French Intervention in Mali

[+and-then]

http://www.euronews....ensive-in-mali/

First Hollande says no intervention. Then, airstrikes only. Then, ground troops, tanks and "we'll" stay as long as it takes". Dien Bien Phu anyone? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad a western power is willing to help stem the tide. I'm just a bit confused that it would be France. After all, they have welcomed the largest Muslim population in Europe and bend over backwards to make the rules amenable to their culture and religion. My intention here is NOT to insult Muslims but to point out that when Islam and other religions meet, it's often a clash rather than an embrace. So why France? Hollande strikes me as a typical politician and seemed risk averse until now. Big jump with no parachute - I wish him well.

Edited January 16, 2013 by and then

[Render]

Why France? Because Mali is part of the former french colonies.

They want France to step up, they don't want to be taken over by the rebels.

Why is the intervention getting more severe? Because those rebels are heavily armed and they are ready to fight.

France has the highest muslim population because of those former colonies. Muslim integration is going the smoothest in France because they feel france is their country. France doesn't bend over backwards to accomodate them, they are simply part of the community.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240971

[Corp]

I have no problems with the intervention. The Mali government asked for French military aid, the African Union was already getting ready to send in troops, the UN wants something done to stop the rebels, the civilians of Mali want the rebels stopped, and surrounding nations are supporting the French by letting them use their air space and some are letting France use their bases.

From what I've heard it's tumbs up for the French all around. Expect of course those who are whining about Western "imperialism" and are trying to make this about oil and other resources.

[Drayno]

The French do have a history of colonization...

The rest can easily be said about many Western powers.

I just hope any violence is resolved.

[+and-then]

Sometimes violence is the only way to resolve

Welcome to UM, Preritrv. I agree that, sadly, sometimes violence IS the only way. To do otherwise is to invite subjugation. I wish France well and I hope the intervention is a short one.

[+and-then]

UPDATE

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323468604578245310036330882.html

Al Queda in the Maghreb has claimed responsibility for taking US, British and French hostages in Algeria at a BP site. The US is warned not to help in the Mali intervention undertaken by France. I hope a joint team of special ops guys take them down before they can begin a propaganda coup with this. In fact, if France asks, I say let the US hit so many sites in northern Mali that the rebels have nowhere to hide or stage their arms and supplies. If the hostages are harmed then continue the rout until their are none left in Mali. They understand the use of power. It's time to show them the west does as well.

[seeder]

UPDATE

http://online.wsj.co...0036330882.html

Al Queda in the Maghreb has claimed responsibility for taking US, British and French hostages in Algeria at a BP site. The US is warned not to help in the Mali intervention undertaken by France. I hope a joint team of special ops guys take them down before they can begin a propaganda coup with this. In fact, if France asks, I say let the US hit so many sites in northern Mali that the rebels have nowhere to hide or stage their arms and supplies. If the hostages are harmed then continue the rout until their are none left in Mali. They understand the use of power. It's time to show them the west does as well.

Special forces would be there already... they are always first in...trust in that, UK and US special forces.plus the French of course.. just because you don't hear it on the news doesn't mean it isnt so..

[+and-then]

Why France? Because Mali is part of the former french colonies.

They want France to step up, they don't want to be taken over by the rebels.

Why is the intervention getting more severe? Because those rebels are heavily armed and they are ready to fight.

France has the highest muslim population because of those former colonies. Muslim integration is going the smoothest in France because they feel france is their country. France doesn't bend over backwards to accomodate them, they are simply part of the community.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=240971

Does that include the guy who punched an obstetrics nurse last year for taking off his pregnant wife's hijab AS she was giving birth? No, I think it's pretty clear that the Muslim "community" doesn't attempt to blend. But maybe I answered my own question. Maybe Hollande sees this community as a potential threat if Al Queda gets a secure presence near Europe to recruit from. Anyway, the thread isn't to argue about Islam - just to explore why France and now the rest of the west apparently are being drawn into yet another fight with Islamic extremists, this time in Africa.

