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Professor Buzzkill

Another shooting involving AR-15 and teenager

105 posts in this topic

It wasn't direct towards you, I know it was from the article. That is why I stated I can't make a proper response to the article without all the details.

That's the thing with half told stories.. It doesn't give you much to go on.. Other than the children and the two adults shot dead.. That is tragic..

Teens cant generally buy guns legally either.

True.. in some parts of the US they must be over 21.. I am nearly sure that is correct

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post-39751-0-42592900-1358711585_thumb.j

Exactly, too many people have too many guns.

There you go, putting more words in my mouth.

That's the thing with half told stories.. It doesn't give you much to go on.. Other than the children and the two adults shot dead.. That is tragic..

Yeah, not much to go on. Yes it is tragic, but right now, there isn't much that can be said except the full story is not out there.

Edited by Uncle Sam
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Exactly. WE need education and proper safety courses on guns in schools, instead of just shunning the notions guns exist to them. Reality trumps fantasy every time. Teaching children when their young causes much less problems than having them discovering a gun, then not having proper education or safety about them. Kids actually are better at understanding what is bad and what is good than most adults I know. Let's say, start teaching them about guns safety and proper handling of guns around 13 - 18 will pretty much ensure accidental deaths from guns by children will a lot less problematic compared to children who accidentally shooting their friend or themselves because they don't understand what a gun is.

I agree but I might add how about parents stop trying to pretend they have a kid that has mental illness and get help for them. Plus if you do have a kid that is mentally incompetent lock your guns up.
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post-39751-0-42592900-1358711585_thumb.j

Exactly, too many people have too many guns.

You're looking for Paradise, and you ain't gonna find it. :no:

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You're looking for Paradise, and you ain't gonna find it. :no:

Do you mean a place that has cracked down on gun laws and not many own guns ?

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You're looking for Paradise, and you ain't gonna find it. :no:

There is no such thing as paradise on Earth, people really need to get their heads out of their ass and make due with what we got. His idea for paradise is hell for others.

Do you mean a place that has cracked down on gun laws and not many own guns ?

There are places like that... matter of fact, throughout history those places have the highest murder rates and death tolls. Hitler once said, to defeat a nation is to disarm the nation. Well something along those lines... he disarmed everyone and it made it easy for placing them place undesirables in concentration camps or killing them in gas chambers. If Europe's army is defeated, what is going to stop another nation from going in and killing off all the Europeans? :no:

Edited by Uncle Sam
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Parents need to be taught how to keep their guns safe and out of the hands of children, but you got to look at this way. Somewhere there is a gun that is always out in case of a break-in, so not all guns are locked away in a safe. The proper thing to do is teach and educate children about guns, not shun them from the notion they exist. You are talking about peering into the private lives of individuals to see if they are mental stable, which is not very reliable in proper sense. What you are suggesting doesn't even educate or teach children about guns, it is not an solution at all, it is aimed at law abiding citizens in notion it will help the problem which it doesn't. America's culture is based around guns and always will be, because our freedom and rights.

So far, we do not know if the 2 adults killed were his parents. Like Adam Lanza, who shot his mother, the idea of parents teaching their children does not always turn out the right way. Some parents should just not have guns in the house full stop, especially when there is a chance that the danger will not be from an intruder, but from their own child.

many of these teenagers are not the full shilling and the parents already know that, not saying they would expect to get shot by them, but the parents should not keeping guns anywhere near them in the first place.

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Its also worth mentioning these types of incidents are not completely uncommon and do happen from time to time. Id imagine with the current state of affairs in America this one will be sensationalized on why we need to ban guns. I just ask why no fervor hatred over guns on the last 100+ times an almost exactly the same (minus specific details) incidents.

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So far, we do not know if the 2 adults killed were his parents. Like Adam Lanza, who shot his mother, the idea of parents teaching their children does not always turn out the right way. Some parents should just not have guns in the house full stop, especially when there is a chance that the danger will not be from an intruder, but from their own child.

many of these teenagers are not the full shilling and the parents already know that, not saying they would expect to get shot by them, but the parents should not keeping guns anywhere near them in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with having a gun, as long as anybody unstable or otherwise unable to to securely handle a weapon cannot easily access it.

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So far, we do not know if the 2 adults killed were his parents. Like Adam Lanza, who shot his mother, the idea of parents teaching their children does not always turn out the right way. Some parents should just not have guns in the house full stop, especially when there is a chance that the danger will not be from an intruder, but from their own child.

many of these teenagers are not the full shilling and the parents already know that, not saying they would expect to get shot by them, but the parents should not keeping guns anywhere near them in the first place.

