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Taun

Questions For Younger Members

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i really dont think so man, comparing to what? generation x i assume.

things have gotten alot cheerier in my opinion since early 2000s and the emo outbreak

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A suicide is a symptom of depression, unfortunately one that is fatal.

I don't know if depression is more common now than in the past, but it must be viewed as a sort of malfunction, not particularly caused by external factors, but often triggered by them. It is also something that typically comes and goes, so that for a period the person is depressed and may attempt suicide, while at other times the whole thing seems incomprehensible to them. One must somehow first get the suicidal person to realize that these feelings will pass.

We need to be sensitive to signs of depression and potential suicide, although, except in ourselves, when we have recognized the signs in someone else, it is damn hard to know what to do. Just trying to encourage the depressed person, and pointing out the illogicality of the gloom, rarely works and can even make it worse.

Doctors have an armory of medicines that usually but not always help, but it can be very hard to get a depressed person to open up enough to a doctor (or even to see one about it) as they are not aware and don't see things as an objective outsider sees them. A variety of schools of counseling, known generally as "talk therapy" have also been shown in studies to be helpful, provided the counselor knows what he or she is doing.

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A lot of really good comments and insights from you guys thanks!...

I do wonder if a large part of the problem (if it is indeed a real problem) is that parents spend less time with their kids now than in past generations... For example: in my childhood, it was uncommon for both parents to work full time... "Latch key kids" probably existed, but were never heard of... My dad was a soldier, and often had extended periods when he would be away (a couple weeks to a month at a time was not unheard of) but when he wasn't there, mom was... When mom was away - for whatever reason, dad was home... until we three older kids were in our upper teens and could be relied on to "be in charge" for a while... (we never lived near enough to my many aunts and uncles or my grandparents to have them "look in on us")...

Divorces are also ALOT more common today than at any other time in modern history... many more single parents are raising kids today and that has to affect things as well... If a couple kids are a hand full for a pair of parents, how can they not be more of a challenge for a single one?...

Families were much more likely to do things together as a family, family game nights, shared tv movie watching (this was well before DVD's existed and even VCRs were extremely uncommon - cable television wasn't even thought of out side of development labs...)

My family (seven kids! and my parents) had one evening a week when we would all do something together at home - monopoly, story telling, etc, and (usually) one night a month when we would all bundle up in the car and go see a movie - but we always did it together... I don't see a lot of that today - some yes, but not to the extent of my past experiences... So the youth are "alone" a lot more today (IMO), that leaves a lot more opportunity to have bad experiences that they may not be capable of handling by themselves...

So I think that we older generations are just as culpable for any problems that might exist as the younger generation may be...

Just my observations - I could be totally off base here...

Edited by Taun
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Disconnection from the family as Tuan mentioned earlier is, I believe, a great factor. The world is really a sad state of affairs when you look at it from a big perspective. People just have their entire outlook on life clouded by insignificant things. I blame a lot of this on materialism. People put too much value and time into materialstic objects and especially how others perceive them.

They slot themselves into different "groups" and are expected to conform to it. No one can truly be themselves and as a result of that, can't be happy. After all the media and such are telling everyone how to look/act/etc. Essentially playing on the insecurities of people in order to achieve their intended goal, whatever that may be.

I also believe instant gratification plays a big role in this too. For example, uploading a picture to get "likes" in order to get attention, basically being used as a substitute to gain self confidence. Unfortunately this doesn't keep an everlasting effect and requires more and more of the same thing, almost like a drug to the person. Not good for their psyche at all you can imagine. Not to mention the ease of access to a vast array on information on the internet giving a response to stimulus instantly. Anything your groceries to a new car right at your finger tips. Everything in our lives is so readily available.

I remember clubbing was usually done by 21+ year olds, then the 18+ year olds, now... It seems 12 year olds are game. This environment of drinking alcohol, taking drugs and undergoing intimate and sexual contact with others is definitely not something to be encouraged at such an age.

An interesting anecdote... A girl I know, she told me when she spoke to her father about her life he was all uninterested, he spends a lot of time working to provide for the family. Her relationship with her mother is a shaky one, they have had fights and such. She says her mother loves her brother more than her. Interestingly enough, she went underage clubbing a lot, she is also incredibly insecure, wants to be famous, values money a lot more than anyone should, was actually close to some significantly older men in her lifetime (she does live in a part of the world where this is considered a bit more normal however), she's depressed and possibly bipolar, cares what people think about her too much, buys into the marketing and media bs, basically everything I had outlined before. Bottom line is, she's more than often not happy.

My relationship with her is complicated, I haven't seen her for over a year. She always had to go out looking perfect as she said it. One of the occasions I took a photo for her, she wasnt happy with it until about another 5 snaps of her each time she would come up to the camera, zoom right into her face and checking everything was "perfect" until she was satisfied. It's sad.

