I may have got a squatch on audio

[Rafterman]

Declarations like this one back then convinced thousands of people like me that proof was on the way.

I know absence of proof is not proof of absence but all we've gotten since 1978 is a bunch of hoaxes, some laughable cable shows, and the Patterson footage analyzed a hundred times.

Exactly - all the while technology has gotten better and better, more accessible, and vastly more affordable.

Folks in 1978 couldn't dream of the technology that I can walk into the woods with in my pocket today.

[bfbeliever]

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

[+joc]

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

Was ya'll drunk?

[orangepeaceful79]

No Bootstring is just a friend of ours. I would never post it because i was nervous about being bashed for my beliefs or experiences. It was just me, my husband, and whatever made the noises. I believe in them and we tried to find other answers such as maybe campers or someone but in the daylight the area is just so steep it would be very hard to camp there. Not to mention the temps were in the single digits the night we recorded it.

I think the point that several other posters have tried to make is that if you were out and about in the dark, frigid night, why is it so hard to imagine that there would be someone else out there. I'm not bashing you or anyone for what you believe. My issue is that I have a tough time believing in a giant man-ape that breaks all the rules of nature that would cause it to leave behind evidence of its existence. The other problem I have with ear-witness reports of Bigfoot "calls" is that we've never caught a Bigfoot or studied an actual live specimen of one, which means that we actually have no true idea of what their "calls" sound like.

Which means that you don't know what made the sound you heard and since Bigfoot's existence is as of yet unverified, it makes WAY more sense to look for known causes than to jump to explanations based on things we have no actual knowledge of. Its illogical.

[scowl]

Because, imo, for some footers it is just a way of fooling/controling people, or attempting to make money, or garner a following or earn some kind of power or prestige in their circle.

Imo, some footers do not buy into the existence of bigfoot any more than I do.

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

[orangepeaceful79]

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

I think - at least as I understood QC's point is that it isn't a pointless occupation for those indiviuduals quite frankly because there is a fair amount of money to made off of Bigfoot. The thing is that in the long run, Bigfoot is worth more cumulatively if we NEVER find him, because skilled individuals can keep duping new generations with pseudo-evidence and keep them buying BF merchandising.

Certain individuals have doubtless realized this and now their objective isn't to actually find a Bigfoot but to keep the search going as long as possible in order to ride the gravy train.

For those folks the worst possible outcome would be that a Bigfoot would be actually found, because then their whole career would be up in smoke. Because once a BF is found (unlikely as it is) then the real work would transition to actual biologists - of which few cryptozoologists actually are.

Edited January 30, 2013 by orangepeaceful79

[CakeOrDeath]

I love the "if you don't believe, why are you on this site" arguement. This site, and some of it's posters have been a boon for me personally. It has greatly increased a fairly mundane person's ability to think "critically" and apply even some basic tenets of scientific method to events that happen even in my day to day life.

I've looked at some other sites and it's laughable. The funny thing is, I log here daily, hoping one day to see that post that, even after careful consideration by people like Mulder, Boony, Sakari, Hazzard (just to name a few, sorry if I left anyone off) we're still left scratchy our heads wondering, or better yet....we get that one gem thread with REAL evidence of something! I don't care what, it can be aliens, footy, angels, psi-ballz, frankly any would be awesome.

I think the common mistake "believers" make, is thinking that we "skeptics" don't want this stuff to be true, that is sooo far from the reality of it all. I can't speak for all these smart folks, but I would be willing to bet they would agree, nothing would be cooler than for some paranormal phenomena to be proven true in our life time.

So yeah, I guess that's the long answer as to why people like Orange are here.

Edited January 30, 2013 by CakeOrDeath

[orangepeaceful79]

I love the "if you don't believe, why are you on this site" arguement. This site, and some of it's posters have been a boon for me personally. It has greatly increased a fairly mundane person's ability to think "critically" and apply even some basic tenets of scientific method to events that happen even in my day to day life.

I've looked at some other sites and it's laughable. The funny thing is, I log here daily, hoping one day to see that post that, even after careful consideration by people like Mulder, Boony, Sakari, Hazzard (just to name a few, sorry if I left anyone off) we're still left scratchy our heads wondering, or better yet....we get that one gem thread with REAL evidence of something! I don't care what, it can be aliens, footy, angels, psi-ballz, frankly any would be awesome.

I think the common mistake "believers" make, is thinking that we "skeptics" don't want this stuff to be true, that is sooo far from the reality of it all. I can't speak for all these smart folks, but I would be willing to bet they would agree, nothing would be cooler than for some paranormal phenomena to be proven true in our life time.

