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Chemotherapy Boosts Cancer Growth

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Hmmmm,in the usa alone,about 100,000 and that's less,die from drug related side affects .

Acupuncture has killed no one in this country for 20 years,neither has herbs .

No idea where your book got its numbers ,but its bull**** .

And 2003,was ten years ago,which means the data is even older than that,and probably from instances in third world countries.

You won't find the data on line ,because it doesn't exist .

Lol .

You know nothing about medicine. Conventional or otherwise ,as far as I can see.

Another mole.

So, please, oh Goddess, enlighten us, how many cancer patients were cured with quackery in 10 years? You know everything about medicine, don't you? Your ferociousness understandable... $100 per hour... Not bad for the job trained (in a week, or two) monkey could do and charge one banana per hour.

Edit to add:

Can you comment on the paper Wen-Chien Chou, et al, Int.J.Cardiology 49 (1995) 173-177? Miraculous cure... Straight to heavens...

Edited by bmk1245
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Just realized, you've edited your post

[...]

It's absolutely illegal to use anything but one use needles in the USA ,since the 90s,so I'd love to know where anyone is getting hepatitis,except at some bad clinic run by an MD .

[...]

And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?

[...]

Part of acupuncture board exams,is JUST infectious disease control ,just so we know it all,before we go out sticking people.

We also have to know how to autoclave needles,even if we don't do it .

I believe this is also the case in europe.

This,does happen in china however....are we talking about Beijing ?

[...]

Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper handling?

[...]

Also,you won't find a single case of death,from an herb ,being dispensed by a qualified licensed herbalist .

[...]

And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?

[...]

QUALIFIED LICENSED HERBALIST .

Not in the usa

[...]

As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.

[...]

The only herbal deaths have ever been from some scheister,taking a good herb ,and stupidly adding it to some other formula,JUST TO MAKE MONEY .

Herbalists have a college DEGREE in herbs. Herbs are just as dangerous as drugs,when not taken properly ,so no herbalist ,has ever killed anyone,to my knowledge .Not in the usa .

Just people using herbs out of context,just to make money .

This is why Ephedra is illegal in the usa.

It was exploited ,people died,so make it illegal.

But you don't see them doing that with all the drugs that kill dozens yearly .No that they leave on the market ,to make THEM money .

[...]

But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.

So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business*.

Edit to add:

* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

Edited by bmk1245

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So, please, oh Goddess, enlighten us, how many cancer patients were cured with quackery in 10 years? You know everything about medicine, don't you? Your ferociousness understandable... $100 per hour... Not bad for the job trained (in a week, or two) monkey could do and charge one banana per hour.

Edit to add:

Can you comment on the paper Wen-Chien Chou, et al, Int.J.Cardiology 49 (1995) 173-177? Miraculous cure... Straight to heavens...

Acupuncture is a five year degree,AFTER college . So you need all the prerequisite someone who's going into any medicine field needs ,which includes doctors ,nurses,,PAs....Biology ,chemistry,bio chem ,anatomy ,gross anatomy ...we have to do them all,just like your doctor does ....duh ...then its another 5 year's ,so its a nine year degree deary.

You sound almost jealous .

And as I said,there been no cases of deaths from herbs,by a licensed herbalist,in the usa,in over 20 years,if not more.

Your case is one from Taiwan ,and its one case.

Maybe look up deaths from vioxx ,deaths from amiodarone,deaths from just about every federally approved drug on the market ,including aspirin and Tylenol .

One idiocycratic case,owes ahh herbs are bad,but let's ignore the 100s of THOUSANDS OF DEATHS YEARLY ,from **** we approve as safe,and then keep on the market,even after its shown to cause...well death !

Look a little harder .lol

Edited by Simbi Laveau

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O

Just realized, you've edited your post

And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?

Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper handling?

And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?

As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.

But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.

So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business*.

Edit to add:

* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

I charge what I deserve to make for my time. I don't hurt anyone ,and I help people .What is it you do ?

I also belong to ACUPUNCTURISTS WITHOUT BORDERS .

I didn't go to sandy hook ,because of my feelings on it,but I work with drug addicts and 911 responders,all the time,for no fee at all.

Oh yeah,just like doctors without borders. We do a lot ,just to help ,,FOR FREE.

I occ work at the AIDS clinic on 18 th ,for nothing....just to help .

I give all city workers a break on price,and elderly get a huge discount ,but you knew that. My regular fee is under 100$ btw,but you knew that too .

You know very little about acupuncturists and herbalists in the usa ...... .tut .

