for it. The truth will come out.

11 years and counting!

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11 years and counting!

He ain't getting any younger nor many of his co-conspiracists! Someone is going to talk perhaps many.

Edited by acidhead

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He ain't getting any younger nor many of his co-conspiracists! Someone is going to talk perhaps many.

Chances are, no one is going to implicate the US government.

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Chances are, no one is going to implicate the US government.

time will tell a tale skyeagle

Edited by acidhead

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time will tell a tale skyeagle

No evidence, no deal.

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No evidence, no deal.

Today is an age where the individual doesn't need the TV to get their information.

"You can stop an invasion of armies but you cannot stop an invasion of ideas" --Ron Paul

Edited by acidhead

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Today is an age where the individual doesn't need the TV to get their information.

I already know there is no evidence implicating the U.S. government in the way 911 conspiracist have claimed. That is why their claims have been shot down using common sense, facts and evidence. In other words, they didn't bother to do their homework. I bring up Cleveland airport and United 93 from time to time as a clear example of what I am talking about. In case you missed it, 911 conspiracist claimed that United 93 didn't crash near Shanksville and instead, landed at Cleveland airport and that its passengers were seen transported away.

Had they done their homework, they would have determined that the aircraft at Cleveland airport was actually Delta 1989, a B-767, and the passengers were scientist that disembarked from a KC-135. I might add that United 93 was a B-757.

"You can stop an invasion of armies but you cannot stop an invasion of ideas" --Ron Paul

Hitler was stopped, along with Tojo, Milosovic, other tyrants.

Edited by skyeagle409

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