Sandy Hook AR-15 hoax?

[Space Commander Travis]

The question isnt about making a 2nd talk about ****. Im getting sick of you people using every excuse to not verify the weapon used when the very weapon you acccused of doing it is being demonized and banned. No small thing to the economy and jobs in America which is already on the brink of another depression. But I suppose if you dont have any gun manufacturers in your state you wouldnt care about the newly unemployed over this mess. Skilled jobs I remind you.

The old saying goes Pics or it didnt happen.

Perhaps we ought to start a few more nice lucrative Wars to keep the armaments industry healthy and profitable?

[preacherman76]

There were some with Columbine as well.

Many people still believe there were coverups with Columbine.

I think there are always shouts of "coverup" and "conspiracy" because the actual truth (the fact that another human being can be so evil without help or warning) is too much for us to comprehend.

Nibs

I can admit to that. The day Sandy hook happened I heard it on the radio driving down the road. At first I instantly built a wall in my head. Just told myself what a sick **** he must have been and started to shrug it off. But this happened within 40 miles of my sons school. It suddenly made me sick that I was even able to turn off a emotional responce. I then I put myself in the parents shoes, and Im not ashamed to admit that I cried. Talking about it later with family I just couldnt get over how senceless it was. I had never heard anything like it. As horrible as Columbine was, you could at least look at the big picture and figure out why. At least if you can figure out why, you might be able to do something about it in the future. But Sandy hook wasnt some over bullied teens. It was a grown man killing babies for seemingly no reason what so ever. I couldnt, and still have trouble comprehending such a thing.

Till yesterday I never even considered it to be a possible conspiracy. The cammoed out guy ran into the woods from the school. They have that on video. Whats that guys story? Then you have "several officials" claiming he never took the AR out of his car. You have a continued clear pattern of mock drills and tragic events, this one included. Then of course you have people who have been calling for gun bans for decades pushing all kinds of gun legislation.

[preacherman76]

Okay, curious time...if pictures of him inside the school with the AR-15 are released, will that prove it for you?

It will do it for me. But being that "several officails" claimed he didnt have it in the school, I highly doubt we will ever see that

[preacherman76]

I remember that their was a court battle about revealing the footage in question. So, I doubt the footage was relieved a week latter. About the sandy hook footage these weren't adults or teenagers being shot; these were 20 children and 6 adults being shot AT with an AR 15. In retrospect, I highly doubt it would be easy to put that up, when most news people have children that age. ^ I think the parents would've asked them not too show that to the public and I doubt people thought it was OK to show the shooter killing the children.

From what I understand footage was released just days after showing just clips of them in the school with the weapons in hand. They didnt show them actualy killing anyone till way after. Personaly I dont want to see, nor do I think they should ever release footage of him killing those babies. That would be beyond sick. I just want to see the gun, and if the official story is true find out why "several officails" lied about the AR still being in his car.

Off too see The Hobbit ^^ good to see you Nibs ^^

Great movie. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

Edited January 15, 2013 by preacherman76

[sslama]

It's not a hoax....it happened and it's quite sad that people are trying to scare you into thinking it is. It's okay to have free speech but when they start threatening you, like what is happening to the Sandy Hooks parents that are dealing with the death of their children and telling them they are lying....phoning them and accusing them of being 'Crisis Actors'....it should be against the law. It's morally wrong to let this happen to these people. It's just not right they are harassed like this after 20 of their children are dead.

[preacherman76]

It's not a hoax....it happened and it's quite sad that people are trying to scare you into thinking it is. It's okay to have free speech but when they start threatening you, like what is happening to the Sandy Hooks parents that are dealing with the death of their children and telling them they are lying....phoning them and accusing them of being 'Crisis Actors'....it should be against the law. It's morally wrong to let this happen to these people. It's just not right they are harassed like this after 20 of their children are dead.

No one is saying it didnt happen. And if people are really calling and harrassing those parents, well thats horrible.

[redhen]

Looking for some research on my 911 thread I came across this article which offers a plausible explanation for all these conspiracy topics. The word for today is: Dietrologia

"I have come across, with perplexing and annoying frequency lately here on Kuro5hin and elsewhere, a growing cavalcade of paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorists. To them, nothing is what it seems, there is always some dark sinister reason behind, for example, September 11th (besides the obvious dark sinister reason of militant fundamentalists with a chip on their shoulder). Against them, Occam's Razor is as dull as a wet fish. Reason melts before their almost occult insistence upon finding the sinister Macchiavellian hand in everything.