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Just realized, you've edited your post

And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?

Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper handling?

And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?

As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.

But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.

So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business*.

Edit to add:

* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

You might want to look up Sloan Kettering Cancer center.

They are the premiere cancer research hospital in the usa.

They do a ton of research ,and they include acupuncture and herbs in their treatment plan.

The docto in charge of it all,is a classically trained acupuncturist and herbalist,who then went to medical school .

He believe the best cure for cancer ,involves both modalities .

Excuse me while I lol again.

Pharm does not true research,except to make more drugs .

They also lie when their study results are negative ,so its not like their research is even credible .

They also make up stuff about alternative treatments that are not true ,because they don't want us stealing their patients.

Also,if we say we cured cancer,we can be put in jail .It's why no alternative pratictioner can say that anywhere,so of course you won't find articles about it .

LOL

Cancer treatments in reg hospitals also,do not cure cancer ,so ....no difference really .

Except they charge 10000s for your trouble ,and we charge next to nothing ..lol lol lol

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/research

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Will they:

1) cure cancer?

2) make 100% you won't get cancer?

3) gives you bit more chances not to get cancer?

Which one?

Can you give references to the studies of that? Don't bother with YT, Pravda, and similar "sources".

Here's a good place to start reading:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22211760

If you're too thick to realize that antioxidants help to prevent cancer and fight it...there's no helping you at all. Medical science has even shown this and you don't even know that! Your skepticism and opinions are invalid based on your sheer ignorance of...damn near everything!

Edited by WoIverine

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Acupuncture is a five year degree,AFTER college . So you need all the prerequisite someone who's going into any medicine field needs ,which includes doctors ,nurses,,PAs....Biology ,chemistry,bio chem ,anatomy ,gross anatomy ...we have to do them all,just like your doctor does ....duh ...then its another 5 year's ,so its a nine year degree deary.

[...]

So, basically, you are learning mainstream medicine, and just a tiny bit of acupuncture? Ok, granted, you know a lot.

[...]

You sound almost jealous .

[...]

Not at all.

[...]

And as I said,there been no cases of deaths from herbs,by a licensed herbalist,in the usa,in over 20 years,if not more.

[...]

And how many cancer patients were cured in over 20 years with quack medicine?

[...]

Your case is one from Taiwan ,and its one case.

[...]

Ok, another one (link, in Lithuanian): baby (1.5 year old) died 'cause mother "cured" him with herbs. Whos fault that is? Brainwashed mother, or quackery peddlers?

[...]

Maybe look up deaths from vioxx ,deaths from amiodarone,deaths from just about every federally approved drug on the market ,including aspirin and Tylenol .

One idiocycratic case,owes ahh herbs are bad,but let's ignore the 100s of THOUSANDS OF DEATHS YEARLY ,from **** we approve as safe,and then keep on the market,even after its shown to cause...well death !

Look a little harder .lol

And you have statistic on that, on every drug? Basically, I can die from consuming too much water. So what? Can I blame water company for that? Ah, right, plumber...

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O

I charge what I deserve to make for my time. I don't hurt anyone ,and I help people .What is it you do ?

I also belong to ACUPUNCTURISTS WITHOUT BORDERS .

I didn't go to sandy hook ,because of my feelings on it,but I work with drug addicts and 911 responders,all the time,for no fee at all.

Oh yeah,just like doctors without borders. We do a lot ,just to help ,,FOR FREE.

I occ work at the AIDS clinic on 18 th ,for nothing....just to help .

I give all city workers a break on price,and elderly get a huge discount ,but you knew that. My regular fee is under 100$ btw,but you knew that too .

[...]

Oh, ok, you're mother Teresa II. Right....

[...]

You know very little about acupuncturists and herbalists in the usa ...... .tut .

Quacks, as in any other country.

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Here's a good place to start reading:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22211760

If you're too thick to realize that antioxidants help to prevent cancer and fight it...there's no helping you at all. Medical science has even shown this and you don't even know that! Your skepticism and opinions are invalid based on your sheer ignorance of...damn near everything!

Did you, actually, read my questions?!

So again: will antioxidants make 100% sure you will not get cancer, or not?! What was the cause of the death of Anthony Sattilaro, again, huh?

Edited by bmk1245

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Oh grow up and join reality.

Say that to yourself the next time a loved one dies. I've been through it enough.

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Did you, actually, read my questions?!

So again: will antioxidants make 100% sure you will not get cancer, or not?! What was the cause of the death of Anthony Sattilaro, again, huh?

