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Hazzard

Best evidence for ET visitation - 4th edition

375 posts in this topic

I thought Meier was vindicated.....

I know most UFO researchers did not believe in the claims of Mr. Meier and many described the case as a hoax but I remember reading an article which kep my mind open on this subject.

In 2001, in order to resolve if he was lying more than 1200 photos and 8 films were investigated by Vaughn Rees of CFI. Mr. Rees said that in his EXPERT opinion they were all easily duplicated hoaxes. Mr Rees said he could copy what Mr. Meier’s did by scratching the film with a pin and backed this claim by taking one of Mr. Meirers easiest film segments to duplicate and show it was a hoax. He failed to do this over the next few months and someone suggested he use high tech equip. He didn’t even have to be exact in details, just enough to be convincing.

Two years later Mr. Rees was confronted of his failure to reproduce the film segment and his response was he didn’t have access to a photo processing lab which Mr. Meier didn’t have access to back then either.

Vaughn Reese from CFI gave it his best. But didnt quite make it. No, It was Phil Langdon that hit it out of the stadium.

He debunked pretty much all of the "evidence" put fourth by Meier,.. and Michael Horn. Listen to the pod cast episode 29 I believe,... after that and the Langdon site there can be no more doubt.

VvVv

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As always, psyche, a very informative post.

I have been looking into the ancient aliens show/claim a little bit and I found a couple of pod casts that I enjoy. Good stuff.

The Dumbasses Guide To Knowledge. http://www.dumbassgu...tries/cat_id=11 Here (on page 2) we have the "Rocks from Saqsaywaman that Tsoukalos thinks were melted into place" that we just had in the AA thread.

And,...

EXPOSING PSEUDO ASTRONOMY - Dr Suart Robins debunking claims from coast to coast (funny as hell). http://pseudoastro.w...tegory/podcast/

Cheers, I will have a listen to that, thanks mate!

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Dont blame me, it was BooN that made me wear it.

Now I cant take it off. :angry:

Want your original? I still have a copy of it.

post-105506-0-55950200-1358471544_thumb.

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Thanks Hazzard that was interesting.....I guess I wasn't up to date on this guy. But that doesn't change the fact that so many high profile, professional people, as well as others haven't seen a UFO.....Canadian Govt too has witnessed UFO's. What they are and where they are from is a mystery, but they are real.

Buzz Aldrin and Gordon Cooper...Cooper believed till his dying day that they were real. Charles Halt, former Air Force Colonel accused US of coverup on this subject. It certainly is an interesting subject and definitely something is going on out there that's alien to us. What? Not sure.

Edited by sslama

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@ psyche101 - Thank you for your reply to my comments psyche101. I have many disagreements with you.

Hi sslama

Thank you for your polite and courteous reply. Your good manners are noted, and appreciated. I have no problems with disagreement, after all, we are all individuals, all I ask is a sensible and fair discussion.

Today we are using the same surgical instruments the ancients used 6000 yrs ago. They were performing brain surgery then too. There is no evidence of surgical tools before this period and to have the ability to make these instruments means a highly sophisticated society. What I’m saying is, I think a group of beings gave us this knowledge. Our civilization had a huge growth spurt suddenly around this time. There are stories of the gods landing and giving us this knowledge from all cultures in our civilization.

Not quite. We do not use the same surgical instruments we used 6,000 years ago. Not in modern medicine. The only recorded surgical practise that old is trepanning. Whilst it is still seen in some places today, it is hardly modern medicine.

In fact, all ancient practises were painfull and barbaric. It is honestly hard to see an advanced species telling us how to accomplish Treppaning as opposed to antiseptics, which did not come about intill the 1800's thanks to Ignaz Semmelweis. And thank goodness for him, he has saved many lives with his determination. His insistance to wash hands between patients was seen as an insult, after all, Doctors were healers, givers of life. That they could be taking it away was unthinkable. But Ignaz persisted, and Antiseptic procedures were born.

But, we have many aliments, trauma happens, we need more than Trepanning, and we had more. Pretty basic stuff, we used ro cover ourselves with earth and mud for relief this evolved for us to realise that some plants had quite an effect. We started playing with plants. That lead to medicines. Medicines led to antiseptics.

And some surgical tools have remained the same. Not 6,000 years as far as I know, but for sure over 2,500 years ago. But I ask you, what, would you change? Consider a pair of forceps They are designed fo a basic function. All they do is clamp. What improvements to you expect to see?

The claim that the knowledge came from the stars is also not entirely how I remember it. Is not one of the oldest tales from Mesopotamia? I seem to recall Berossus claiming that Oannes gave us knowledge that always existed. And he came from the sea, not the stars. Indicating our knowledge comes form the earth.

Today an eye witness means everything. You can be convicted of any crime with an eye witness….why, when you talk of UFO sightings, do you dismiss this fact. There is always going to be corrupt individuals lying and cheating.

Today it does, but I have hope for tomorrow. The position and value of eyewitness testimony in the court system is being challenged, I hope it is successful.