But I have just found an innoculating concept against the nutjobs and quacks. The Internet seems to have supercharged them by providing an alternative media niche. Let the Internet also serve as their neutralization.

I introduce to you, the Italian concept of "Dietrologia.""

( Occam's Razor is as dull as a wet fish ) I love it!

[redhen]

No one is saying it didnt happen. And if people are really calling and harrassing those parents, well thats horrible.

Unfortunately, some of these "Truthers" are guilty.

http://www.salon.com...arassed_for_it/

It's disgusting.

[preacherman76]

Looking for some research on my 911 thread I came across this article which offers a plausible explanation for all these conspiracy topics. The word for today is: Dietrologia

"I have come across, with perplexing and annoying frequency lately here on Kuro5hin and elsewhere, a growing cavalcade of paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theorists. To them, nothing is what it seems, there is always some dark sinister reason behind, for example, September 11th (besides the obvious dark sinister reason of militant fundamentalists with a chip on their shoulder). Against them, Occam's Razor is as dull as a wet fish. Reason melts before their almost occult insistence upon finding the sinister Macchiavellian hand in everything.

But I have just found an innoculating concept against the nutjobs and quacks. The Internet seems to have supercharged them by providing an alternative media niche. Let the Internet also serve as their neutralization.

I introduce to you, the Italian concept of "Dietrologia.""

( Occam's Razor is as dull as a wet fish ) I love it!

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way. As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self. I mean we are talking about people who care nothing about killing innocent people everyday.

Edited January 15, 2013 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

Unfortunately, some of these "Truthers" are guilty.

http://www.salon.com...arassed_for_it/

It's disgusting.

So is labling a entire group of people some snide nic name as though somehow you are better then them.

Although I agree, anyone who would harrass those parents are sick.

[redhen]

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way.

No, just gullible.

As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self. I mean we are talking about people who care nothing about killing innocent people everyday.

Actually, I used the Gulf of Tonkin incident in my 911 thread as example of the kind of evidence I would like to see, ideally, from truthers.

[redhen]

So is labling a entire group of people some snide nic name as though somehow you are better then them.

No, it's just a handy label. Also, I believe many people self-identify as truthers.

Although I agree, anyone who would harrass those parents are sick.

Good for you, seriously.

[Ryinrea]

From what I understand footage was released just days after showing just clips of them in the school with the weapons in hand. They didnt show them actualy killing anyone till way after. Personaly I dont want to see, nor do I think they should ever release footage of him killing those babies. That would be beyond sick. I just want to see the gun, and if the official story is true find out why "several officails" lied about the AR still being in his car.

Great movie. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

The special effects were awesome should not expect any less from Peter Jackson. He brought my favorite books to life.

I agree that showing afterwards while in court during documentaries as well. But I don't want to see it either in my opinion its distasteful to show that type of thing....

[pallidin]

Please tell me you mean the local coroner.

No, it was the chief medical examiner for the state of Conneticut and his team brought in to Sandy Hook.

[Ryinrea]

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way. As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self. I mean we are talking about people who care nothing about killing innocent people everyday.

If those people worked with law enforcement they will understand; why eye witness testimony is handle as just one part of the story, since a person memory can fade overtime. I also bet we will not see the weapon until the investigation is completed

[+Liquid Gardens]

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way.

Never met anyone who believes 'everything' the media tells them. Not one.

As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self.

But why are you drawing your lines so narrowly? If you don't think that things coming from the hundreds of thousands of people who comprise 'the government' can be trusted at all because the government have stated things that didn't turn out to be true, then likewise why trust any conspiracy theorist since we have ample evidence that conspiracy theorists have also said things that are not true?

[redhen]

But why are you drawing your lines so narrowly?

Bingo !

