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Professor Buzzkill

Another shooting involving AR-15 and teenager

105 posts in this topic

I got a question for you then, what happens if all guns in the United States is taken away from home owners who are responsible and lawful citizens? What then? We become much more vulnerable to break ins, murders, rapes, and homicides because criminals will get their guns one way or another, rather you like it or not. Most people own guns to protect their family from these types of criminals. There is nothing there to deter them, there is nothing there to stop them from committing these types of crimes. Death toll will be much larger than it is today. People are less likely to be killed by an gun than it is likely be killed in a car crash. Those who advocate guns to be taken away will change their minds real quick when the bullets start flying.

This has been covered on another thread and I have already said, if i lived in an area in the States where guns were the norm, then yes, i would have one too. I have also pointed out that here in England we do not have guns, its has not contributed to everyone being burgled, raped or killed. But you live in America and it has gone way past that "no guns" stage.

But my point on this thread is not for every parent in the States to not own a gun, it is for every parent to be responsible enough to recognise the danger signs before having one in the house were there is an unstable child living. teaching that child on how to use the gun will not only get to know how to shoot, but also he will know there is a gun somewhere in the house, and chances are, when he finally cracks, he will do every thing in his power to get it.

Thankfully not every child is like this, so many parents are not in that position, but any child who is under some psychiatric help or medication, then the question should be asked to the parents, do they own a gun. This may not only save their lives, but many others.

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How can you know if someone is unstable or not? Some of them hide it pretty well... that is the big main question. Since we stop placing people in mental homes or getting help for people who have mental problems, things have spiraled out of control. I sometimes think that the government actually planned for this when they started shutting down mental institutions and stop giving help for people who is mentally unstable. I am not a conspiracy nut, but it is starting to feel like this. The government and politicians are capitalizing on this big time, pushing for gun control harder than they ever pushed for before.

I can`t but the parents may well do. Adam Lanza`s mother did, and depending on how this story turns out, if the 2 adults were his parents, then we may see if there was some known instability with this teenager too.

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I meant to say most... caught me with a brain fart, don't know why we can't correct our comments after someone respond to them.

It happens from time to time.

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I can`t but the parents may well do. Adam Lanza`s mother did, and depending on how this story turns out, if the 2 adults were his parents, then we may see if there was some known instability with this teenager too.

Education about guns and mental issues, plus mental help for them is definitely going to help in the long run. Seriously Education about these issues will go along way....

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I would say determining how the kid got the gun and holding the gun owner responsible is much more important.

Imagine if somebody stole your car and ran somebody over and you got blamed for it while you are at work. Should you get charged with manslaughter or just negligence. Even though you couldn't of done anything to stop it?

A safe isn't a sure fire way to keep somebody out. Most gun safes and cabinets are pretty damn easy to unlock. (Do a search opening gun safes with plastic straw). Most people do not check how easy it is to break in to their own things. I suggest lawmakers put regulations on selling safe's that you know work.

Edited by Jinxdom

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A safe isn't a sure fire way to keep somebody out. Most gun safes and cabinets are pretty damn easy to unlock. (Do a search opening gun safes with plastic straw). Most people do not check how easy it is to break in to their own things. I suggest lawmakers start there at the manufacturers.

If a safe is easy to unlock then it hardly is a safe, right? And a simple safe with a simple Lagard key (double barbed) is not easy to pick... in fact most locksmiths have to drill it out. A job that takes hours if the safe is worth its money.

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Well after reading some of the comments on these gun control threads american enthusiasm for killing each other knows no bounds. As i've said before, as long as americans would rather their children are shot to pieces than have their guns confiscated then this will just continue. As long as you're all happy with that, carry on.

Man that is classic. The only 2 options are gun confiscation or having our children "shot to pieces" You sir are an idiot.

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Can you be so sure that you are not reversing cause and effect? Yes, a high number of these types of shooters are on anti-depressants and anti-psychotic meds, but is the underlying problem the fact that these medications have helped cause such mental breakdowns (it may well be), or is it simply down to the fact that they are depressed and psychotic in the first place? Are these horrific episodes caused by the medical condition or caused, at least in some way, by the given treatment? Would they have carried out their acts had they not be medicated, or would a lack of medication have hastened or worsened their attacks? It is impossible at this moment in time to claim definitively one way or the other. Further tests and studies are needed - and on a very large scale.

For me it would first be the mental illness that contributed to their psychoses, but I am not naive enough to think that some of the mass produced medical products could have played a fairly substantial part. I believe that some medications can make psychoses worse, for sure, but this would have to be investigated on an individual basis.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on either bandwagon.

I think you have a point, but...