Of the people I mentioned - the innocence project. A selection of 300 cases so far have been evaluated. Of this sample, 75% of eyewitness testimony was shown to be incorrect, and had even landed people on death row. That is not corrupt or lying individuals. That is everyday situations that change peoples lives forever.

The problem with testimony is it is in the eye of the beholder, that persons bias, and influences make up part of the final decision on how one described something they do not recognise, as such, we end up with the same thing being described as an Alien by one person, when the next person might say the very same thing is a Goblin or the like. Nobody on earth is qualified to identify anything alien. Does it not bother you that with all the claims, not one has any sort of quarantine procedure? A witness testimony should be accurate, not interpreted If someone see s light in the sky, they should say "I saw a light in the sky" and describe it. As soon as they say "I saw an Aliens sstarrship" the testiomony is worthless, because individual assessments have already been made, tainting the outcome.

But to suggest that all of the UFO eyewitnesses from the ancient times until now are lying is a bit of an outrageous comment.

I do not believe I did that in any place. If you re-read my post you will find I blame modern man the the vandalisation of historical records. Modern man has made the same mistake eyewitnesses do. He see's a thing, the process of it's creation escapes him, so he turns to a higher power. ET. I do not believe that when the stories were retold that they were retold in their original format. I near shed a tear to see the real story of the Wondjina portrayed as aliens by the woo woo crowd.

We as outsiders canot accurately transcribe these cultures. We need to go back to the people and ask them to do that. When we do it, we mess it up, because we have very different ideologies. If we were to take these tales as gospel, then it would seem that all of Australia's river systems were carved by a giant snake. We know that is not the case, but it is how the dreamtime explains terrain. Man wrapping his head around nature one little bit at a time. Avery long process. Surely you do not expect a massive giant snake that carves rivers to be dug up from under Uluru?

AA is only vandalism. I have almost finished drafting a proposal to forward to Indigenous authorities here. I am sure it will take me a while, but I hope to see AA not outlawed, but responsibility placed upon them. I want to see clear evidence that leads to the claims made, not outright lies like those told about Puma Punku. It is my dream that if AA'ers are shown to be lying and making things up for a TV show, that they will be officially charged with tampering with historical records, and vandalism. AA needs accountability, at the moment it is rape and plunder of our historical record.

Lets face it, if AA'ers are on the level, they will welcome such a move. That is not ancient man, who managed these incredible accomplishments, that is the lazy mind of modern man who canot wrap his head around a laborious construction process. Modern man is to blame, and modern mane needs to be held accountable.

Also there are many, many highly trained pilots witnessing these events. Many were afraid to talk about it because they would be shunned by people with thoughts like you. But lately they have come forward and told their stories. They can't all be all fabricating these stories.

Again, I think the cases should be examined individually, because they are hardly identical. Actually, Hynek said that Pilots make the worst witnesses.

From what I have read, a great deal of what has been reported sounds very much like natural phenomena. If you read the majority of Foo Fighter reports, anyone can see they are natural phenomena but the woo woo crowd continues to insist otherwise. Planes deliberately flew into Foo Fighters. They were not physical in any way. They are described as being more similar to the Hessdalen phenomena. Famous cases like Mantel have two sides to the story. I am of the opinion that is an earthly explanation exists. it must take precedence. After all, that is where every answer to date concerning the UFO phenomena has come from. JAL 1628 is touted as you say above, some claim that Captain Kenju Terauchi was reprimanded for speaking out about his sighting, which is not the case at all, he was grounded for breaking many valid company rules. Rules are rules. No matter how important it seems to one that one should be broken.

With our knowledge today perhpas these 'Vimanas' work on principles we don't understand yet. Perhaps in our near future we will discover a new energy source which will solve this mystery. The fact still remains people recorded these crafts flying.

Not a chance I am afraid. These monstrous contraptions canot work in neither and atmosphere nor space.

Michio Kaku from Through The Wormhole, Season 3, Episode 1. - "Even Aliens have to obey the laws of physics"

The blueprints and descriptions do not call for exotic technology they show how these things are supposed to work. I feel Da Vinci's imagination did a far better job, much more eloquent. Much more sensible, much more viable.

leonardo-da-vinci-flying-machine.jpgleonardo-da-vinci-flying-machines.2.jpg

Why does another species have to be more intelligent than us to travel so far to another planet, you ask.…because it does. We can’t solve the problems of space travel without reaching a certain level in our intelligent. We wouldn’t be able to survive the many perils of such long distance travel. Our latest mission to Mars was an experiment. We didn’t even know if we could land a craft. So intelligence plays a big part. Anyone visiting us now or in the future would have to be further advanced than we are today or they wouldn’t be able to make the journey with safety….let alone set up a civilization on earth which I think they did. So in answer to your question" what does my comments have to do with this topic"….it has everything to do with it.