[+and-then]

Special forces would be there already... they are always first in...trust in that, UK and US special forces.plus the French of course.. just because you don't hear it on the news doesn't mean it isnt so..

Normally I'd say you are absolutely correct but the US government recently allowed one of our AMBASSADORS to be murdered without responding in any way. So I hope the SAS and the French are assembling a team just in case Obama doesn't want to admit there might still be a small problem with extremism in the region. What a tool he is.....

[Mr.United_Nations]

Normally I'd say you are absolutely correct but the US government recently allowed one of our AMBASSADORS to be murdered without responding in any way. So I hope the SAS and the French are assembling a team just in case Obama doesn't want to admit there might still be a small problem with extremism in the region. What a tool he is.....

The Algerians took the operation and it seems that just now that they have defeated the terrorists

[Space Commander Travis]

Mmmm. It all sounds as if, for the leaders of the West, history just keeps being replayed on an endless loop, doesn't it, and they never seem to learn from the lessons of history. Perhaps Bill Murray would make a good leader of the Western world; he'd have plenty of experience of the way that they do things.

[Space Commander Travis]

I have no problems with the intervention. The Mali government asked for French military aid, the African Union was already getting ready to send in troops, the UN wants something done to stop the rebels, the civilians of Mali want the rebels stopped, and surrounding nations are supporting the French by letting them use their air space and some are letting France use their bases.

From what I've heard it's tumbs up for the French all around. Expect of course those who are whining about Western "imperialism" and are trying to make this about oil and other resources.

... just like South Vietnam asked the US for military aid... Afghanistan asked the USSR ...

Although old Hollande does seem to be trying to make up for France's perhaps less than pro-active reputation in the 20th century in military affairs, doesn't it; he's taking up where Sarkozy left off. One tyrant down, so let's now go on and defeat Terrorism!

[seeder]

Well, RT live news just had a guy saying basically.... that the french have moved in, in an effort to protect European interests, gold/diamond mines and oil fields...plus keeping china from getting in there and buying the resources for bigger money..thus china getting a foothold into Africa, with promises of building infrastructure... which the west doesn't want...

and then...he was going on that with the downfall of Libya, Algeria was sposed to be next., and may even be so

[Mr.United_Nations]

Typical from RT

[seeder]

Typical from RT

ha yeh!

Im watching again waiting for it to repeat as missed the first half of his rant, (you know, they always have some guy someplace on a webcam, in his bedroom giving reports like that!)

bet Alex Jones will be raving on his show later too...

Edited January 17, 2013 by seeder

[Corp]

... just like South Vietnam asked the US for military aid... Afghanistan asked the USSR ...

Although old Hollande does seem to be trying to make up for France's perhaps less than pro-active reputation in the 20th century in military affairs, doesn't it; he's taking up where Sarkozy left off. One tyrant down, so let's now go on and defeat Terrorism!

So I guess you completely missed that fact that the African Union and the United Nations had already approved military action against the northern rebels. Hell one of the rebel groups, the MNLA, have declared that they're going to join the French in fighting the other rebel groups. And as the current Mali government is not a French puppet your comparisons to South Vietnam and Afghanistan are flawed.

[Space Commander Travis]

So I guess you completely missed that fact that the African Union and the United Nations had already approved military action against the northern rebels. Hell one of the rebel groups, the MNLA, have declared that they're going to join the French in fighting the other rebel groups. And as the current Mali government is not a French puppet your comparisons to South Vietnam and Afghanistan are flawed.