*snip*

After re watching this documentary i think its safe to assume the drugs help to disconnect kids from emotions/others/themselves and consequences of their actions. It seems to be an "easy option" (as admitted by one of the Doctors in the documentary) that parents are more willing to take rather than traditional behaviour modification techniques.

Edited by Saru
Video removed due to copyright
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Imagine if somebody stole your car and ran somebody over and you got blamed for it while you are at work. Should you get charged with manslaughter or just negligence. Even though you couldn't of done anything to stop it?

A safe isn't a sure fire way to keep somebody out. Most gun safes and cabinets are pretty damn easy to unlock. (Do a search opening gun safes with plastic straw). Most people do not check how easy it is to break in to their own things. I suggest lawmakers put regulations on selling safe's that you know work.

Could you break into a safe? It seems a bit of a sweeping statement to say safe's aren't secure. Maybe some are not, for a cat burglar, but for your average Joe?

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If a safe is easy to unlock then it hardly is a safe, right? And a simple safe with a simple Lagard key (double barbed) is not easy to pick... in fact most locksmiths have to drill it out. A job that takes hours if the safe is worth its money.

I just realised he was referring to a 'gun safe'. Apparently they are easier to break into. Something to do with their easy access for the owner in a time of crisis.

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I think you have a point, but...

After re watching this documentary i think its safe to assume the drugs help to disconnect kids from emotions/others/themselves and consequences of their actions. It seems to be an "easy option" (as admitted by one of the Doctors in the documentary) that parents are more willing to take rather than traditional behaviour modification techniques.

I also think your points are valid, without a doubt. Still, it would have to be judged on an individual basis, and there is also the view that their suppressed emotions for a time may be a good thing. It may make them less likely to act due to anger or any other emotion.

I still believe that we don't know enough about the subject to judge it definitively one way or another. Me, you, or the medical professionals.

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The pharm companies have been pushing these drugs on kids through the schools, and through counclers. There are so many people on these drugs for little to no reason at all. Suicide among these kids, now begining to enter adulthood is a epidemic. I have to confirm this, but I heard the other day that suicide is now the number 1 cause of death in America.

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Big Pharm is more or as much culpable for these shootings as the killers themselves. They know there product is capable of these type of incidents yet they continue to sell it to our children it more then crack dealers sell crack to kids.

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Well after reading some of the comments on these gun control threads american enthusiasm for killing each other knows no bounds. As i've said before, as long as americans would rather their children are shot to pieces than have their guns confiscated then this will just continue. As long as you're all happy with that, carry on.

Too bad gun confiscation is a sham and the warning of a police state.

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I got a question for you then, what happens if all guns in the United States is taken away from home owners who are responsible and lawful citizens? What then? We become much more vulnerable to break ins, murders, rapes, and homicides because criminals will get their guns one way or another, rather you like it or not. Most people own guns to protect their family from these types of criminals. There is nothing there to deter them, there is nothing there to stop them from committing these types of crimes. Death toll will be much larger than it is today. People are less likely to be killed by an gun than it is likely be killed in a car crash. Those who advocate guns to be taken away will change their minds real quick when the bullets start flying.

Teaching your child how to proper handle and understand a gun is one thing, but to actively try to make them into a deadly person is another thing. It is his or her choice how to use his knowledge, rather he wants to be a person who to be feared or a person who can be trusted to protect his family and others. Which one would you be proud of?

This is the concept that made me finally stop trying to explain the gun ownership reasoning to non - American citizens. It's obvious that they either do not understand how things are here OR they really don't care whether we are jeopardizing our safety. The guns do not threaten them in any way, yet they find fault with people an ocean away for how they manage their own lives and business. Singularly odd way to behave imo. It's none of my business how a Canadian or a Briton live their lives day to day. I wouldn't dream of castigating them for their choices - even if I considered those choices to be self destructive. Freedom, you know? It's what we have in common. Americans have always had the right to possess firearms. We conquered a wild country with them and built one of the most prosperous nations in the history of the world - and now, imo, liberal ideologies and hand wringing and lack of education about firearms is leading us to consider throwing away our right to self protection from tyrannical government. I'm sorry that 20 children died at the hands of a crazy person in Connecticut. I'm even more sorry that 55 MILLION children have been denied access to a life due to abortion. But taking away my right when I did nothing to cause their deaths is wrong and I won't accept it.
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The pharm companies have been pushing these drugs on kids through the schools, and through counclers. There are so many people on these drugs for little to no reason at all. Suicide among these kids, now begining to enter adulthood is a epidemic. I have to confirm this, but I heard the other day that suicide is now the number 1 cause of death in America.

But then suicide was already at an 'epidemic' amongst the depressed, wasn't it? How can you say for certain that the depression itself is not the main cause? None of us really can in my opinion.

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see below

Edited by watoom

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Too bad gun confiscation is a sham and the warning of a police state.