She is an example of a lot of what is wrong with our youth today. Mainly the underlying problems. I can't do much to help her now, but really it is something people have to learn themselves. Once this whole situation we are in comes to a point where something can be done, I really hope to try and show her the way. If we can take out this twisted perception of reality some youth have of it today like the one I mentioned. I believe a huge difference can be made and have an overall better world for everyone, whether you think it won't make a difference to you or not, it will.

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All families have troubles, and almost all kids have periods of serious disaffection from their parents. Each generation swears it will not make the mistakes their parents made, so, instead, they end up making the mistakes their grandparents made on their parents.

Therefore when this happens to oneself, don't make too much of it; its fairly normal and may even be part of evolution's way of kicking us out of the nest. One thing -- don't try to force a resolution. Let some time pass.

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Unfortunately our generation pays a lot of heed to menial things. They are ready to end their lives at the age of 20, just because their gf/bf left them. They've become over sensitive and they think taking their life is the best way to go. The generation is more depressed, hopeless and pessimistic than prior generations because of the 'supposed' generation gap. We think our line of thought doesn't match our parents, so instead of talking it out with them we bottle everything up and start holding grudges, giving way to pessimism and depression. Most of the people who commit suicide and leave a suicide note always say 'No one understands me', which imho is ridiculous, maybe they didn't try hard to make someone understand. Oh and we also associate ourselves with the 'tragic celebrities', we take inspiration from Cobain, Winehouse and the likes... But that said, there are many many people in our generation who look at the brighter side of life.

What the younger generation need to understand, is the way they feel is not new, its the things you have around you which are. suicide is not new, bottling up feelings and the words "no one understands" are by no means new either.

I think today some parents have relied on the computers to entertain their children instead of doing it themselves and today the emphasis of responsibility is not just down to the parents anymore because of social services interventions. For some reason when things go wrong, the parents blame it on anything or anyone else out there instead of looking at what they did or rather did not do for their own child.

take the gun situation for instance, the government are blaming the society, society is blaming the government and the parents are blaming the other gun owners.

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All families have troubles, and almost all kids have periods of serious disaffection from their parents. Each generation swears it will not make the mistakes their parents made, so, instead, they end up making the mistakes their grandparents made on their parents.

Therefore when this happens to oneself, don't make too much of it; its fairly normal and may even be part of evolution's way of kicking us out of the nest. One thing -- don't try to force a resolution. Let some time pass.

Of course you have the rebellious teenager and the classic problems most experience. But we live in a world where it generally requires two parents to work. This is not a normal way of human social and mental development, where we see from animals, at least one cares for the young while the other is out. And of course, time is an absolute necessity.

Edited by Orcseeker

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What the younger generation need to understand, is the way they feel is not new, its the things you have around you which are. suicide is not new, bottling up feelings and the words "no one understands" are by no means new either.

I think today some parents have relied on the computers to entertain their children instead of doing it themselves and today the emphasis of responsibility is not just down to the parents anymore because of social services interventions. For some reason when things go wrong, the parents blame it on anything or anyone else out there instead of looking at what they did or rather did not do for their own child.

take the gun situation for instance, the government are blaming the society, society is blaming the government and the parents are blaming the other gun owners.

Of course its not new. But some of the reasons for it are ridiculous. One schoolkid here committed suicide because his parents didn't have the money to send him on a school trip. What I don't like is that a lot of us have given up on their lives when they're in their 20s and they have a long life ahead. One of my friends is hell bent on dying and she, in no way, is ready to believe that life can better for her and she's just 21.

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Of course its not new. But some of the reasons for it are ridiculous. One schoolkid here committed suicide because his parents didn't have the money to send him on a school trip. What I don't like is that a lot of us have given up on their lives when they're in their 20s and they have a long life ahead. One of my friends is hell bent on dying and she, in no way, is ready to believe that life can better for her and she's just 21.

here is an interesting article:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

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I've been really enjoying following the dialogue. Great thread, Taun! (And wow, you're 1 of 7?...it's really isn't the quantity of time, but the quality, right?! :w00t: )

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I've been really enjoying following the dialogue. Great thread, Taun! (And wow, you're 1 of 7?...it's really isn't the quantity of time, but the quality, right?! :w00t: )

I didn't have it so bad... I was the 3rd child and my only brother is the 7th - 15 years between us - so i always got a room to myself and new toys/new clothes - my sisters got new toys but often hand me down clothes and shared rooms... But they love me anyway (most of the time)...

:tsu:

Seriously, though it seems like a lot now - it didn't then... and I can't imagine growing up without any of them...(though at times I would liked to have tried!)