What kind of question is that ? Of course it won't prevent cancer 100% of the time , does chemo or any other cancer treatment work 100% of the time on all patients .... of course not , there are many different cancers and many different ways to treat them , trying to break it down the way you have is just not being realistic .

I'm going to take a guess here and say that you have not had any close dealing with cancer suffers ?

My father in law has had cancer for the last 2 years , he spent 18 months of chemo and the cancer neither grew or shrunk , it has just stayed the same but ........ the amount of other problems that have come up due to the chemo has been incredible , the chemo takes away all your ability to fight other normal infections and this is where the problem lies .

It seems that chemo can do more harm than good most times ( It does work for some people however ) and the study seems to show just that .

I agree with Wolverine , a blend of both medical and alternative treatment is what is required , it can't make it any worse , that's for sure !

BMK - your attitude is rubbish , I can bet my bottom dollar that if YOU got cancer and modern medicine couldn't fix it , you would go looking for alternative methods to try to stay alive , or is your ego too big and you would just go out calling them all quacks ?

TiP

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Will they:

1) cure cancer?

2) make 100% you won't get cancer?

3) gives you bit more chances not to get cancer?

Which one?

Can you give references to the studies of that? Don't bother with YT, Pravda, and similar "sources".

There is a reason that tribes like Native Americans, Mayans and Old Chinese tribes said this: "White man brings disease and growths" etc etc.

They didn't suffer from cancer like we do. Because they ate the right things. That is a historic fact.

Oh, ok, you're mother Teresa II. Right....

Quacks, as in any other country.

This is hilarious.

You're arguments are pretty much slagging people off and crying Quack. You can't even back up what you say. lol

And how many cancer patients were cured in over 20 years with quack medicine?

How many are killed by chemo? How many are killed by the right food intake?

How many don't even get cancer by the right food intake? How many get more cancer from chemo?

Edited by Coffey

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They didn't suffer from cancer like we do. Because they ate the right things. That is a historic fact.

How many don't even get cancer by the right food intake? How many get more cancer from chemo?

Well cmon, you have to admit that is a severe oversimplification. There are environmental factors, age related factors, stress factors, and so many more.

It is well known that chemo is the destroyer of everything. There are A LOT of companies that try and develop medicines as a replacement to chemo or an add-on to it in an attempt to reduce toxicity or to heighten the effectivity of chemo so they can shorten the treatment duration, etc.

Only a few of these medicines make it through regulatory authorities. This is because a variety of reasons : the financial cost doesn't outway the benefit, the effectiveness is raised but the toxicity also.

And you have to realise that many things that appear in the sensational news as the new super medicine don't actually always work out in real tests. You can't just go and say the fda is a joke and doesn't do it's job because it doesn't pass EVERYTHING that appears in the news. That would be the opposite of what they are supposed to do.

If you think medicines don't get through because bigger companies wont let the smaller companies bring it on the market then just go a lil further in that thinking and realise they would just buy the company because there is a lot of money in a working medicine.

I think it sounds very ungreatful to just dismiss the countless companies and research facilities that work around the clock to find actual medicines, like they are out to destroy the world.

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There is a reason that tribes like Native Americans, Mayans and Old Chinese tribes said this: "White man brings disease and growths" etc etc.

They didn't suffer from cancer like we do. Because they ate the right things. That is a historic fact.

[...]

Not exactly:

In autopsies performed on over 1000 mummies from Chile and Peru,

Gerszten and Allison found only two examples: a subcutaneous lipoma on

the right side of the chest of an adolescent male and a rhabdomyosarcoma

on the right cheek of a male child approximately 12 to 18 months old

(Gerszten and Allison, 1991).

(J.W. Verano, J. World Prehist. (1997) 11(2) 237-268)

Taking raw numbers we get (not that its valid) 200 per 100000

Cancer rates nowadays - 200-300 per 100000.

Other points (yours and tipotep's) I'll address later.

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US Scientists Find That Chemotherapy Boosts Cancer Growth

"Chemotherapy can damage healthy cells? Say it isn’t so? You don’t need a degree to figure this one out. Poison kills indiscriminately– always has and always will. While damaging healthy cells, chemotherapy also triggers them to secrete a protein that sustains tumour growth and resistance to further treatment. Researchers in the United States made the “completely unexpected” finding they claimed while seeking to explain why cancer cells are so resilient inside the human body when they are easy to kill in the lab"

http://www.wakingtim...-cancer-growth/

.