No... they should be responsible and understand their children is a danger to himself or others. When they come to that conclusion, they should place their guns in guns safes or out of reach of them. Having an a child who is mental unstable shouldn't infringe on their right to own a gun. Even if the parents don't have a gun, they could get a gun from somewhere else. Now that just throws your logic out the window that taking guns away from parents who have a child with mental problems will stop this problem. It is much more complex than you think. Education and Help for Mental Unstable people will go along way, a step in the right direction.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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There is nothing wrong with having a gun, as long as anybody unstable or otherwise unable to to securely handle a weapon cannot easily access it.

I agree. thats basically what i was saying about the parents of these children. Once they start teaching the child about the guns, the child then knows they are in the house, and many of those unstable teenagers will get access to them if they want...a lock without having the key is not going to stop them getting in somehow.

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There is nothing wrong with having a gun, as long as anybody unstable or otherwise unable to to securely handle a weapon cannot easily access it.

Im curious whos going to responsible for making this determination. The unstable part.

Edited by AsteroidX

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I agree. thats basically what i was saying about the parents of these children. Once they start teaching the child about the guns, the child then knows they are in the house, and many of those unstable teenagers will get access to them if they want...a lock without having the key is not going to stop them getting in somehow.

Teaching children about guns isn't going to make them go on a rampage and shot everyone up, matter of fact, the opposite because they will understand what it is for. They know it is not a nerf toy that they could go around shooting at people and it won't harm them, they understand this is a action that could kill someone. Did you know 22 rounds are the most deadly because they bound around in the body, they just don't go through the body. Matter of fact, getting hit by a higher caliber round, you are more likely to live than being shot with a 22 rifle or pistol.

There is nothing wrong with having a gun, as long as anybody unstable or otherwise unable to to securely handle a weapon cannot easily access it.

Reason most people don't properly secure their weapons is because they were not educated and taught otherwise, they are going off common sense which sometimes is flawed.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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No... they should be responsible and understand their children is a danger to himself or others. When they come to that conclusion, they should place their guns in guns safes or out of reach of them. Having an a child who is mental unstable shouldn't infringe on their right to own a gun. Even if the parents don't have a gun, they could get a gun from somewhere else. Now that just throws your logic out the window that taking guns away from parents who have a child with mental problems will stop this problem. It is much more complex than you think. Education and Help for Mental Unstable people will go along way, a step in the right direction.

ofcourse they should, but we know it does not work that way all the time, hence the parents who get killed by their own children.

As for the rest, i have just basically answered that in the above post, but as for getting the guns from elsewhere....of course they can, but it does not help when the parents have made it easier for them by having them in the house.

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I dont know about you but Im raising my child to be dangerous and smart. Look at this ****ed up country. Hes gonna know how to protect himself from the idiocy that rules it.

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ofcourse they should, but we know it does not work that way all the time, hence the parents who get killed by their own children.

As for the rest, i have just basically answered that in the above post, but as for getting the guns from elsewhere....of course they can, but it does not help when the parents have made it easier for them by having them in the house.

I got a question for you then, what happens if all guns in the United States is taken away from home owners who are responsible and lawful citizens? What then? We become much more vulnerable to break ins, murders, rapes, and homicides because criminals will get their guns one way or another, rather you like it or not. Most people own guns to protect their family from these types of criminals. There is nothing there to deter them, there is nothing there to stop them from committing these types of crimes. Death toll will be much larger than it is today. People are less likely to be killed by an gun than it is likely be killed in a car crash. Those who advocate guns to be taken away will change their minds real quick when the bullets start flying.

I dont know about you but Im raising my child to be dangerous and smart. Look at this ****ed up country. Hes gonna know how to protect himself from the idiocy that rules it.

Teaching your child how to proper handle and understand a gun is one thing, but to actively try to make them into a deadly person is another thing. It is his or her choice how to use his knowledge, rather he wants to be a person who to be feared or a person who can be trusted to protect his family and others. Which one would you be proud of?

Edited by Uncle Sam
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I'd actually like to hear the actual motive behind it before I complain about somebody getting shot. Seriously this could be a case of a kid who got bullied, snapped and he killed the ones who were causing him problems, it could be anything. When you get locked in to a position where you think you have no choice or are not getting the right kind of help, bad things generally happen.

The reasons behind an action is very important.

