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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken

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Of course they examined the steel, but I guess you overlooked other videos relating to that effect as well.

The NIST makes no mention of any of the actual steel from WTC 7 and refers to pre-existing documents which themselves assert that no steel was recovered from WTC 7.

But don't take my word for it, Skyeagle....lol

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page iii

"no steel from the building was recovered"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xxxvii

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xliv

"no steel from WTC 7 was recovered from the site"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 1

"NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 114

"No metallography could be carried out because no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 115

"Because NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7, it is not possible to make any statements about its quality."

- NCSTAR 1-3D, page 273

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3E, page 37

"No steel from WTC 7 has been identified from the pieces of recovered WTC steel in NIST's possession... Properties were estimated from available test data in the literature."

- NIST June 2004 Progress Report (Volume 1, Page 17)

That WTC5 did in fact, suffer serious localized impact damage.

So why the hell are you arguing with me when I have said that even though WTC 5 suffered from fires and impact damage then?? :blink:

You are indeed a strange one Skyeagle....lol :)

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The NIST makes no mention of any of the actual steel from WTC 7 and refers to pre-existing documents which themselves assert that no steel was recovered from WTC 7.

But don't take my word for it, Skyeagle....lol

You might want to check this out.

WTC7

http://www.fema.gov/...fema403_apc.pdf

And,

As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1 and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire. Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:

  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire and/or impacted by the aircraft.
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact zone.
  • Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.
  • Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices.
  • Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged.
  • Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.
  • Any piece that, in the engineer's professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.

The engineers were able to identify many pieces by their markings. Each piece of steel was originally stenciled in white or yellow with information telling where it came from and where it was going. A sample of the markings can be seen in Figure D-5.

fig-D-14.jpg

Figure D-14

WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors.

fig-D-15.jpg

http://911research.w.../WTC_apndxD.htm

Edited by skyeagle409

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You might want to check this out.

WTC7

http://www.fema.gov/...fema403_apc.pdf

And,

As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1 and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire. Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:

  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire and/or impacted by the aircraft.
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact zone.
  • Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.
  • Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices.
  • Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged.
  • Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.
  • Any piece that, in the engineer's professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.

The engineers were able to identify many pieces by their markings. Each piece of steel was originally stenciled in white or yellow with information telling where it came from and where it was going. A sample of the markings can be seen in Figure D-5.

fig-D-14.jpg

Figure D-14 WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors.

fig-D-15.jpg

http://911research.w.../WTC_apndxD.htm

I do not need to check anything out....lol

The NIST in their collapse report did not examine any steel. Showing me other reports doesn't change that fact....lol

As I said, the NIST "refers to pre-existing documents"....like FEMA.

Are you seriously this slow??...lol

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I do not need to check anything out....

But, you said that steel from WTC7 was not R-E-C-O-V-E-R-E-D!!

WTC Steel Data Collection

D.1 Introduction

WTC steel data collection efforts were undertaken by the Building Performance Study (BPS) Team and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY) to identify significant steel pieces from WTC 1, 2, 5, and 7 for further study.

The methods used to identify and document steel pieces are presented, as well as a spreadsheet that documents the data for steel pieces inspected at various sites from October 2001 through March 2002.

Figure D-17 Seat connection in fire-damaged W14 column from WTC 7.

fig-D-18.jpg

Edited by skyeagle409

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Chief Daniel Nigro

Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro

Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

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Voices of 911

! Edited by skyeagle409

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But, you said that steel from WTC7 was not R-E-C-O-V-E-R-E-D!!

WTC Steel Data Collection

D.1 Introduction

WTC steel data collection efforts were undertaken by the Building Performance Study (BPS) Team and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY) to identify significant steel pieces from WTC 1, 2, 5, and 7 for further study.

The methods used to identify and document steel pieces are presented, as well as a spreadsheet that documents the data for steel pieces inspected at various sites from October 2001 through March 2002.

Figure D-17 Seat connection in fire-damaged W14 column from WTC 7.

fig-D-18.jpg

What I said and what the NIST said when investigating WTC7 was.....

no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page iii

"no steel from the building was recovered"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xxxvii

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xliv

"no steel from WTC 7 was recovered from the site"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 1

"NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 114

"No metallography could be carried out because no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 115

"Because NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7, it is not possible to make any statements about its quality."