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I think the family environment also plays a big role. 40 years ago, it was normal for the husband to work and the wife at home taking care of the family. (I'm not saying that women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen-merely pointing out the difference). Children received the attention they needed, ate healthy prepared meals (no junk food - as the parent at home had the time to cook a wholesome meal). These days, both parents need to work to make ends meet. Young people come home from school to empty homes, no healthy meals, and no one to help with homework or just listen to how their day was. By the time the parents get home, it is just a madhouse getting everything done for the next day and everybody is exhausted. There is no longer time to sit together and enjoy a meal. Evenings are spent in front of the tv - again no family time. (I'm also very guilty of this). I read somewhere that the average parent these days spend less than 5 minutes with their child a day. Not to mention the kids living in divorced homes. The number of marriages ending in divorce is alarming. This also contributes to our youth feeling unsure and depressed. I don't think there was such a high divorce rate 20-30 years ago?

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We tend to mitigate this problem by having grandma around, and grandpa too if he survived the war and the drinking (a large segment of the male population in those age ranges are alcoholics or nearly so). It is also mitigated by having smaller families, and there is often an unmarried sister of one of the parents who can move in and help.

Except where the family has a business done out of the home, I don't think there is any going back to women staying in the house. They are not needed there with modern conveniences, so they naturally go outside to supplement and insure family income and to give their own lives more definition.

So children should be provided places to go if there is no one home -- for the youngest that is care centers; for older children longer school hours. (There is a known correlation between the number of hours a kid spends in school and the quality of the education he or she gets). Special arrangements for mothers with infants are now common at many workplaces and encouraged by the government.

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I think the family environment also plays a big role. 40 years ago, it was normal for the husband to work and the wife at home taking care of the family. (I'm not saying that women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen-merely pointing out the difference). Children received the attention they needed, ate healthy prepared meals (no junk food - as the parent at home had the time to cook a wholesome meal). These days, both parents need to work to make ends meet. Young people come home from school to empty homes, no healthy meals, and no one to help with homework or just listen to how their day was. By the time the parents get home, it is just a madhouse getting everything done for the next day and everybody is exhausted. There is no longer time to sit together and enjoy a meal. Evenings are spent in front of the tv - again no family time. (I'm also very guilty of this). I read somewhere that the average parent these days spend less than 5 minutes with their child a day. Not to mention the kids living in divorced homes. The number of marriages ending in divorce is alarming. This also contributes to our youth feeling unsure and depressed. I don't think there was such a high divorce rate 20-30 years ago?

I think the main difference in Divorces between today and when I was a youngun is four fold:

1. Its much more socially acceptable today than it was in the 50's/early 60's... Single parents in TV shows back then were widows/widowers, as it was more socially acceptable than divorce (weird huh?)... Having a single parent home was just considered "not quite right"...

2. Divorces were actually much harder to get back then - often not granted outside of a court hearing, and expensive... Also the causes for divorce were very plainly set out, with infidelity being probably the main one... It was very hard to get a divorce for the sole reason of "we just don't like each other any more" - this led to the infamous "mental cruelty" clause which could be anything from true mental torture, to simply coming home late from work too often...

3. The courts back then were not as hard on parents that 'skip out' on their kids... It was rare for a woman to ever have to pay child support - even if she lost custody of the kids and earned more money, and forcing a dead beat dad to pay his child support was spotty at best...

4. Back then contested ownership of property in a divorce almost always went to the wife (who almost always got custody of the kids - which was a switch from the very early 1900's when women were pretty much frozen out completely), and Alimony was a much feared and often brutal burden (not to the rich as much as to the middle class divorcees) On the bright side alimony has pretty much died a horrible death (as it should)...

My thoughts on divorce? Divorce should be an extreme last action of a marriage... In cases of physical abuse and other true horror stories - absolutely no doubt divorce (and jail time for the abuser) is the way to go, but for just two people who 'get bored with each other'... they should exhaust all other forms of 'marriage maintenance' possible first...

Edited by Taun
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im 18. I dont think our generation is any darker then others. Humans remain the same most of the time. Everyone always thinks its the end of the world not just us.

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But why is my generation committing suicides at a rate so high some have called it a suicide epidemic? Why are we more depressed, more hopeless, and more pessimistic than prior generations? Can anyone answer these questions?

It's always a good idea to answer a "why" question without the "why" first.

Why Are we more depressed? Why Are we more pessimistic?

I'm not convinced we are, but I think these issues could be gaining more exposure than at most other points in history.

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It's always a good idea to answer a "why" question without the "why" first.

Why Are we more depressed? Why Are we more pessimistic?

I'm not convinced we are, but I think these issues could be gaining more exposure than at most other points in history.

