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ExpandMyMind

Bali drugs: Death sentence for Briton

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A 56-year-old British grandmother has been sentenced to death by firing squad in Indonesia for drug trafficking.

Lindsay Sandiford was arrested at Bali's airport in May last year after 4.8kg (10.6lb) of cocaine was found in the lining of her suitcase during a routine customs check.

Sandiford, whose last UK address was in Gloucestershire, said she was coerced into bringing the drugs to the island.

Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire has condemned the sentence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21137649

Barbaric. I mean if a country has tough drugs laws, that's their business, but the death penalty? By firing squad? Though with it being Indonesia, this is hardly surprising considering their numerous acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Should have given her 15 years - life. I mean it was only 5kg - they go through more than that on a Friday night in Glasgow.

I hope the Foreign Office fight for her, idiot that she is.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Should have given her 15 years - life. I mean it was only 5kg

You've got to be joking, right?

Edited by TheLastLazyGun
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She did the crime! Even if she was forced to. Sorry but it you break the laws of that country you have to pay the price.

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You've got to be joking, right?

How so? You think death is an equitable sentence?

Oh, and the prosecution recommended 15 years, so how is my reasoning flawed?

Edited by ExpandMyMind

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How so? You think death is an equitable sentence?

I think she very much deserves the death sentence for such a heinous crime. Those drugs would have ruined hundreds, if not thousands, of people's lives had the smugglers been successful in their operation.

And I think Britain should follow suit. If Britain had the death penalty for drug smuggling maybe we'll see a lot less people in Britain having their lives ruined by such drugs. Britain, with its soft, liberal stance on drugs, can learn a lot from Indonesia and those other South East Asian countries which have the death penalty for drug smuggling.

If she didn't want to be sentenced to death she shouldn't have smuggled cocaine into a country which has the death penalty for that crime.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun
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I think she very much deserves the death sentence for such a heinous crime. Those drugs would have ruined hundreds, if not thousands, of people's lives had the smugglers been successful in their operation.

And I think Britain should follow suit. If Britain had the death penalty for drug smuggling maybe we'll see a lot less people in Britain having their lives ruined by such drugs. Britain, with its soft, liberal stance on drugs, can learn a lot from Indonesia and those other South East Asian countries which have the death penalty for drug smuggling.

If she didn't want to be sentenced to death she shouldn't have smuggled cocaine into a country which has the death penalty for that crime.

Only, all they will do is execute a mule. The death penalty over here would never effect those that run these operations, because as usual the real players stay well clear, and the addicts, mentally challenged, and those caught in cycle of fear from dealers vs the law will be the ones carrying the can.

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I think she very much deserves the death sentence for such a heinous crime. Those drugs would have ruined hundreds, if not thousands, of people's lives had the smugglers been successful in their operation.

And I think Britain should follow suit. If Britain had the death penalty for drug smuggling maybe we'll see a lot less people in Britain having their lives ruined by such drugs. Britain, with its soft, liberal stance on drugs, can learn a lot from Indonesia and those other South East Asian countries which have the death penalty for drug smuggling.

If she didn't want to be sentenced to death she shouldn't have smuggled cocaine into a country which has the death penalty for that crime.

Britain should follow suit of a whole host of Third-World, barbaric countries? You want to move backwards; to descend back from a more civilised society, into one where we have legalised murder? You think it'll make even the slightest dent in our drug trade? It might stop 1% of drugs coming into our country that enter through the idiotic ideas of individual people out to make a few quid, but do you think drugs barons with millions of pounds invested will be deterred in the slightest? Don't make me laugh.

These particular drugs would have had little, if not no noticeable impact on the people of Indonesia. The people who would have received them would, for the most part, have already been addicted or using, from the drugs that actually flood the country in exponentially larger amounts through boats and trucks and planes. And it is cocaine, not heroin. Unless it was planned to be altered to resemble crack, then how on earth would it ruin thousands of lives? Do you even have a clue about cocaine? Do you understand how many hundreds of thousands of perfectly functional British citizens, from the lower classes to professionals, recreationally use the stuff every weekend, without ruining lives?