Did you miss the part about the Orion Project in my link? We have solved the problems of immediate Interstellar Travel, Project Orion, which I have already mentioned. In the early 60's it had the capability of moving hundreds of people between systems at 10% the speed of light. That's about 40 years to Alpha Centauri for us, a bit less for them. Do you realise that using time dilation, and length contraction from attaining a percentage of the speed of light, that we could reach the center of our Galaxy in a mere 12 years?

Our latest mission to Mars was the perfection of the experiments that went before. Curiosity was Preceded by Opportunity, Spirit and Sojourner. They led the way and broke the ground. Wen of course knew we could land the craft, it was the fourth time.

We can make the journey with safety. To date, Project Orion remains the best possibility for Interstellar travel.

480px-ProjectOrionConfiguration.png240px-Orion_pulse_unit.png440px-Project-Orion_propulsion-module_section.png

I detest Youtube, as my Sig says, but I showed this to Donteatus, and he enjoyed it. Perhaps you will too. This special has a great deal about Project Orion, and how we might use it if we were threatened by an unstoppable force that would destroy our planet. In any case, this is something of an effort for me, as I have YT barred, but I hope you enjoy it.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hds_fiwSqs[/media]

It is just a white rectangle to me, but I hope you enjoy it. Mostly I hope I got it right. As long as it is not a pole dancer we should be on the right show.

@ Slave....of course you have to use a filter....there is a lot of inaccuracies on the internet. What you just said is very true in every way. But you need to be able to at least contemplate the thought first then proceed to research and look at it objectively and make up your own mind. I'm a huge believer in that.

Then I ask you to have a good look at the Orion Project, and get back to with regards to human space travel.

Edited by psyche101

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Thanks Hazzard that was interesting.....I guess I wasn't up to date on this guy. But that doesn't change the fact that so many high profile, professional people, as well as others haven't seen a UFO.....Canadian Govt too has witnessed UFO's. What they are and where they are from is a mystery, but they are real.

I take it your are referring to Hellyer. My opinion is that man is a complete crackpot and most certainly has a screw loose. He claims ET and Pilots have conversations about flight maneuvers. Honestly, the guy is out in space already. His claims exceed the extraordinary to say the least, but we are not seeing extraordinary proof for these extraordinary claims.

Buzz Aldrin and Gordon Cooper...Cooper believed till his dying day that they were real. Charles Halt, former Air Force Colonel accused US of coverup on this subject. It certainly is an interesting subject and definitely something is going on out there that's alien to us. What? Not sure.

Buzz Aldrin did not see any UFO, and he is most upset that the science channel made out he did. He asked them to retract what they stitched together, and they refused.

Gordon Cooper has many issues with NASA, it was not a neat happy split. You might want to read up on Coops, and see where he is coming from before you interpret his words.

And Halt, what can I say. The evidence is against him. But Boon is more qualified than I to take that path. Can you tell me how a Colonel, trained professional observer, managed to walk right up to an Alien craft, and not manage to come back with anything other than the verbal? Are they not trained all their lives to do better than that? That is an ugly story, and many sides to the explanation However, with a UFO landing in the middle of a highly populated country, how did it manage to evade all the telescopes satellites, radio telescopes and just prying eyes and out into space?

Do you realise that from all the UFO reports we have seen, not a single one of them has been tracked heading out into, or coming from space? We have literally thousands of eye trained on the sky 24/7. An amateur recorded the last 2 Jupiter stikes and had to inform NASA. When we got the WOW! signale, we got something of a direction. If one of these things headed out into space, we would have a direction to work with. But across all time, all cases, not one "Spaceship" has ever actually been proven to enter space itself. How can they be Aliens if they never leave, or never arrive?

Edited by psyche101

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Dont blame me, it was BooN that made me wear it.

Now I cant take it off. :angry:

And I thought you were just a cheery chap all year round! :D

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Want your original? I still have a copy of it.

Just kidding, dude,... The Vampire loves the Santa hat. :tu:

One of those Little Red Riding Hood deals I imagine? :unsure2:

Edited by Hazzard
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Hi Hazzard,

Again, I respectfully disagree with much of your thoughts.

Many of today’s "modern" medical tools and techniques...including prescription drugs and pregnancy tests...can, in fact, be traced back over 5,000 years. Every temple possessed a very well equipped laboratory in which medicines were prepared and stored.

It’s well known that Egyptian medicine was highly advanced for it’s time. Prosthetics, such as artificial toes and eyeballs, were also used. Cairo museum (which was the most fascinating museum I've ever visited) has a collection of surgical instruments, including scalpels, scissors, copper needles, forceps, spoons, lancets, hooks, probes and pincer which I saw. A collection of 37 instruments is engraved on a wall in the temple of Kom-Ombo (2nd century BC).

The Edwin Smith Papyrus contains a list of instruments, including lint, swabs, bandage, adhesive plaster (x-formed), support, surgical stitches and cauterization.

Recently, American researchers have described a 23 cm screw, tying the thigh and calf bones, fixed into a mummy dating back to the 6th century BC.

An inscription in the tomb of Ipujy, an architect of the 19th dynasty (1300 BC) shows the physician reducing a dislocated joint. The procedure is exactly similar to the modern “Kocher’s technique” orthopedics use today.