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I'd actually like to hear the actual motive behind it before I complain about somebody getting shot. Seriously this could be a case of a kid who got bullied, snapped and he killed the ones who were causing him problems, it could be anything. When you get locked in to a position where you think you have no choice or are not getting the right kind of help, bad things generally happen.

The reasons behind an action is very important.

I would say determining how the kid got the gun and holding the gun owner responsible is much more important.

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I'd actually like to hear the actual motive behind it before I complain about somebody getting shot. Seriously this could be a case of a kid who got bullied, snapped and he killed the ones who were causing him problems, it could be anything. When you get locked in to a position where you think you have no choice or are not getting the right kind of help, bad things generally happen.

The reasons behind an action is very important.

That is true, if it is bullying that caused him to do this, then we need to focus on stemming bullying in schools.

I would say determining how the kid got the gun and holding the gun owner responsible is much more important.

This is the first time I heard of someone saying the gun owner who neglected to place his or her guns in the safe should be held responsible. Ah... finally some common sense in the thread. They should be held accountable for the actions of their children. Once the ownership is transferred or stolen, the gun owner shouldn't be liable for what the gun was used for.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Teaching children about guns isn't going to make them go on a rampage and shot everyone up, matter of fact, the opposite because they will understand what it is for. They know it is not a nerf toy that they could go around shooting at people and it won't harm them, they understand this is a action that could kill someone. Did you know 22 rounds are the most deadly because they bound around in the body, they just don't go through the body. Matter of fact, getting hit by a higher caliber round, you are more likely to live than being shot with a 22 rifle or pistol.

I never said teaching them would make them go on a rampage, not every child out there is unstable.

As for the opposite, no, if the child is unstable then knowing they can gain access to guns could only make them worse, as you pointed out before, it is the parents responsibility to know if their child is a danger or not, and this is quite clearly not always the case.

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I never said teaching them would make them go on a rampage, not every child out there is unstable.

As for the opposite, no, if the child is unstable then knowing they can gain access to guns could only make them worse, as you pointed out before, it is the parents responsibility to know if their child is a danger or not, and this is quite clearly not always the case.

How can you know if someone is unstable or not? Some of them hide it pretty well... that is the big main question. Since we stop placing people in mental homes or getting help for people who have mental problems, things have spiraled out of control. I sometimes think that the government actually planned for this when they started shutting down mental institutions and stop giving help for people who is mentally unstable. I am not a conspiracy nut, but it is starting to feel like this. The government and politicians are capitalizing on this big time, pushing for gun control harder than they ever pushed for before.

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There is no such thing as paradise on Earth, people really need to get their heads out of their ass and make due with what we got. His idea for paradise is hell for others.

There are places like that... matter of fact, throughout history those places have the highest murder rates and death tolls. Hitler once said, to defeat a nation is to disarm the nation. Well something along those lines... he disarmed everyone and it made it easy for placing them place undesirables in concentration camps or killing them in gas chambers. If Europe's army is defeated, what is going to stop another nation from going in and killing off all the Europeans? :no:

So Ireland has the highest rate of murders ?

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it is the parents responsibility to know if their child is a danger or not

Theres alot of apathetic 2-3 job working single parents out there that may not know there children as well as they should. Ill call it a societal issue and not blame the parent for circumstances out of there control. It can be very tough to keep a roof over there heads and feed them. Unless we want to give every single parent full social benefits this wont change.

Edited by AsteroidX

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http://www.guardian....oting-five-dead

I am willing to bet that this teen was on anti depressent medication as well..

Can you be so sure that you are not reversing cause and effect? Yes, a high number of these types of shooters are on anti-depressants and anti-psychotic meds, but is the underlying problem the fact that these medications have helped cause such mental breakdowns (it may well be), or is it simply down to the fact that they are depressed and psychotic in the first place? Are these horrific episodes caused by the medical condition or caused, at least in some way, by the given treatment? Would they have carried out their acts had they not be medicated, or would a lack of medication have hastened or worsened their attacks? It is impossible at this moment in time to claim definitively one way or the other. Further tests and studies are needed - and on a very large scale.

For me it would first be the mental illness that contributed to their psychoses, but I am not naive enough to think that some of the mass produced medical products could have played a fairly substantial part. I believe that some medications can make psychoses worse, for sure, but this would have to be investigated on an individual basis.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on either bandwagon.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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So Ireland has the highest rate of murders ?

I meant to say most... caught me with a brain fart, don't know why we can't correct our comments after someone respond to them.

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