- NCSTAR 1-3D, page 273

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3E, page 37

"No steel from WTC 7 has been identified from the pieces of recovered WTC steel in NIST's possession... Properties were estimated from available test data in the literature."

- NIST June 2004 Progress Report (Volume 1, Page 17)

Any reference the NIST used refers to the FEMA report....lol

Do you know the difference between FEMA reports (which doesn't specify how WTC7 collapsed) and the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC7.

Do you also know that in the case of WTC1 & 2, that the FEMA said the building pancake collapsed, yet the NIST disagree?

So which one do you support? FEMA's Pancake or the NISTs Truss Theory because they both can't be right? lol

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Chief Daniel Nigro

Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro

Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

Sorry but this fire fighter is not a structural engineer so according to your own logic, his account should be completely discounted....lol

Edited by Stundie
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Voices of 911

!

The sounds of elevators falling....lol

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Of course it doesn't make any sense to you, cause you are Skyeagle. A man capable of leaping logic like superman can leap mountains.

Lets say I have a mansion which is a white elephant, costing me a fortune and not making me any money, I want to knock it down but I can't cause it's a listed building, which means it's protected by law from being knocked down. I try to find a buyer but no one initially interested, but then I find a buyer, it's a friend of mine, he buys the mansion from me and then takes out extra insurance in the event that there is gas explosion.

A few months later there is a gas explosions at the mansion, which causes the mansion to collapses.

My friend gets paid much more from the insurance than he paid for it. He gets to build a new state of the art mansion which might not be the white elephant that I once owned.

Would you think there is nothing suspicious about in this scenario at all??

I know exactly why WTC5 didn't collapse completely, because the building had plenty of strength in the undamaged parts of the structure which were not affected by the fire and more than capable of bearing any of the load which had been weakened.

As would be expected in almost any building except for maybe toy factories or an over pass....lol

Oh and WTC 1, 2 & 7 too. lol

What you describe regarding the insurance fraud is sometimes referred to affectionately as "jewish lightning". Whatever one chooses to cause it, that's what played out with Silverstein at WTC.

You bring into the conversation the other WTC buildings, which few people talk about. I suppose many are not even aware of them, but the damage done to those buildings, and the records and valuables they contained are also very important.

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<p>

<br />

The sounds of elevators falling....<br />

Edited by skyeagle409

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What I said and what the NIST said when investigating WTC7 was.....

no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page iii

"no steel from the building was recovered"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xxxvii

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page xliv

"no steel from WTC 7 was recovered from the site"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 1

"NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 114

"No metallography could be carried out because no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3, page 115

"Because NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7, it is not possible to make any statements about its quality."

- NCSTAR 1-3D, page 273

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

- NCSTAR 1-3E, page 37

"No steel from WTC 7 has been identified from the pieces of recovered WTC steel in NIST's possession... Properties were estimated from available test data in the literature."

- NIST June 2004 Progress Report (Volume 1, Page 17)

Any reference the NIST used refers to the FEMA report....lol

Do you know the difference between FEMA reports (which doesn't specify how WTC7 collapsed) and the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC7.

Do you also know that in the case of WTC1 & 2, that the FEMA said the building pancake collapsed, yet the NIST disagree?

So which one do you support? FEMA's Pancake or the NISTs Truss Theory because they both can't be right? lol

As it was shown, you had claimed that WTC7 steel was not recovered and yet, the photos are of recovered steel from WTC7. Time for you to move on.

Edited by skyeagle409

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What you describe regarding the insurance fraud is sometimes referred to affectionately as "jewish lightning". Whatever one chooses to cause it, that's what played out with Silverstein at WTC.

You bring into the conversation the other WTC buildings, which few people talk about. I suppose many are not even aware of them, but the damage done to those buildings, and the records and valuables they contained are also very important.

I am very sure that muslim hijackers had other things on their minds when they flew American 11 and United 175 into the WTC buildings. They didn't care about financial dealings of Mr. Silverstein nor anyone else in regards to the WTC buildings. That was evident many years ago when the Philippine government revealed terrorist plans to fly airliners into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, the WTC buildings and other American landmarks.

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As it was shown, you had claimed that WTC7 steel was not recovered and yet, the photos are of recovered steel from WTC7.

The NIST who did the investigation into why the WTC7 collapsed, didn't have any of the recovered steel.

Maybe you need to read the report...lol

FEMA did recover some of the steel from WTC7 including the vaporised steel, but they never investigated why the WTC7 collapsed.