Gotta love the ill-informed - uninformed - tough-love stance that some people adopt regarding the matter of drugs. All while most of them enjoy a drink. Hilarious.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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What you think about her statement that she was only smuggling drugs because her children were in danger?

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Britain should follow suit of a whole host of Third-World, barbaric countries?

I see nothing barbaric whatsoever in taking whatever measures are necessary to put an end to drug smuggling.

And when people commit a capital offence the vast majority of the time they KNOW they have committed a capital offence. It's not like they weren't warned beforehand. They know what would happen to them if they are caught. I have no sympathy with them whatsoever. They should not have been committing a capital offence in the first place.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun
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What you think about her statement that she was only smuggling drugs because her children were in danger?

I think it's entirely possible and that this sort of thing does happen (this is not to say it is true though). I think that her having no history of drug crimes in a small way might back up her claim (as would the British police checking that she has no family members or acquaintances with similar ties to the underworld), but I also think that it would be near-impossible for her to prove, so as a defence goes, it's extremely shaky at best and any lawyer would have advised her to claim the same thing. It's simply her word as evidence, which is not enough.

I also think that if someone is forcing you into such a thing, then you should go to the authorities.

But you might not have been asking me :)

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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What you think about her statement that she was only smuggling drugs because her children were in danger?

I think it's a load of codswallop.

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I see nothing barbaric it taking whatever measures are necessary to put an end to drug smuggling.

Well, first, it wouldn't put an end to anything. As is quite clearly shown by the numerous countries who employ such tough laws yet have worse problems than Britain regarding drug smuggling and addiction! So this, with respect, is just complete nonsense.

And second, of course it is barbaric to end someone's life. This is called murder, and whether or not it is an individual carrying it out or a government, the same morals apply. There is a reason that the only countries you see on these lists...:

http://en.wikipedia....rug_trafficking

http://www.guardian....countries-world

...Are, bar one or two (which is at times debatable), backwards, Third-World countries with generally barbaric governments, laws and judicial systems. You seriously want Britain to be on the same list? This is actually quite shocking to hear from someone who lives in a modern society.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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I think everyone knows the risks of Drug Smuggling in Indonesia... no-one can be so ignorant. and 5 Kgs would destroy 10's of thousands of lives after it has been cut and distributed.

I somehow doubt that the woman caught was not hoping for a big payday, and she would have got it had she not been caught!!

Sorry, but if you totally disregard another Nations Laws then you have to suffer the consequences. No sympathy here, because I have seen what drugs have done to to the UK's youth, and it is frightening.

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I think everyone knows the risks of Drug Smuggling in Indonesia... no-one can be so ignorant. and 5 Kgs would destroy 10's of thousands of lives after it has been cut and distributed.

10s of thousands of lives? 5000 grams of cocaine would? What on earth are you talking about?

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Sorry but she committed a crime and the punishment is clear for said crime in this country. It's her own fault and no one else's.

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10s of thousands of lives? 5000 grams of cocaine would? What on earth are you talking about?

Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

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Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

Personal attacks Keith? Really?

Even if it is 100% pure there is no way in hell it would have 'caused' tens of thousands of ruined lives, even if cut to 20% purity - in fact, the lower the purity and therefore the more people who would receive some of it, the less chance it would truly affect lives in any noticeable way. We're not talking about PCP or crystal meth here. At most it might have contributed, and only very slightly, to any problems that drug users already have.

What it is cut with? What difference does that make? Are you of those who believe the myth that drugs are cut with very dangerous chemicals? That dealers wish to see their clientele dead? :D This can happen, but cases are so far in the minority they're barely worth mentioning unless your plan is to try to scare people into not taking them. My favourite is ecstacy mixed with rat poison. Can't beat the classics.