That article was truly horrible. For one thing, the study was looking at why most cancers become resistant to chemotherapy after time. They found the release of a WNT family growth factor released by fibroblasts in the tumor microenvironment to be one of the likely causes. Treatments for cancer are horrible because they kill human cells, but I have seen more miracles than I can count and it gets better all the time. Information contained in the research paper from the article will help.

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Not exactly:

(J.W. Verano, J. World Prehist. (1997) 11(2) 237-268)

Taking raw numbers we get (not that its valid) 200 per 100000

Cancer rates nowadays - 200-300 per 100000.

Other points (yours and tipotep's) I'll address later.

Yeah 2 cases from 1000.

1 in 3 women and 1 in 2 men will develop cancer in their lifetime in our society. So huge difference in numbers there.

Well cmon, you have to admit that is a severe oversimplification. There are environmental factors, age related factors, stress factors, and so many more.

It is well known that chemo is the destroyer of everything. There are A LOT of companies that try and develop medicines as a replacement to chemo or an add-on to it in an attempt to reduce toxicity or to heighten the effectivity of chemo so they can shorten the treatment duration, etc.

Only a few of these medicines make it through regulatory authorities. This is because a variety of reasons : the financial cost doesn't outway the benefit, the effectiveness is raised but the toxicity also.

And you have to realise that many things that appear in the sensational news as the new super medicine don't actually always work out in real tests. You can't just go and say the fda is a joke and doesn't do it's job because it doesn't pass EVERYTHING that appears in the news. That would be the opposite of what they are supposed to do.

If you think medicines don't get through because bigger companies wont let the smaller companies bring it on the market then just go a lil further in that thinking and realise they would just buy the company because there is a lot of money in a working medicine.

I think it sounds very ungreatful to just dismiss the countless companies and research facilities that work around the clock to find actual medicines, like they are out to destroy the world.

The companies who find alternatives and actual cures don't get funded. As the documentary Simbi posted the trailer to proves. There is good doctors etc out there, they just get shot down when trying to make a difference.

Here is the full documentary:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7b5vN8P9v0[/media]

That article was truly horrible. For one thing, the study was looking at why most cancers become resistant to chemotherapy after time. They found the release of a WNT family growth factor released by fibroblasts in the tumor microenvironment to be one of the likely causes. Treatments for cancer are horrible because they kill human cells, but I have seen more miracles than I can count and it gets better all the time. Information contained in the research paper from the article will help.

What is your profession? Out of curiosity.

Edited by Coffey

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Have to agree with most of what wolverine said,most do not understand what all we put into our bodies with the average american diet.All those additives that most can not pronounce have a very profound effect on the human body and not in a good way.I have helped a few diabetics i know completely clear away all of there symptoms just by following a certain diet and nutritional supplements,wont go into any advice but refined sugars and starches kill!

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What kind of question is that ? Of course it won't prevent cancer 100% of the time , does chemo or any other cancer treatment work 100% of the time on all patients .... of course not , there are many different cancers and many different ways to treat them , trying to break it down the way you have is just not being realistic .

[...]

I asked that to make sure it won't come up as a cure (not that it was implied by wolverine). And I'm not against antioxidants in neither way.

[...]

I'm going to take a guess here and say that you have not had any close dealing with cancer suffers ?

[...]

Not close relatives, but few people I know.

[...]

It seems that chemo can do more harm than good most times ( It does work for some people however ) and the study seems to show just that .

[...]

Thats why scientists work to wind better ways to deal with cancer.

[...]

BMK - your attitude is rubbish , I can bet my bottom dollar that if YOU got cancer and modern medicine couldn't fix it , you would go looking for alternative methods to try to stay alive , or is your ego too big and you would just go out calling them all quacks ?

Can't say for sure, but firstly I would exhaust all possibilities based on science, and not rubbish.

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Yeah 2 cases from 1000.

[...]

Did you accounted for age distribution? No. Here is cancer incidence by age in GB. What was life expectancy in pre Columbian America? Up to their thirties (for example, paper R.Storey, American Anthropologist (1985) 87(3) 519-535). So you have to compare results for the same age group. From incidence by age data for 2008-2010 for age group 0-39, we get cumulative rate of 0.9%, i.e. 9 per 1000, which more or less comparable to 0.2% (2 per 1000).

[...]

1 in 3 women and 1 in 2 men will develop cancer in their lifetime in our society. So huge difference in numbers there.

[...]

There are many factors to that, and one (of many) important - population in Western countries (well, in other too) getting older. Note the cancer incidence rates for 75+ years old.