The diagnosis of sciatic pain was well described in the Edwin Smith Papyrus...this method of examination is what medical students today know as “Lassauge’s test”.

Joint pain, internal medicine, brain surgery, all things the ancients understood as well as we do today and treated it properly.

I visited Australia….and attended a very informative talk on how the Aboriginals (fascinating people) handed down their information through stories in the stars. The stars are their books...telling them how to live. That way their information lasts forever…these stories are a link to their history. Like I said before, all cultures throughout the world believe Gods from the heavens came down and gave them information to make their lives easier. And they have written it down or told the stories using the stars in the night sky. Etched into a rock is a human like figure seated in an airborne vehicle. If this isn't a description of an ancient astronaut then what does it mean?

As far as the Egyptians, and other ancient cultures building structures with shear backbreaking labour….the up-to-date information tells us the cutting of the stone is not done by man. It was done by machine (actually we don’t have machines that can cut like that today) but we are starting to see that laser is a possibility.

I have read about the Orion Project. And your info is very interesting.

I agree there is a lot of mysterious sightings and odd experiences…but I believe a lot of these experiences are not lies. We just don’t understand what they are and who is in control when it comes to UFO’s. Just because you don’t have the answers doesn’t mean these people didn’t experience it.

Astronaunts are not not allowed to talk about UFO sightings but years ago I saw an interview with Buzz Aldrin and he didn’t deny seeing it…..he just said he didn’t know what it was. He battled with depression and other issues after that trip. And Cooper was a firm believer in UFO’s. Cooper said “For many years I have lived with a lie, a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics.” You can’t dismiss these men and their beliefs as crazy. Well you can, but I don’t.

Edited by sslama

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Hi Hazzard, Again, I respectfully disagree with much of your thoughts.

Hi sslama As you have answered the questions in my post, I will assume that you have simply got names mixed up.

Many of today’s "modern" medical tools and techniques...including prescription drugs and pregnancy tests...can, in fact, be traced back over 5,000 years. Every temple possessed a very well equipped laboratory in which medicines were prepared and stored. It’s well known that Egyptian medicine was highly advanced for it’s time. Prosthetics, such as artificial toes and eyeballs, were also used. Cairo museum (which was the most fascinating museum I've ever visited) has a collection of surgical instruments, including scalpels, scissors, copper needles, forceps, spoons, lancets, hooks, probes and pincer which I saw. A collection of 37 instruments is engraved on a wall in the temple of Kom-Ombo (2nd century BC).

They can be traced yes, I agree with that, traced being the operative word here. It is not quite the same thing though. This is what some ancient instruments look like:

Image6.jpg

Not quite the same as

Gillies_Needle_Holder_Surgical_Instruments.jpg

But to be expected with development.

The people of Ancient Egypt made several major medical discoveries and began treating diseases in a physical manner alongside older spiritual cures.
The Egyptians did not perform major surgery as conducted today they did make major developments in surgical knowledge and practice
.Egyptian physicians are known to have performed some minor surgical operations however. The Papyrus Edwin Smith informs us of methods used to treat dislocated bones

Alongside the medical practises, superstitious incantations were chanted as part of the treatment. I do not understand how you do not see this as an obvious indicator that we were still very much in infancy, and dabbling with ideas. Medicine worked. and it is still around today, appealing to gods did not, so it is gone. Chinese medecine, Indian Medicine, Egyptian Medicine and surgeries all began roughly in the same period - about 5-6,000 years ago, yet separated by oceans, indicating a new phase in mans evolutionary development. All countries that had taken and academic path were starting to think about the same thing, and becoming aware of the world around us. Hunter gathering was coming to an end, societies with compassion and benevolence would naturally turn to medicine.
The Edwin Smith Papyrus contains a list of instruments, including lint, swabs, bandage, adhesive plaster (x-formed), support, surgical stitches and cauterization.

It's not the only one, in addition to the The Edwin Smith Papyrus there is the The Ebers Papyrus and the the Kahun Gynecological Papyrus. Again, indicating an multiple effort achieved by the thoughts of many men and into specialised areas. Not a sudden development.

Recently, American researchers have described a 23 cm screw, tying the thigh and calf bones, fixed into a mummy dating back to the 6
th
century BC.

But nobody can say if it was fixed in place before, or after death. It could be part of the embalming process, Mummies were well looked after, we we are lucky to know.
An inscription in the tomb of Ipujy, an architect of the 19
th
dynasty (1300 BC) shows the physician reducing a dislocated joint. The procedure is exactly similar to the modern “Kocher’s technique” orthopedics use today. The diagnosis of sciatic pain was well described in the Edwin Smith Papyrus...this method of examination is what medical students today know as “Lassauge’s test”. Joint pain, internal medicine, brain surgery, all things the ancients understood as well as we do today and treated it properly.