This is the concept that made me finally stop trying to explain the gun ownership reasoning to non - American citizens. It's obvious that they either do not understand how things are here OR they really don't care whether we are jeopardizing our safety. The guns do not threaten them in any way, yet they find fault with people an ocean away for how they manage their own lives and business. Singularly odd way to behave imo. It's none of my business how a Canadian or a Briton live their lives day to day. I wouldn't dream of castigating them for their choices - even if I considered those choices to be self destructive. Freedom, you know? It's what we have in common. Americans have always had the right to possess firearms. We conquered a wild country with them and built one of the most prosperous nations in the history of the world - and now, imo, liberal ideologies and hand wringing and lack of education about firearms is leading us to consider throwing away our right to self protection from tyrannical government. I'm sorry that 20 children died at the hands of a crazy person in Connecticut. I'm even more sorry that 55 MILLION children have been denied access to a life due to abortion. But taking away my right when I did nothing to cause their deaths is wrong and I won't accept it.

There is so much wrong with this:

America in the current economic climate != prosperous.

Conquered a wild country = slaughtering the native inhabitants

Tyrannical government - slightly paranoid?

Abortion - people have a right to decide.

and then the overall theme of the post of not telling people how to live their lives is a bit steep coming from an American, how many countries are the US trying to dictate how they should live their lives??

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We can fantasize all day long over this issue. It's not going away. And it will only get worse the more the GOV intervenes.

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There is so much wrong with this:

America in the current economic climate != prosperous.

Conquered a wild country = slaughtering the native inhabitants

Tyrannical government - slightly paranoid?

Abortion - people have a right to decide.

and then the overall theme of the post of not telling people how to live their lives is a bit steep coming from an American, how many countries are the US trying to dictate how they should live their lives??

Thanks for the remark.

The logical answer is Obama would call in the UN, which was also created with the purpose of not having a military.

The Department of Homeland Security is also armed to the teeth.

Would this happen? I don't know. I can't say. You are right, America's economic climate has stagnated.

But when America was founded to be anti-tyrannical and to be a Republic where all are represented, it is sort of absurd to shudder at the idea of tyranny and regard it as folly. Common sense and history prove other wise. We have to humble ourselves and examine reality. Our rights are slowly being depleted and we exist in a police state that has a militarized police force, surveillance, the NSA wiretapping everyone, bugged buses in California, the NDAA, H.R. 347 that negates our First Amendment, a senseless perpetual war - aka "The War on Terror"; and a "War on Drugs" to boot. If anything, cancelling both the wars would be financially responsible, considering we have a retarded amount of debt that is continually collected at a rapid rate..

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Before I could own a gun and acquire a hunting license when I was a youth back in the 70's, Kids had to take a hunter safety class.

A local gun shop owner and a game warden taught the class the fundamentals of gun safety and even took us out in the country

to shoot clay targets. I remember the motto they taught us. "Know And Respect The Gun". I don't know if they still teach youth today

on Gun Safety but if they don't then they should start.

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we need to make it mandatory to see if potential gun owners have both the ability and the character to not to pose a threat with their guns.

Potential gun owners? You mean the legal upstanding people who can buy guns in the future under today's laws? That's the problem now?

Okay then, how are you gonna "see"? Are you going to march down to your city hall and ask to speak to your Mayor? Are you going to make telephone calls to high minded intellectuals in your community who can parse together the most intricate details of such a plan? Or are you going to lay down and agree with whatever Obama comes up with, which will be a load of hay having nothing to do with what you just said "we need". Let's start with the most basic of all questions. Who's going to pay for this new initiative and who's going to administer it?

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Well, this thread is no longer about the shootings. I'll have cops in and out of here today, I'll see if they know something about it that the news hasn't reported.

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Here's the latest:

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - Shock and disbelief continue to shake the city of Albuquerque in the wake of a horrific shooting that left a well known chaplain, his wife and their three young children dead. Officials say the carnage was at the hands of the 15-year-old son.

Nehemiah Griego, 15 , is behind bars after deputies say he shot and killed his parents and three siblings inside the family home Saturday night. Griego told deputies that at the time of the killings he had been having homicidal and suicidal thoughts along with anger problems and had been upset with his mother.

Investigators say after the killings he told someone at his church that his family was dead. He allegedly offered up several stories before finally confessing to shooting his mother, Sara Griego and young siblings, Jael, Angelina and Zephania. The teen said he waiting for his dad, Greg Griego , to come home from work hours later and then fatally shot him.

On Sunday Sheriff Dan Houston said he wanted more time before sharing out more details on the crime. There will be a press conference held Tuesday at 10 a.m. where more information is expected to be released.

Edited by Sweetpumper

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