The African Union and the United Nations had already approved military action against the northern rebels? well, they're guaranteed success then. I'm sure that the Rebels will just lay down their arms, now that they know that the UN Disapproves. How exactly would knowing that the UN Disapproves be a deterrent? You'd hardly expect the UN to approve, would you? One of the rebel groups, the MNLA, have declared that they're going to join the French in fighting the other rebel groups, have they? Well, it sounds like they've already succeeded in making the situation even more chaotic. So now there's one rebel group on their side? How will they be able to differentiate between them? Sounds like an absolute recipe for chaos. Well done.

[Black Red Devil]

The African Union and the United Nations had already approved military action against the northern rebels? well, they're guaranteed success then. I'm sure that the Rebels will just lay down their arms, now that they know that the UN Disapproves. How exactly would knowing that the UN Disapproves be a deterrent? You'd hardly expect the UN to approve, would you? One of the rebel groups, the MNLA, have declared that they're going to join the French in fighting the other rebel groups, have they? Well, it sounds like they've already succeeded in making the situation even more chaotic. So now there's one rebel group on their side? How will they be able to differentiate between them? Sounds like an absolute recipe for chaos. Well done.

LOL Funny isn't it?. Our (the west, NATO...) remarkable success in bringing Justice, Democracy and Freedom to the world continues in Mali. It's the same old BS excuse everytime. "We're fighting terrorism, injustice, fundamentalism, dictatorship, rebels, insurgents to democratic Govt's who need our help...blah, blah, blah". A feeble excuse only the gullible and naive would believe. Some would want to make you believe we're the cops of the world.

Our "righteous interventions" have managed to create Al Queda and the Taliban. Our "success" in Iraq lead to a million deaths. In Lybia we liberated the country from a dictator just to allow Al Queda into the country (and wait for it, watch this space). Before we intervened there was no Al Queda presence in either Iraq nor Lybia, now they're running rampant.

We created the Taliban so we could defeat the Russians. Now they're even spreading in Pakistan and as strong as ever in Afghanistan.

We helped liberate Egypt from a dictator we were subsidising, just to allow another bunch of fundamentalists (the MB) to take power.

Now we're in Mali supporting a bunch of rebels called the MNLA who have links to Al Queda.

Is it just me or is there an element of keystone cops in the way we "police" the world? Every time we intervene we create more resistence and fundamentalsim.

We should learn from the Chinese who seem to be making inroads into Africa through pussyfooting, not by sledgehammering (that is, if you believe we're there for Democracy, Justice and Freedom).

Edited January 18, 2013 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[Mr.United_Nations]

LOL Funny isn't it?. Our (the west, NATO...) remarkable success in bringing Justice, Democracy and Freedom to the world continues in Mali. It's the same old BS excuse everytime. "We're fighting terrorism, injustice, fundamentalism, dictatorship, rebels, insurgents to democratic Govt's who need our help...blah, blah, blah". A feeble excuse only the gullible and naive would believe. Some would want to make you believe we're the cops of the world.

Our "righteous interventions" have managed to create Al Queda and the Taliban. Our "success" in Iraq lead to a million deaths. In Lybia we liberated the country from a dictator just to allow Al Queda into the country (and wait for it, watch this space). Before we intervened there was no Al Queda presence in either Iraq nor Lybia, now they're running rampant.

We created the Taliban so we could defeat the Russians. Now they're even spreading in Pakistan and as strong as ever in Afghanistan.

We helped liberate Egypt from a dictator we were subsidising, just to allow another bunch of fundamentalists (the MB) to take power.

Now we're in Mali supporting a bunch of rebels called the MNLA who have links to Al Queda.

Is it just me or is there an element of keystone cops in the way we "police" the world? Every time we intervene we create more resistence and fundamentalsim.

We should learn from the Chinese who seem to be making inroads into Africa through pussyfooting, not by sledgehammering (that is, if you believe we're there for Democracy, Justice and Freedom).

Al Queda pretty much existed long before ww1....

[Space Commander Travis]

Al Queda pretty much existed long before ww1....

before WW1? If you mean Arabic resistance movements, then perhaps so, Lawrence of Arabia found them useful, but if it can be called that, Al Q has only existed as an organisation since the 80s.