Not as well, not by a long shot. Tutankhamen still managed to die of an infection. Emil Theodor Kocher is not simply known for on technique, he is also known for his work in the physiology, pathology and surgery of the Thyroid. None of which was equalled by ancient Egypt. As per my signature, Newton said that our perspective is greater when we stand on the shoulder of giants. And that is what we are seeing, men working form older records, improving on technique, rediscovering practices, there is nothing sudden about it.
I visited Australia….and attended a very informative talk on how the Aboriginals (fascinating people) handed down their information through stories in the stars. The stars are their books...telling them how to live. That way their information lasts forever…these stories are a link to their history. Like I said before, all cultures throughout the world believe Gods from the heavens came down and gave them information to make their lives easier. And they have written it down or told the stories using the stars in the night sky.

You may have attended a talk, but it is not quite the same as listening to an Elder.

Indigenous Culture here does not traditionally share stories. My Niece on my wife's side spent quite a few years working at Batchelor Uni here in Australia on recording, and restoring surviving languages. Historical record is kept orally, and stories are considered a thing of value amongst this indigenous, not to be freely shared. They can be traded burt not ever given away. You would have received a basic outline of the Dreamtime as has been filtered down. The entire version is well beyond myself, but what I do know is filled with tales of Magafauna such as is seen in the foffil record, not spacemen. The spirits are a completely different concept, coming form both over and under, it's a broader brush than considering "a star" it's more like considering the entire Milky Way an living breathing thing, a God in the sky.
Etched into a rock is a human like figure seated in an airborne vehicle. If this isn't a description of an ancient astronaut then what does it mean?

This is where I feel you cross the line, and show great disrespect toward other people, culture, and history.

What could it be indeed. A Head dress for a ceremony yoiu and I might never be aware of. A healing process, an indicator of a great hunter, the sun rising, a drug induced hallucination as the Aztecs and Inca were famous for, and artitistic interpretation of how the sun got in the sky, a million things.

Our narrow modern view cannot possibly account for the process that brought man to the technological wonder of today. Each time a piece of this history is tainted, it is lost. As such interpretation is irreparable vandalism, and extraordinarily selfish in my opinion as one gives no thought to not only the real record, but all those you rob from ever learning the true story. I think if people have such thoughts. they should pursue such personally, and not taint out fragile historical record. It's a crime the way I see it.
As far as the Egyptians, and other ancient cultures building structures with shear backbreaking labour….the up-to-date information tells us the cutting of the stone is not done by man. It was done by machine (actually we don’t have machines that can cut like that today) but we are starting to see that laser is a possibility.

Absolute Codswallop. Also, Ancient Rome had power tools.

There is an entire thread on Ancient Aliens here, and every single such questions has been answered thoroughly and with in depth information to accompany said explanations All that I see is two in that thread that insist in deliberate ignorane to keep the ideal afloat. It is embarrassing the s=the species as a whole in my opinion. For some reason, some people seem to think asking the same question repeatedly somehow validates it. All that illustrates is extraordinary ignorance and refusal to learn, and as has been mentioned, it does appear the ignorance is indeed deliberate. Nobody is that stupid.

I work in construction, I can understand the principals quite well. I struggle to see how others do
not
understand what has been explained to be quite frank.

The TV show Ancient Aliens has pushed theses claims, all the while avoiding more impressive structures such as the Pantheon or the Colosseum, both of which outdate the Megalithic sites sampled on the TV show. They avoided older, more complex structures, because those structures had clear records of man building them. And they misconstrued, exaggerated, speculated, and outright lied on the TV show about the sites to make them sound more mysterious. The actual facts go a bit more like the following:

AA: “One of the most intriguing thing there is it that the stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite. The only stone that is harder than diorite is diamond, so the only way this could have been achieved is if the tools were tipped with diamonds.”

This is funny because it’s totally wrong, the stones are not granite or diorite at Pumapunku, they are Red Sandstone and Andesite, but this is also funny because of the way he says it.

AA: “The stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite.”

Well yeah, actually it is sandstone. You can’t blame him though for it becomes obvious that throughout the series he often just repeats things he has heard in Eric Von Daniken’s books. Von Daniken’s books are what the Ancient Aliens series is based on. Later we see Eric Von Daniken himself make the exact same, totally wrong claim.

AA: “Of course [Pumapunku was] made out of stones found on Earth, because you don’t transport granite or diorite from another solar system.”

Von Daniken continues building up this false dilemma:

AA: “One of these platforms is 800 tons.”

That is very incorrect, the heaviest block at Pumapunku is 130 tons, and most of the stones are much smaller than that. So he is off by a whopping 670 tons! Unfortunately we will come to expect this kind of thing from Von Daniken as we progress.

Ancient Aliens spends quite a lot of time pointing out the various features in the stone masonry at Pumapunku before declaring it impossible to do without power tools.

AA: “Each of these small drills holes are basically evenly spaced along this routed groove. To me it’s clear that power tools have been used on this unusual block of stone here.”

AA: “This surface is as smooth as a table top, like in your kitchen. There’s no wave to it. This was machined.”