And kids? Who says kids are the highest demographic of users? Even in most Third World countries kids are in the minority of users. This is yet another scare tactic used to demonise drugs. This is not to say that there is a problem with this, but you cannot unequivocally state that this is where the drugs would end up.

Ruined tens of thousands of lives. You must be kidding. I'm not claiming that the drugs entering the country would have been a good thing, but when you grossly exaggerate the effect they would have had, like you have, all it does is weaken your case.

Besides, them not entering would have had literally no effect on people who take the drugs or want to take them - they are always available by other means.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Depends what you cut it with!! Idiot... You do not know the provenace of the original supply, you do not know what it it has been cut with, you are truly stupid, perhaps you think Stoned - Out kids are funny, perhps you are disappointed that you didn't get any of this stuff!!!

However you cut it, most coke is between 40-60%, so you'd only turn 5000 to 10,000 grams anyway - now whilst that sounds alot, if you go back to the days of illegal raves for example, that would cater for the needs of about half the party goers, for a few hours (given as an example)....it's small fry in terms of average cocaine use in the uk at a weekend. I'm not condoning it (far from it), but it's not in the league of the real drugs that destroy lives, like heroin and crystal meth as expandmymind alluded too.

To make my point clear - i'm not condoning drug use (at all), my point is in relation to the amount and about this women being sentenced to death for it - it's way out of proportion.

Edited by Sky Scanner
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However you cut it, most coke is between 40-60%, so you'd only turn 5000 to 10,000 grams anyway - now whilst that sounds alot, if you go back to the days of illegal raves for example, that would cater for the needs of about half the party goers, for a few hours (given as an example)....it's small fry in terms of average cocaine use in the uk at a weekend. I'm not condoning it (far from it), but it's not in the league of the real drugs that destroy lives, like heroin and crystal meth as expandyourmind alluded too.

To make my point clear - i'm not condoning drug use (at all), my point is in relation to the amount and about this women being sentenced to death for it - it's way out of proportion.

I agree with all of this. Someone could take a quarter of an ounce of the purity you mention in one night and not become addicted. They could do it recreationally every other weekend and never become addicted. How anyone could try to claim that 5000g would therefore ruin tens of thousands or even thousands of lives is beyond me. I'd be surprised if it 'ruined' 10 lives.

Edited by ExpandMyMind

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I agree with all of this. Someone could take a quarter of an ounce of the purity you mention in one night and not become addicted. They could do it recreationally every other weekend and never become addicted. How anyone could try to claim that 5000g would therefore ruin tens of thousands or even thousands of lives is beyond me. I'd be surprised if it 'ruined' 10 lives.

Well the addiction aspect is a whole new topic - but there are some interesting articles on the net regarding how it was first classified, and how it has been tested since. I would say though that it can destroy lives, but imo, mainly in terms of some 20(something) having a few beers with his mates, getting the chuck norris syndrome, and letting his mouth get him in trouble....(that's no more of a problem every friday night then beer on it's own can be though)

Apologees for spelling your name wrong above - corrected it now :tu:

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I don't think the punishment quite deserves the crime, but she doesn't seem entirely innocent at this point.

I'm not a mother,but I don't think I could be anyone's drug runner. Too much risk in my mind. She gambled with her fate and lost. Of course foreign prisons are terrible to be in, much worse than her native country. My advise is to not even THINK about drugs when you are in a foreign country.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21137649

Barbaric. I mean if a country has tough drugs laws, that's their business, but the death penalty? By firing squad? Though with it being Indonesia, this is hardly surprising considering their numerous acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Should have given her 15 years - life. I mean it was only 5kg - they go through more than that on a Friday night in Glasgow.

I hope the Foreign Office fight for her, idiot that she is.