"The point is that the more a claim accords with our background beliefs, the less strong its own credentials must be. (The claim that is snowed in Minnesota in December does not need strong credentials to be accepted). The less a new claim is in accordance with these background beliefs, the stronger its own credentials must be), (The claim that it snowed in Florida in July needs very strong credentials). Any new claim, no matter how outlandish (that is, no matter how much it conflicts with our background beliefs), could conceivably turn out to be true. But some claims are so outlandish they must have extraordinary strong credentials if they are to be taken seriously. The elements of reasoning, 5th edition, Munson - Black

Or more succinctly as Carl Sagan would say, "extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence"

p.s. by background beliefs is meant the reasonable beliefs that you already hold. Of which most of them are accepted from the word of others, since we can't be experts in everything.

Edited January 15, 2013 by redhen

[Doc Socks Junior]

Besides which, almost every inconsistency in accounts can be explained in terms of...eyewitness testimony being unreliable.

Weird how that works.

[Likely Guy]

I learned in other threads that if you suspect a conspiracy you have to consider who had the most to gain from the event.

Coincidentally, I read today that the NRA sold 100,000 new memberships in the last month. Also, gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof since Sandy Hook.

Hmmm. There's another conspiracy theory there for someone. Not me.

I'll have a window seat please...

[Imaginarynumber1]

Told not by one, but by "several officials" that the AR was in the car

Well, they "told" wrong. Have a look at the video of the weapon coming out of the trunk. It's a shotgun.

That's clearly a shotgun coming out of the trunk, not an AR.

[Tmars78]

Well, they "told" wrong. Have a look at the video of the weapon coming out of the trunk. It's a shotgun.

I've watched that video like 100s of times, and even when I close my eyes and pretend, I do not see an AR-15. That is CLEARLY a shotgun. Anyone who believes that is an AR-15 has never seen one. My brother's best friend owns an AR, and it looks nothing like the gun in that video. If he did have an AR, which they say was there, my money is on him having it on him and using it. It wasn't in the car, so the only other logical place for it, would be with him.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Tmars78

[redhen]

I learned in other threads that if you suspect a conspiracy you have to consider who had the most to gain from the event.

Gain? Sometimes people do things because they believe it's the right thing to do. Of course they be wrong, Like President Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Anyways, lots of other alternatives, to stop Communism, help allies, etc. Why do you guys always assume it's aliens, or the "world banking system",

Coincidentally, I read today that the NRA sold 100,000 new memberships in the last month. Also, gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof since Sandy Hook.

Again, there are more plausible explanations; an advance run on guns at the store, before the gummit gets 'em, people taking a political stand, etc. Your automatic assumption is that the NRA orchestrated the school massacre to increase its membership.

Hmmm. There's another conspiracy theory there for someone. Not me.

Whew, that's a relief. Good for you.

[DONTEATUS]

Such bad taste in even thinking there was anything other than the Horror !

[sslama]

I'm sure there is some conspiracy out there but it's just knowing which ones are true and which are not. Here's one ...George Bush is actually smart...lol. Seriously, even when there is proof their is a small group of people who just won't let it go.

[Likely Guy]

Gain? Sometimes people do things because they believe it's the right thing to do. Of course they be wrong, Like President Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Anyways, lots of other alternatives, to stop Communism, help allies, etc. Why do you guys always assume it's aliens, or the "world banking system",

Again, there are more plausible explanations; an advance run on guns at the store, before the gummit gets 'em, people taking a political stand, etc. Your automatic assumption is that the NRA orchestrated the school massacre to increase its membership.

Whew, that's a relief. Good for you.

That was 'tongue in cheek' if you will, or 'putting the shoe on the other foot'. It is time, sometimes, for the conspiracy crowd to understand where that 'proof', comes from.

It comes from unsubstantiated sources. I can make it up too, or a you-tube video, or a blog.

If 5 bloggers took my rumour that the NRA was behind the 'hoax' and ran with it, there might be 100 sites next week that would spout it as truth.

That doesn't make it true!

They call people 'sheeple' for believing the 'main stream media'. But they'll believe and propagate some unsourced video.

People aren't any more media savy than they were before the internet. Back in the good old days there used to be 'editors'. Yes, that is an antiquated term.

Now, with internet 'yahoos', the 'editor' has become the 'Enter' button. I hope that one day,'media awareness' becomes a mandatory class in middle high school, quickly followed by a class in 'critical thinking'.

Critical thinking doesn't come to anyone naturally. It's an exercise.