The sandstone and andesite stones at Pumapunku would have been easily worked with the most basic stone working tools, the idea that diamond tipped power saws were needed is ridiculous. The red sandstone was relatively soft and easy to work with, and even though andesite is pretty hard, because of the way it cooled it could be easily flaked off using stones as soft as 5.5 on the Mohs scale. Such pounding stones were found all over andesite quarries in the area.

Contrary to Ancient Aliens’ claims that archeologists are baffled by Pumapunku, Archeologists know the basics about how Pumapunku’s stones were cut and shaped. This is partly because there is evidence for this all over the site itself.

They actually used a method that almost all ancient stone workers used. They used hard -pounding stones to pound out troth like depressions; later on they used flat stones and sand to grind the stone to make a polished surface. We will see later on that this is also how the Egyptians, 1000’s of years before this, made their flat surfaced granite monuments like obelisks.

Sand, as we will see later when we look at Egypt, has extremely hard particles in it and, if placed between a flat surface and a rock, can polish even the hardest stones known to man. In fact, the harder the stone is the better it can be polished using sand.

We will also see that how sand can turn a piece of copper into a very efficient granite saw or granite drill – a method which the Egyptians utilized quite well.

Some stones at Pumapunku that Ancient Aliens would never show the cameras are the ones that were in the middle of this process. They show that at the same time a stone was being pounded by stone hammers, which created these troth like depressions, the grinding and polishing was taking place on the other end of the stone. Unfinished stones like this one clearly show how they were shaped – and it wasn’t with lasers.

I have read about the Orion Project. And your info is very interesting.

Thank you, I hope you enjoyed the Nat Geo special.

It shows that less advanced species can indeed traverse space. What is needed is understanding, not speed. Not matter how fast we go, the Universe is not only to big to get across, it is ever expanding.

So it seems to me that we should see these "wading species" the ones who are just testing the waters of space, starting to look around, we do not all have to be majorly advanced. No species has to be to cross space, and yet, why go into space when you can make a phone call, ask for some specifications and pictures, and arrange to visit? Is that not an intelligent approach? Why would species not cross space with signals to find intelligent others first?
I agree there is a lot of mysterious sightings and odd experiences…but I believe a lot of these experiences are not lies. We just don’t understand what they are and who is in control when it comes to UFO’s. Just because you don’t have the answers doesn’t mean these people didn’t experience it.

I never said I have the answers, and in fact, I think looking for a single one to explain this wide ranging phenomena is a fools errand. I feel there has to be many answers to the questions that abound. I do note however, that all answers regarding the UFO phenomena to date have come from the earth, beneath our feet. I ask, why is that trend likely to change all of a sudden?
Astronaunts are not not allowed to talk about UFO sightings but years ago I saw an interview with Buzz Aldrin and he didn’t deny seeing it…..he just said he didn’t know what it was. He battled with depression and other issues after that trip. And Cooper was a firm believer in UFO’s. Cooper said “For many years I have lived with a lie, a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics.” You can’t dismiss these men and their beliefs as crazy. Well you can, but I don’t.

Well, here is what Buzz himself had to say, I do know about his depression problems, and how he struggled with being the second man on the moon, just another lesson I learned from out lost friend MID,

To get the story straight, I called Buzz Aldrin, who was happy to explain what happened. He said that his remarks were taken out of context to reverse his meaning. It is true that the Apollo 11 crew spotted an unidentified object moving with the spacecraft as they approached the Moon.
After they verified that this mystery object was not Apollo 11’s large rocket upper stage, which was about 6,000 miles away by then, they concluded that they were seeing one of the small panels that had linked the spacecraft to the upper stage
(any part of the spacecraft’s rocket upper stage will continue to move alongside the spacecraft, as both are floating in free-fall). These panels were too small to track from Earth and were relatively close to the Apollo spacecraft. Aldrin told me that they chose not to discuss this on the open communications channel since they were concerned that their comments might be misinterpreted. His entire explanation about identifying the panels was cut from the broadcast interview, giving the impression that the Apollo 11 crew had seen a UFO.
Aldrin told me that he was angry about the deceptive editing and asked the Science Channel to correct the intentional twisting of his remarks, but they refused.
Later, Aldrin explained what happened on CNN’s Larry King Live (left, bottom) but was nearly cut off by the host before he could finish.

With the popularity of YouTube, this same question is addressed to me repeatedly, as in: “Check out this video on YouTube with Buzz Aldrin saying he saw a UFO on Apollo 11. Who is fibbing? NASA or the great American hero, Buzz Aldrin?” My answer was that the fibbing was being done by the producers of the video, who omitted the second half of the interview.

It is instructive to watch this interview to see the ways the story is embellished and ultimately manipulated.
Most of the talking is done by the interviewer and not Aldrin, but their comments have been edited to create the illusion of a seamless narrative. Throughout the interview we see a montage of short scenes from Apollo and other missions, including a blurry image through the window taken during a later flight. Only a critical viewer will distinguish what Aldrin said from the narrative by the interviewer or realize that the video clips are unrelated. The end product is clever disinformation, strongly suggesting—without explicitly lying—that Aldrin and his crewmates saw an alien spacecraft.