Hence the photos you have are all from the FEMA reports and not from the NIST report. Any reference the NIST used in their investigation was from other sources such as the FEMA reports because as they have said numerous times in their report..

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

Time for you to move on.
No need for me to move anywhere...lol

Its clear that you do not understand the difference between the NIST and FEMA, hence you are conflating the two...lol

Edited by Stundie

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The NIST who did the investigation into why the WTC7 collapsed, didn't have any of the recovered steel.

But, you claimed that NO steel was recovered from WTC7, but as the photos have shown, you were incorrect and I might add that NIST wasn't the only one who concluded that WTC7 collapsed due to fire. Name other companies and investigators that concluded that the WTC buildings collapsed due to fire.

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"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

No need for me to move anywhere..

NIST Releases Final WTC 7 Investigation Report

For Immediate Release: November 25, 2008

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) last week released its final report on the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City. The final report is strengthened by clarifications and supplemental text suggested by organizations and individuals worldwide in response to the draft WTC 7 report, released for public comment on Aug. 21, but the revisions did not alter the investigation team’s major findings and recommendations, which include identification of fire as the primary cause for the building’s failure.

WTC7_column-79-Collapse.jpg

Graphic showing the buckling of WTC 7 Column 79 (circled area), the local failure identified as the initiating event in the building's progressive collapse.

Credit: NIST Building and Fire Research LaboratoryThe extensive three-year scientific and technical building and fire safety investigation found that the fires on multiple floors in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event. Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down

http://www.nist.gov/...inal_112508.cfm

In response to comments from the building community, NIST conducted an additional computer analysis. The goal was to see if the loss of WTC 7’s Column 79—the structural component identified as the one whose failure on 9/11 started the progressive collapse—would still have led to a complete loss of the building if fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC 1 tower were not factors. The investigation team concluded that the column’s failure under any circumstance would have initiated the destructive sequence of events.

Other revisions to the final WTC 7 report included:

  • Expanding the discussion of firestopping, the material placed between floors to prevent floor-to-floor fire spread;
  • Clarifying the description of thermal expansion as it related to WTC 7’s shear studs and floor beams; and
  • Explaining in greater detail the computer modeling approach used to define where and when the fire in WTC 7 started and the extent of window breakage as a result of fire.

Edited by skyeagle409

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The NIST who did the investigation into why the WTC7 collapsed, didn't have any of the recovered steel.

Maybe you need to read the report...lol

FEMA did recover some of the steel from WTC7 including the vaporised steel, but they never investigated why the WTC7 collapsed.

Hence the photos you have are all from the FEMA reports and not from the NIST report. Any reference the NIST used in their investigation was from other sources such as the FEMA reports because as they have said numerous times in their report..

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

No need for me to move anywhere...lol

The Pieces of Steel

In Appendix D of their World Trade Center Building Performance Report, FEMA describes the collection process of steel pieces from Ground Zero. Among FEMA’s objectives was collecting badly burned pieces of structural steel, as well as connections and bolts in any condition, from WTC 7. This proved to be difficult, since the volunteer collection efforts began in earnest in November 2001 (other than some October trips to the Jersey City site, the main collection visits began no earlier than November 16). Larry Silverstein announced on November 8, 2001 that the WTC 7 site had already been cleared.

Two pictures in Appendix D of the FEMA report are of WTC 7 metal. One is identified as a WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors (Figure D-14) , and the other (a close up on a damaged seat connection) is a fire-damaged W14 column from WTC 7 (Figure D-17). Both pictures are reproduced here, and neither appear to have been cut by any device at all, let alone a thermite device. On the contrary, the beams look to be torn and wrenched apart, what you’d expect from a building that collapsed under the force of gravity alone.

Figure-D-14-Appendix-C-FEMA-300x206.pngFigure-D-17-Appendix-C-FEMA-300x230.png

http://ae911truth.in...ite/fema-steel/

Edited by skyeagle409

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But, you claimed that NO steel was recovered from WTC7, but as the photos have shown, you were incorrect and I might add that NIST wasn't the only one who concluded that WTC7 collapsed due to fire.

No steel was recovered for the investigation into the collapse of WTC7.