I don't know about her being an idiot ...I read that she was doing it because they threatened her family, and she is known to have mental problems ... I hope they fight for her rights and not allow her to face the death penalty

I think it was this article that spoke of her being vulnerable and has a history of mental health issues she has had, along with the threat to her family..

EDIT to add in article as to what I had read it...

In her witness statement earlier in the trial, Sandiford expressed regret for her actions. "I would like to begin by apologising to the Republic of Indonesia and the Indonesian people for my involvement. I would never have become involved in something like this but the lives of my children were in danger and I felt I had to protect them," she said.

During the trial, her lawyer read out a statement from her son that said: "I love my mother very much and have a very close relationship with her. I know that she would do anything to protect me. I cannot imagine what I would do if she was sentenced to death in relation to these charges."

Reprieve, a legal action charity, said Sandiford was a vulnerable target for drugs traffickers, pointing to an expert report from Dr Jennifer Fleetwood that was put before the court. Fleetwood concluded that Sandiford's vulnerability would have made her an ideal target for drugs traffickers, noting that: "There is … evidence to suggest that a trafficker would seek someone who was vulnerable. Having reviewed extracts from Lindsay's medical records I know that Lindsay has a history of mental health issues … This may have unfortunately made her an attractive target for threats, manipulation and coercion." http://www.guardian....ton-death-drugs

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Personal attacks Keith? Really?

Even if it is 100% pure there is no way in hell it would have 'caused' tens of thousands of ruined lives, even if cut to 20% purity - in fact, the lower the purity and therefore the more people who would receive some of it, the less chance it would truly affect lives in any noticeable way. We're not talking about PCP or crystal meth here. At most it might have contributed, and only very slightly, to any problems that drug users already have.

What it is cut with? What difference does that make? Are you of those who believe the myth that drugs are cut with very dangerous chemicals? That dealers wish to see their clientele dead? :D This can happen, but cases are so far in the minority they're barely worth mentioning unless your plan is to try to scare people into not taking them. My favourite is ecstacy mixed with rat poison. Can't beat the classics.

And kids? Who says kids are the highest demographic of users? Even in most Third World countries kids are in the minority of users. This is yet another scare tactic used to demonise drugs. This is not to say that there is a problem with this, but you cannot unequivocally state that this is where the drugs would end up.

Ruined tens of thousands of lives. You must be kidding. I'm not claiming that the drugs entering the country would have been a good thing, but when you grossly exaggerate the effect they would have had, like you have, all it does is weaken your case.

Besides, them not entering would have had literally no effect on people who take the drugs or want to take them - they are always available by other means.

Yes... sorry about that ExpandMyMind, I do apologise

I just get very wound up when illicit Drug taking is ever referred to as "Recreational". it is far from it. As far as I can tell it is largely as a result of Peer pressure that people get hooked on this destructive path to nowhere in the first place.

Illicit drugs have no Quality Control, can, and have been, "Cut" with other substances inimical to life, and pose a very serious threat to Society at large. Attempts to stem the supply have largely failed because Govt's largely do not have the will to stop it. You also have the thought that "Spaced Out" populations are easier to manipulate from the top, and diverts attention from real Politics

Capital Punishment for Dealers, Suppliers, and their Mules might make many of them consider this activity to be not worthwhile, so I applaud Indonesia's tough stance on this.

Again, apologies for my earlier rudeness ExpandMyMind

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Unless the individual personally escorted the GOV deemed illegally containing banned substance its impossible, without clear evidence, to prosecute.

Edited by acidhead

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I think some of you Brits need to travel a bit more.

Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers for decades now. I'm thinking back to Barlow and Chambers, Australians executed around 88 I think.

It is clearly spelled out in very big letters in English and other languages at airports.

If you bring drugs into this country, you can be executed for this crime.

U'm, granny brought drugs into the country. Obviously she can read, she had a passport and got on the right plane. Whatever her excuses, it all comes down to the same reason: money. The Indonesians couldn't give a stuff who she was trying to get money for. That's their law and it's their country.

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