I have spoken with Dr David Morrison myself on this matter, via email, personally I feel this also is incorrect, and that Astronaut Collins most likely identified the debris as a piece of Mylar that came loose during the CSM-LM separation. But, that is indeed a personal view that I feel best fits the facts available to us, however in no place does Buzz say that there was a genuine UFO that was never identified.

I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--
Edgar Mitchell

Cooper said he saw a UFO over Germany, his falling out wit NASA began with APollo 13, he expected to be selected, but after a falling ut with management, he lost the position to Shepard, and he was not happy about it. He wanted to be remembered He dies seem to have accomplished that. Did you know the name Collins when I mentioned it above? Maybe, maybe not, but I bet you know the names Cooper, Aldrin, Armstrong and Mitchell well dont you, and for very good reason. These men stood out, Cooper did too, didn't he.
Edited by psyche101
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Good Lord, psyche,... :nw:

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Good Lord, psyche,... :nw:

Holy cow indeed! That said, I am very happy to see this particular thread plow relentlessly on.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited to add: this time around I hope to be more active. :-)

Edited by badeskov
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Holy cow indeed! That said, I am very happy to see this particular thread plow relentlessly on.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited to add: this time around I hope to be more active. :-)

Indeed, it has been a while since the BE thread has been very active. 2012 didn't seem to be a very good year for compelling evidence of alien visitation. Maybe there is still some recent information that has yet to be brought to light. I am skeptical however to steal a line from Hazz, I am still awaiting that compelling exhibit 'A'. :tu:

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Indeed, it has been a while since the BE thread has been very active. 2012 didn't seem to be a very good year for compelling evidence of alien visitation. Maybe there is still some recent information that has yet to be brought to light. I am skeptical however to steal a line from Hazz, I am still awaiting that compelling exhibit 'A'. :tu:

Last year was a slow year for the BE thread, but hopefully 2013 will be much better. And as you mention, Exhibit 'A' seems as elusive as ever.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited by badeskov
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Exhibit 'A' seems as elusive as ever.

I have my opinions on why that is but I'll just leave it at that. ^_^:tu:

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I have my opinions on why that is but I'll just leave it at that. ^_^:tu:

Why do I have a feeling that I share your opinions in that respect, S2F?

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Indeed, it has been a while since the BE thread has been very active. 2012 didn't seem to be a very good year for compelling evidence of alien visitation.

Oh come on, with all those precision Walls? What more could you ask for?

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Im in,...

This is how the previous Best Evidence threads started,...

UFOs, Alien abductions, Area 51, Cattle mutilations, Crop circles, Alien structures and artifacts on the moon and Mars...

What evidence is there, and most importantly, how good is the evidence, that intelligent extraterrestrials are out there, have found Earth, and are now here doing all the things we hear about?

As believers begin to build the case about UFOs and a possible ET connection, the foundation of this is built on hear say, speculations, theories, guess work, assumptions, beliefs and emotions.

Me, personally, I do not deal in any of that (not when it comes to this) I deal in knowledge. There is a vast difference between the two. You may believe all you want, but knowledge requires a higher standard than that which propels belief.

There is no reason to get upset about it. What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.

We have eyewitness testimony from people that saw something strange that they could not identify flying around, something we call a UFO, where the U stands for Unidentified,... there is nothing else attached to it.

We have lots of cool stories, weird radar returns, video clips and pictures, but that is all we have so far... We have nothing here but peoples opinions and and their belief... an idea about what these observations might represent.

To me thats not even close to enough. I need better evidence!!

Show me a peer review scientific journal that claims for a fact that ET space ships are here, and you will have my full attention. The scientific journals I have seen are only about UFOs.

I think that Steven Schafersman said it best...

I might say, however, that as an investigator of pseudo scientific topics for over twenty years my experience has taught me that the first things to suspect and look for are fraud, forgery, deception, misrepresentation, sophistry, and specious reasoning, and if these are not in evidence, I then look for illogical reasoning, self-deception, misreading, inadvertently fudged data, and willful misunderstanding.

If these are not in evidence, I then look for ignorance, innocent mistakes, misinterpretations, equipment errors, out-of-date references, overlooked results or causes, etc.

Unfortunately, ALL of these items MUST be examined FIRST when investigating any pseudo scientific topic, BEFORE one begins looking for presumed new or unusual natural phenomena. --Steven Schafersman.

Can anyone honestly say he examined and eliminated all the above items before he convinced himself that some of these UFOs are Alien star ships?

Edited by Hazzard

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We all wish to keep the thread alive ,The lack of exhibit-A no doubt taks a bit of the interest out of it,but we all must slog on !

I for one can see a day when we find some evidence in our very own solar system of life.All beit microbial ,life never the less.

As for terrestrial Little Green creatures we all want to see Blasting Rays outta there Flying Saucers,Im purty sure them-thar `s are of the imagination type.