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Did you accounted for age distribution? No. Here is cancer incidence by age in GB. What was life expectancy in pre Columbian America? Up to their thirties (for example, paper R.Storey, American Anthropologist (1985) 87(3) 519-535). So you have to compare results for the same age group. From incidence by age data for 2008-2010 for age group 0-39, we get cumulative rate of 0.9%, i.e. 9 per 1000, which more or less comparable to 0.2% (2 per 1000).

There are many factors to that, and one (of many) important - population in Western countries (well, in other too) getting older. Note the cancer incidence rates for 75+ years old.

Comparing 1 age group.... lol

Asian countries and other areas where they mostly eat natural food has had a higher average life expectancy for a long time. Nothing to do with medicines etc.

Look at the oldest person on the planet and where they are from. Top 3 oldest people living are from Japan and Japan has the highest average life expectancy.

They don't eat half the garbage we do in the west.

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Comparing 1 age group.... lol

Asian countries and other areas where they mostly eat natural food has had a higher average life expectancy for a long time. Nothing to do with medicines etc.

Look at the oldest person on the planet and where they are from. Top 3 oldest people living are from Japan and Japan has the highest average life expectancy.

They don't eat half the garbage we do in the west.

Yes they do live longer, but

[...] in 2006 [...] In other words, one in two Japanese males and one in two Japanese females are estimated to be diagnosed with cancer during their lifetime.

(link)

So, tell us more fancy stories.

Edit: missing word.

Edited by bmk1245

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Yes they do live longer, but

(link)

So, tell us more fancy stories.

Edit: missing word.

Well that must be incorrect as this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/24/worldwide-cancer-rates-uk-rate-drops

Proves that the Japanese cancer rate is lower than the UK and US....

Which is saying a lot as the Japanese have a higher population than the UK and higher life expectancy than the UK and US.

So it has more people than the UK living to an older age, yet a lower cancer rate.....

Yeah explain that one.

If you also look further down int he link I provided you can see all the more natural areas humans live eating more natural food have lower cancer rates. They certainly do not have chemotherapy, any forms of radiation etc or the garbage we eat in the west. (GM foods and nasty chemicals)

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Mods, can delete this.

Edited by WoIverine

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Well that must be incorrect as this: http://www.guardian....s-uk-rate-drops

[...]

Who is incorrect? Guardian, who uses WCRF, who uses Globocan? I checked cancer statistics for my country using data in Cancer registry from Oncology institute (for 2008 year) and Globocan (gives data for 2008). And guess what? Values of cancer incidence rates (ASR(W)) in Globocan differ from values given in a report by 21% (!) (403 - from report, 316.5 - Globocan) for male and 5% for female (218.9 - from report, 207.8 - Globocan). How can I be sure report is more correct? I simply checked population numbers: while numbers in the report are the same as from Department of Statistics, Globocan gives different values.

So, while cancer incidence rates in Japan are lower than in UK and US, differences may be much smaller.

[...]

Proves that the Japanese cancer rate is lower than the UK and US....

[...]

So in Lithuania lower as well (according Guardian), and we eat same crap, if not crappier.

[...]

Which is saying a lot as the Japanese have a higher population than the UK and higher life expectancy than the UK and US.

So it has more people than the UK living to an older age, yet a lower cancer rate.....

Yeah explain that one.

[...]

Data is standardized:

ASR (age-standardised rate)

An age-standardised rate (ASR) is a summary measure of the rate that a population would have if it had a standard age structure. Standardization is necessary when comparing several populations that differ with respect to age because age has a powerful influence on the risk of cancer. The ASR is a weighted mean of the age-specific rates; the weights are taken from population distribution of the standard population. The most frequently used standard population is the World Standard Population. The calculated incidence or mortality rate is then called age-standardised incidence or mortality rate (world). It is also expressed per 100,000. The world standard population used in GLOBOCAN is as proposed by Segi [1] and modified by Doll and al. [2]. The age-standardised rate is calculated using 10 age-groups. The result may be slightly different from that computed using the same data categorised using the traditional 5 year age bands.

(link, glossary of terms; bolding mine).

[...]

[if you also look further down int he link I provided you can see all the more natural areas humans live eating more natural food have lower cancer rates. They certainly do not have chemotherapy, any forms of radiation etc or the garbage we eat in the west. (GM foods and nasty chemicals)

Oh, please, enough with conspiracy crap and pure BS (emphasized), its really getting old,

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Oh, please, enough with conspiracy crap and pure BS (emphasized), its really getting old,

It's not conspiracy that bad chemicals and bad food are bad for us... :rolleyes:

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