And that any reference to the steel from the WTC 7 in the NIST report came from other sources. Like FEMA...lol

Not sure what I have suppose to have gotten wrong here?? :blink:

Name other companies and investigators that concluded that the WTC buildings collapsed due to fire.
The only investigation done into the collapse of the WTC 7 was the NIST investigation. If other companies agree with the NIST report, then it is not because of investigations they did themselves, it is based on the NIST report...lol

Which as we know, didn't examine any of the steel....lol

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NIST Releases Final WTC 7 Investigation Report

For Immediate Release: November 25, 2008

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) last week released its final report on the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City. The final report is strengthened by clarifications and supplemental text suggested by organizations and individuals worldwide in response to the draft WTC 7 report, released for public comment on Aug. 21, but the revisions did not alter the investigation team’s major findings and recommendations, which include identification of fire as the primary cause for the building’s failure.

WTC7_column-79-Collapse.jpg

Graphic showing the buckling of WTC 7 Column 79 (circled area), the local failure identified as the initiating event in the building's progressive collapse.

Credit: NIST Building and Fire Research LaboratoryThe extensive three-year scientific and technical building and fire safety investigation found that the fires on multiple floors in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event. Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down

http://www.nist.gov/...inal_112508.cfm

In response to comments from the building community, NIST conducted an additional computer analysis. The goal was to see if the loss of WTC 7’s Column 79—the structural component identified as the one whose failure on 9/11 started the progressive collapse—would still have led to a complete loss of the building if fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC 1 tower were not factors. The investigation team concluded that the column’s failure under any circumstance would have initiated the destructive sequence of events.

Other revisions to the final WTC 7 report included:

  • Expanding the discussion of firestopping, the material placed between floors to prevent floor-to-floor fire spread;
  • Clarifying the description of thermal expansion as it related to WTC 7’s shear studs and floor beams; and
  • Explaining in greater detail the computer modeling approach used to define where and when the fire in WTC 7 started and the extent of window breakage as a result of fire.

Yes because the NIST model of how the building collapse is such a great match for the reality of how it collapsed.... :blink: lol

Of course, that is if you can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality....lol

Edited by Stundie

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The Pieces of Steel

In Appendix D of their World Trade Center Building Performance Report, FEMA describes the collection process of steel pieces from Ground Zero. Among FEMA’s objectives was collecting badly burned pieces of structural steel, as well as connections and bolts in any condition, from WTC 7. This proved to be difficult, since the volunteer collection efforts began in earnest in November 2001 (other than some October trips to the Jersey City site, the main collection visits began no earlier than November 16). Larry Silverstein announced on November 8, 2001 that the WTC 7 site had already been cleared.

Two pictures in Appendix D of the FEMA report are of WTC 7 metal. One is identified as a WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors (Figure D-14) , and the other (a close up on a damaged seat connection) is a fire-damaged W14 column from WTC 7 (Figure D-17). Both pictures are reproduced here, and neither appear to have been cut by any device at all, let alone a thermite device. On the contrary, the beams look to be torn and wrenched apart, what you’d expect from a building that collapsed under the force of gravity alone.

Figure-D-14-Appendix-C-FEMA-300x206.pngFigure-D-17-Appendix-C-FEMA-300x230.png

http://ae911truth.in...ite/fema-steel/

Not sure which part you do not understand, so lets put in a nice and easy to read way so that you might actually UNDERSTAND.

FEMA report - Collected steel from the WTC7 - Didn't investigate how WTC 7 collapsed.

NIST report - Didn't collect any steel from the WTC7 - Investigated how WTC7 collapsed.

The NIST and FEMA are two different bodies and had a different remit, they are not the same. lol

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Yes because the NIST model of how the building collapse is such a great match for the reality of how it collapsed.... :blink: lol

[media=]

[/media]

Of course, that is if you can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality....lol

Actually, the WTC7 video proves beyond any doubt that the building collapsed due to fire.

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Not sure which part you do not understand, so lets put in a nice and easy to read way so that you might actually UNDERSTAND.

It goes to show that no evidence of explosives was found within the rubble of WTC7.

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Actually, the WTC7 video proves beyond any doubt that the building collapsed due to fire.

Only in Skyeagles world does the video prove beyond doubt......that the building collapsed due to fire. lol

It goes to show that no evidence of explosives was found within the rubble of WTC7.

As it was never looked for, but you knew that didn't you....lol

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Only in Skyeagles world does the video prove beyond doubt......that the building collapsed due to fire.

Which is the conclusion of investigators, structural and civil engineers.

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As it was never looked for, but you knew that didn't you....lol

What has been posted on many occasions in that regard? If you can't answer that question, then you haven't been paying any attention.

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