So yeah, I guess that's the long answer as to why people like Orange are here.

I couldn't agree more. I grew up fascinated by crypto and paranormal stuff. I still am to a certain degree, though now my perspective is very different. I personally would be thrilled if any one of these creatures or phenomenon were ever verified and vetted by science in order to establish some sort of objective truth concerning them. That would make my day and then I would come back here and admit I was incorrect about whatever was proven.

I have apologized and admitted error many times on these boards and I am a better person because of it.

My message to believers would be to open yourselves up a little to skeptical perspectives. I have done the same with the perspective of certain believers here on the site and have grown as a result. There are many valid points to be seen around here, closing one's mind off to them for any reason is an obstacle to growth and knowledge.

[CakeOrDeath]

Way off topic, sorry Bootstrings, but my feeling in the "large crypto" department, is that the ocean is the one place we can still find some pretty neat and new stuff. I mean we are just now starting to get glimpses of giant squids after all these years. And scientists have been suprised by the sizes of some deep dwelling sharks they have found.

I think there are still new species and critters out there, just nothing as cool as an apeman or pack of dinos that somehow escaped extinction and then carried on undetected all this time.

It is fun to think about though.

[Q-C]

I was questioning why the focus shouldn't be on finding a Bigfoot. Are you saying that since this will never happen, it's a pointless occupation for these people?

Thank you orangepeaceful!

And just to add, I said for some footers it is a questionable goal, because it is not their goal at all. Imo, some "believers" don't believe in bigfoot anymore than I do and they know it.

Also, for some, the attraction is strictly spiritual, or about comradery, or a few other things than some actual hardcore belief in bigfoot.

For others, if they want to search with the intent of finding a bigfoot one day, have at it!

As I've said before, at any given point in time there will always be various levels of belief in the body of bigfoot believers (sans a bigfoot body).

It doesn't matter what I think about their actions...you will always have searchers, and experts, and authors, and newbies, and turncoats...

And as NightWalker always succinctly points out, bigfootery is fun and interesting and definitely entertaining! It's a hobby for some of us to discuss, and read about, and look at the "evidence" and even to watch a TV show or two and to get to know the players and current events. So, without those out searching, I wouldn't have this hobby and this Forum of fun debate.

I looked for bigfoot for a brief time in my life, when I thought a specific group of footers I was dealing with at the time who were telling me facts and stories "couldn't wouldn't lie".

For me ghost hunting and cryptid searches may seem pointless, yes. But, I cannot identify with someone who has had an encounter of some kind. I can't fault them for the effect it had on them. I can't tell them that their personal search is pointless. No one can, really.

I can look over their evidence, and discuss their encounters and give my personal opinion, though.

Okay, raves and fireworks and using teen girls all as bait to attract bigfoot? Yes, I will say that is way off the hiking trail, imo.

Edited January 30, 2013 by QuiteContrary

[scowl]

For those folks the worst possible outcome would be that a Bigfoot would be actually found, because then their whole career would be up in smoke. Because once a BF is found (unlikely as it is) then the real work would transition to actual biologists - of which few cryptozoologists actually are.

OK, I totally understand this now. Most of these Squatch hunters on TV shows like "Finding Bigfoot" are not scientists and are doing this for fun. People on other boards have noted that you don't see these guys walking around forest in the cold winter. They're always out there in good weather with their dogs like they're on a camping trip. When they find a Bigfoot print, they're not confused that they don't find any other prints near it.

Another forum exploded in laughter when Cliff Barackman said what many believe is the most true statement ever made on "Finding Bigfoot": "Bigfoots are by far the most intelligent thing out here in these woods."

No one could disagree with that!

[Night Walker]

I would like thank the people however that say I sound like this magnificent creature.

Wait. What do you mean by that?

Is that you hollering Bigfoot-style on the audio? Just like Cliff?

[bfbeliever]

No we werent drunk. And yes I was the third call on the audio. A very valid point was made-open up to other thoughts and opinions. I know what went on that night. I know it wasn't a panther, coyote, bear or anything else I have ever heard growing up in this area. Thank you all for your comments and questions. I just wanted to share my experience. I don't expect money or recognition. I do agree that some of the things on TV shows is purely ridiculous and alot of people are getting rich to "search", and not just for bigfoot.