That's a good way of dealing with such arguments raptor. I think the way society thinks and operates is a big deal and I believe it to be good the exposure it is getting. The world is a much different place than it used to be, countless more factors are in place and things are a lot more complicated in regards to cause and effect.

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- Do you feel that this generation of youth (ages 16-25 ish) is darker, than others in the recent past or not?

Yes.

- If so - why?

Because our generation no longer has one particular set-in "style." I hear it from my 56 year old mother all the time. "What's the 'in' style now?" I always end up explaining to her that there are multiple social groups with multiple different clothing styles, music styles, entertainment styles, everything basically.

Back in the era you're speaking of and before, most things were either segregated or seriously looked down upon as a dangerous and rare counterculture. There was no "Goth" there was no Rock music or internet or videogames, there wasn't the 'gangsters' or rap, there was no homosexuality, heck for a time there wasn't even black people in the same schools. Almost everything for teens and young adults of that era was the popular music of the time, the popular clothing of the time, Christianity was practically integrated in the government despite what they say, and everyone aspired to get a car at 16 and hang out with friends at a local hang out spots. Not to mention during the 60's there was the revolution era, where many people were fighting for some sort of cause. Now, the cause is absolute equality for everyone and acceptance of just about anything. That doesn't account for the lack of personal face to face communication, since the majority of my generation communicates most of the time through texts, emails, and facebook posts.

The point I'm getting at is that what would be considered the "dangerous and rare counterculture" back in the day, is no longer considered dangerous and it is far from rare. In fact it's quite common and in many ways considered the norm.

I'm 19 and I understand what you're getting at and agree with you actually, that the majority of my generation has gotten darker. I can walk through a book store and see all sorts of brightly colored books here and there, and then go to the teen section and everything is black cover, gothic lettering, and vampires and werewolves. I'm not saying that the generations before us were saints, I'm just saying that a much more impersonal anything goes kinda apathetical atmosphere as certainly appeared to have presented itself among the teens and young adults of my generation.

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Being in my fifties i don't think there is as much of a difference as it seems, it is my belief that the information age abilities of todays world is what makes it seem so however.

I grew up poor 1 pair of shoes a year and all my clothes except those shoes were hand madeby family until i was 15, in Jr High and High school I was beaten and bullied and snarled at by every kid in the school ( or at least that is how it seemed) i had to start injuring people just to be left alone. the day i threw a kid off the third floor because he walked up behind me and slapped the back of my head for being in his way was the day people started leaving me alone.

I watched the towers get hit live as well and i just shrugged, my first comment was " hey what movie is that it looks real" i won't mention my second comment as it is dark enough that i might get in trouble.

I have suffered from depression since i was ten ( as mentioned above I'm in my 50s now.) the biggest difference between my childhood and the kids today is 1) my generation was not allowed to talk about it or do something about it because it might hurt other family members, 'NEVER Hurt other members of the family' and 2) I didn't have information age connections to turn to and i didn't have video games to withdraw into. or facebook to put my thoughts or feeling on.

and i haven't hardly even begun to mention my Encounters with my dark side.

Like tuan mentioned, back then if i liked a book my eyes would see the words but my mind would make them into a real read time movie, usually with someone i knew as a main character, granted this was back when i could read a 200 page paper back in two to three hours. I have to wonder if that is because of the Lack of information age technology as i no longer have that ability.

i believe it is simply more out in the open than ever before and we hear about the "darkness" More because of all the information age advancements we have created. Everybody has a dark side whether or not they want to admit it, the older generations kept it hidden, it wasn't talked about and it wasn't acted on.

I could be wrong however

Edited by mysticwerewolf
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I take my Prozac every day; I think it should be added to the water. :clap:

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I didn't have it so bad... I was the 3rd child and my only brother is the 7th - 15 years between us - so i always got a room to myself and new toys/new clothes - my sisters got new toys but often hand me down clothes and shared rooms... But they love me anyway (most of the time)...

:tsu:

Seriously, though it seems like a lot now - it didn't then... and I can't imagine growing up without any of them...(though at times I would liked to have tried!)

You know what? That's not what I meant, but it's my fault.

Annnnneeeway...

That's an interesting birth order in your family. I was the baby, and my closest sibling was 11 (brother) when I was born, so I think I often felt much more like an only child.

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Im 25 and I have my dark days as well as my positive days, I also dont understand this whole Facebook sensation and I dont have a profile on Facebook, Its like anyone that needs to get a hold of me either has my cell number and if they dont they know how to get it. I dont understand why people would want to put themselves out there for the world to see, thats just not me. Im reclusive but not to the point that it affects my daily life. But I was raised up with manners and to always show respect to my elders.

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