[Mr.United_Nations]

before WW1? If you mean Arabic resistance movements, then perhaps so, Lawrence of Arabia found them useful, but if it can be called that, Al Q has only existed as an organisation since the 80s.

Yeah Lawrence of Arabia. The name Al Q maybe from the 80s but smaller groups may have the same thinking alot earlier

[+and-then]

So the West is a suicidal entity? We create the seeds of our own destruction? Works for me I guess. I don't quite see the humor in it though.

[Corp]

The African Union and the United Nations had already approved military action against the northern rebels? well, they're guaranteed success then. I'm sure that the Rebels will just lay down their arms, now that they know that the UN Disapproves. How exactly would knowing that the UN Disapproves be a deterrent? You'd hardly expect the UN to approve, would you? One of the rebel groups, the MNLA, have declared that they're going to join the French in fighting the other rebel groups, have they? Well, it sounds like they've already succeeded in making the situation even more chaotic. So now there's one rebel group on their side? How will they be able to differentiate between them? Sounds like an absolute recipe for chaos. Well done.

You completely missed my point. This isn't France just decided it wants to bomb people, this is action that has support locally as well as internationally. And a minute of research would have told you that the MNLA was already at odds with the other rebel groups. Is the situation chaoic, yes it is and there will need to be hard work to sort things out but it's worth doing. Maybe efforts could be made to stamp out slavery in Mali at the same time. Or would you have rathered the international community tell the people of Mali to **** off and die?

And Devil you might want to actually do a bit of research into the situation in Mali since a lot of your claims are false. The African Union was going to get involved before France decided to take action. This is not a Western only action. The MNLA is fighting the Islamic rebels not working with them, not anymore. As for those being gullible and naive you might want to look at yourself since you're repeating the lie about who's running Libya. Should all pleas for help from Mali be ignored? Better to let the country burn than to give the impression of Western "imperialism"?

[Space Commander Travis]

You completely missed my point. This isn't France just decided it wants to bomb people, this is action that has support locally as well as internationally. And a minute of research would have told you that the MNLA was already at odds with the other rebel groups. Is the situation chaoic, yes it is and there will need to be hard work to sort things out but it's worth doing. Maybe efforts could be made to stamp out slavery in Mali at the same time. Or would you have rathered the international community tell the people of Mali to **** off and die?

Who on earth was talking about deciding to bomb people? Teling the people of Mail to **** off and die? That's all a bit emotive isn't it? The point is that this could very easily be Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt etc, over and over ad infinitum. It doesn't matter whether it has the UN rubber stamp, the UN rubber stamp rarely makes the slightest difference one way or the other, does it. Yet again stepping into other people's civil wars. Of course it has support locally, intervention in civil wars always has the support from those whose side you take. If the African union and the neighbouring countries were so concerned, perhaps they might think about stepping in to stop it themselves, rather than always waiting for the West to do something, and then, of course, when they do, the only reward they get is Islamic Brotherhoods and so on b****ing about Imperialism. Perhaps, though, as it's France this time, no one's too bothered and can take the moral high ground, unlike if it was the US and/or Uk once again?

[Space Commander Travis]

And Devil you might want to actually do a bit of research into the situation in Mali since a lot of your claims are false. The African Union was going to get involved before France decided to take action. This is not a Western only action. The MNLA is fighting the Islamic rebels not working with them, not anymore. As for those being gullible and naive you might want to look at yourself since you're repeating the lie about who's running Libya. Should all pleas for help from Mali be ignored? Better to let the country burn than to give the impression of Western "imperialism"?

So Hollande decided to take action before the African Union could, purely out of the goodness of his heart because of France's historic ties to mali? That sounds suspiciously like Tony Blair's egocentric interventionism, wanting to portray himself as the great humanitarian fighter for the cause of Good. Be very, very suspicious.