Remember Greed drives the planet as it goes for now.

Edited by DONTEATUS
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We all wish to keep the thread alive ,The lack of exhibit-A no doubt taks a bit of the interest out of it,but we all must slog on !

I for one can see a day when we find some evidence in our very own solar system of life.All beit microbial ,life never the less.

As for terrestrial Little Green creatures we all want to see Blasting Rays outta there Flying Saucers,Im purty sure them-thar `s are of the imagination type.

I still have high hopes for Curiosity. We may yet find Exhibit 'A' in our back yard. :tu:

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Good Lord, psyche,... :nw:

Thank you my friend, for the kind words, and the smarts to put together this compelling three stage thread. It has well compressed all the argument and debate into a simple question. If ET is here, show me the money. Several hundred pages over three threads has managed no more that strong protest and an insistance that has shown the ETH is indeed a hypothesis only, at best. When we sort the wheat from the chaff, we see what is compelling about the subject, and whilst that might be minimal, it remains compelling, but this is the only thread I think in existence that lays out the ETH bare bones. Good to see so many named and shamed, and the few amazing instances stand out for what they are, truly amazing. I think after three threads, we have managed to outline the most impressive events still uncategorised to date to be:

1 - The WOW! Signal

2 - Portage County

3 - The Teheran Incident.

And even with these compelling events, we stil cannot point a finger at ET, we can only wonder if ET might be a good candidate here. You are to be commended mate, of the entire phenomena was approached with such straightforwardness and honesty, it would not be in the mess it is today.

Cheers

* Hey sslama. Gone quiet there mate.

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You forgot the NOW Signal psyche101

Thats N=Nuttin

O= Outthere

W= Wink. :tu:

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UFOs, Alien abductions, Area 51, Cattle mutilations, Crop circles, Alien structures and artifacts on the moon and Mars...

What evidence is there, and most importantly, how good is the evidence, that intelligent extraterrestrials are out there, have found Earth, and are now here doing all the things we hear about?

As believers begin to build the case about UFOs and a possible ET connection, the foundation of this is built on hear say, speculations, theories, guess work, assumptions, beliefs and emotions.

Me, personally, I do not deal in any of that (not when it comes to this) I deal in knowledge. There is a vast difference between the two. You may believe all you want, but knowledge requires a higher standard than that which propels belief.

There is no reason to get upset about it. What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.

We have eyewitness testimony from people that saw something strange that they could not identify flying around, something we call a UFO, where the U stands for Unidentified,... there is nothing else attached to it.

We have lots of cool stories, weird radar returns, video clips and pictures, but that is all we have so far... We have nothing here but peoples opinions and and their belief... an idea about what these observations might represent.

To me thats not even close to enough. I need better evidence!!

Show me a peer review scientific journal that claims for a fact that ET space ships are here, and you will have my full attention. The scientific journals I have seen are only about UFOs.

I think that Steven Schafersman said it best...

I might say, however, that as an investigator of pseudo scientific topics for over twenty years my experience has taught me that the first things to suspect and look for are fraud, forgery, deception, misrepresentation, sophistry, and specious reasoning, and if these are not in evidence, I then look for illogical reasoning, self-deception, misreading, inadvertently fudged data, and willful misunderstanding.

If these are not in evidence, I then look for ignorance, innocent mistakes, misinterpretations, equipment errors, out-of-date references, overlooked results or causes, etc.

Unfortunately, ALL of these items MUST be examined FIRST when investigating any pseudo scientific topic, BEFORE one begins looking for presumed new or unusual natural phenomena. --Steven Schafersman.

Can anyone honestly say he examined and eliminated all the above items before he convinced himself that some of these UFOs are Alien star ships?

Here is what you have been looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9sBKE02_gA

Jessie-Roestenberg.jpg

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread562598/pg1

Done.

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So UFOs are crewed by blonde chicks in figure hugging blue jumpsuits? I think we could learn to live with that.

Actually, this could be another one of the UFOs with Windows stories for the other thread.

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I know MacGuffin and Zoser really hate this question, but I'm going to ask again, now that Psyche has picked out 3 'goodun's..

Do any of the ufo=alien believers have any *other* candidate cases that they feel are more or equally worthy (in terms of actual evidence or compelling information) for *really* in-depth analysis?

Please note that I'm *not* talking about well-told stories! I'm talking about cases where there is good quality documentation, highly credible corroboration, very compelling imagery, physical evidence, matching radar data.. or at least a reasonable combination of some of those..

Why am I asking? Well, surely these 'best' cases are the ones that should be focused on, and given the better technology available to all and sundry, maybe there are possibilities for new ways to research them, or perhaps tiny details that may have been missed... I'm very keen to have a really long hard look at maybe one or two cases (and I'll happily admit that I'm not especially up to speed on either the Portage or Teheran incidents) and perhaps revive some old threads or create new ones as appropriate.

But I'd like to make sure I am spending my time where it is likely to be useful, so I'm keen to hear of other cases that should be in, say, the top five...

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