[+joc]

No we werent drunk. And yes I was the third call on the audio. A very valid point was made-open up to other thoughts and opinions. I know what went on that night. I know it wasn't a panther, coyote, bear or anything else I have ever heard growing up in this area. Thank you all for your comments and questions. I just wanted to share my experience. I don't expect money or recognition. I do agree that some of the things on TV shows is purely ridiculous and alot of people are getting rich to "search", and not just for bigfoot.

...so...it must be a mythical creature that no one has ever seen. I'm putting my money on another Human out doing similar things to what you were doing.

[Erowin]

I dunno, foxes can scream like humans. And goats. Jesus, dont get me started on goats.

Animals can make the most horrifying noises that rival Hell itself. I'd take creepy noises in the woods with a grain of salt- nature does not sound pretty.

[+joc]

I dunno, foxes can scream like humans. And goats. Jesus, dont get me started on goats.

Animals can make the most horrifying noises that rival Hell itself. I'd take creepy noises in the woods with a grain of salt- nature does not sound pretty.

[Esoteric Toad]

I dunno, foxes can scream like humans. And goats. Jesus, dont get me started on goats.

Animals can make the most horrifying noises that rival Hell itself. I'd take creepy noises in the woods with a grain of salt- nature does not sound pretty.

This is so true. Most, not all, haven't a clue since they spend so little time in the forest let alone out during odd times in general. Hell I have been woken up by cats fighting and had the 5hit scared out of me (and I own too many cats....so I know what they typically sound like). This falls in line with lights in the sky, how many people spend any amount of time actually looking at the sky? I venture that not many. Everyone is focused on the horizon or lower (and should if they are walking, cycling, or driving...imagine the madness of everyone looking up while doing those things, then throw in texting ). People rarely pay attention to anything except what is right in front of them. It is odd that there is that leap to BF when people hear something they are not used to. I would likely assume it was someone goofing on me or an animal I am not familiar with before I would ever think (seriously) BF!!!.

The footprint thing has always been a load of carp for the most part. One or two prints and no more. None of the people who find them seem interested in actually tracking any prints nor do they want to explain why there is only one (call it POGO BF).

No, there has been no evidence of a giant man ape at all. No environmental impact, no waste, no bones, no bodies, no clear pictures, no...anything. BF is a product of mans imagination left over from the days when we did not understand why some people who wander off into the woods never return....the boogey man. That is why, as I understand it, in nearly every culture there is some sort of "wild, hairy man" out there to snatch up the children if they get the stupid idea to ramble out into the woods.

Two completely useless bits of experience I have had that illustrate what I a lack of information can do (both visual and technical). I went out to Wyoming to visit my brother who was in the Air Force. While there I went down to Colorado to visit a friend of mine. Now i am from Florida and had never seen "real" mountains so imagine how cool it was to have to drive through Rocky Mountain National Park! My friend and I went hanging out in the park and while sitting around taking in the scenery I saw, what appeared to be, huge scratch marks on a tree about 6 feet from the ground. Now I had remembered that some bears, grizzlies I think, marked areas by doing this. So needless to say we didn't stick around. Later I found out that the culprit was likely a porcupine (this by a hunter from that area). I left our sight seeing area because I assumed (smartly I think) it had to be a bear that made those marks.

Another example of visual misinformation was when I worked at Kennedy Space Center on 2nd Shift (3-11:30 PM). KSC is on a sanctuary so there are all sorts of critters out there (and you have to be on your toes driving home at night...many people have hit alligators and wild pigs). One night I was driving home and I must have not been paying as much attention as I should have and nearly struck, something. If I were of the mindset that since I could not clearly see what it was I would have said it was a small BF (or whatever it is they call it down here.....forgot for the moment). Truly I recall it looked like an orangutan in coloring and size. I know it wasn't but if I could take a snapshot out of my memory that is exactly what it would have looked like. Since they do not exist here I know it couldn't have been and I simply did not have enough visual information to see what it truly was (it is a very dark road and I was driving my 1973 bug at the time with narrow headlights; the only critter I ever hit while working there was an opossum).

The point? No one has ever found anything to support the idea of BF. Never. It is impossible for a creature to have the distribution it is supposed to have without there being NO bodies, bones, poop....or anything. That I would bet on even if I am not a biologist...or even a college graduate. I just simply doesn't make any sense at all.

There are many people who will claim to believe and continuously provide "evidence" to string believers along solely for the purpose of making money. Then, as stated, there are many that do it for fun....without any intention of malice. Then there are those that will hose with anyone in the woods just to get a kick out of there reactions.

All this is JMO of course.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Esoteric Toad