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keithisco

Yes: there will be an EU In / Out referendum

95 posts in this topic

For those of you hoping for a Referendum on the EU in 2014... Cameron has back - tracked on his stance and will not now commit to one UNLESS the Tories win the the next General Election, at which point they will START to re-negotiate UK Terms with the EU, followed by a referendum some time after that.

Read more from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

"Setting out the conditions for a future referendum, Mr Cameron will say: "The next Conservative manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next parliament.

"And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice to stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether. It will be an in-out referendum.

But he will say that holding an in/out referendum now would be a "false choice" because Europe is set to change following the eurozone crisis"

I was fully expecting a Referendum to give a mandate for re-negotiation to be next year, with a full IN / OUT referendum to be held within the first year of the new Parliament.

Anybody else feeling a bit cheated by the new time-scales and caveats (i.e. re-elected Tory Govt)??

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Yup, populist gimmick written all over it. The next Conservative manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next parliament.

You mean they've thought of a policy at least, albeit one that will probably never see the light of day?

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Why is he putting this off to 2015, if he had one now he would almost certainly be re-elected,and we would no longer be a Euro annexe.

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He's waiting till 2015-2017 because the referendum will only come around those years IF he gets re-elected. That is now the condition.

This has nothing to do with the benefit for the UK ppl, this has everything to do with Cameron trying to get some votes. It's so desperate.

And by 2015-2017 the EU will have rebounded and be a stronger force, so then all the doubt will come again if a referendum is actually needed.

Populism is so transparant. If only everyone would see.

Edited by Render
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He's waiting till 2015-2017 because the referendum will only come around those years IF he gets re-elected. That is now the condition.

This has nothing to do with the benefit for the UK ppl, this has everything to do with Cameron trying to get some votes. It's so desperate.

And by 2015-2017 the EU will have rebounded and be a stronger force, so then all the doubt will come again if a referendum is actually needed.

Populism is so transparant. If only everyone would see.

Exactly; dangle a Carrot in front of the (potentially) Tory voters, or at least try to lure them away from UKIP.

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Exactly; dangle a Carrot in front of the (potentially) Tory voters, or at least try to lure them away from UKIP.

Exactly. This must be the most vague commitment to a referendum that was possible to think up. You'd have to be pretty dim to fall for this rubbish. Besides, didn't the two main parties promise something similar before the last election? If we want to be masters of our own destiny, it's pretty clear what we have to do, & it doesn't involve any of the three usual suspects.

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Exactly. This must be the most vague commitment to a referendum that was possible to think up. You'd have to be pretty dim to fall for this rubbish. Besides, didn't the two main parties promise something similar before the last election? If we want to be masters of our own destiny, it's pretty clear what we have to do, & it doesn't involve any of the three usual suspects.

We all knew this would be the case. i doubt the Tories will win the next election, to many people have short memories and by the time the next general election comes around they'll have long forgot what damage the labour party caused yet will be able to tell you who won the X factor.

David Cameron took the easy option, i bet if he was to win the next general election they'd somehow backtrack on a referendum, - i just hope this weak attempt from the Tory Government pushes more people towards UKIP.

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For those of you hoping for a Referendum on the EU in 2014... Cameron has back - tracked on his stance and will not now commit to one UNLESS the Tories win the the next General Election, at which point they will START to re-negotiate UK Terms with the EU, followed by a referendum some time after that.

Read more from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-21148282

"Setting out the conditions for a future referendum, Mr Cameron will say: "The next Conservative manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next parliament.

"And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice to stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether. It will be an in-out referendum.

But he will say that holding an in/out referendum now would be a "false choice" because Europe is set to change following the eurozone crisis"

I was fully expecting a Referendum to give a mandate for re-negotiation to be next year, with a full IN / OUT referendum to be held within the first year of the new Parliament.

Anybody else feeling a bit cheated by the new time-scales and caveats (i.e. re-elected Tory Govt)??

Trying to take UKIP votes without giving the public what they want.

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'We'll roll out the red carpet for UK businessmen if Britain leaves the EU': French foreign minister's jibe as Cameron announces referendum

  • Laurent Fabius was mimicking PM's comment last summer, that Britain would welcome Gallic companies if France elected a left-wing government
  • He suggested Britain will turn into a basket case economy if it does exit the EU following the nationwide poll
  • German foreign minister warns UK against 'cherry-picking' as he argues for more European integration
  • Spain warns withdrawal would leave British industry balanced on 'a few insular stools'
  • Ireland's deputy prime minister Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore said it was in Britain's best interests to remain within the EU

http://www.dailymail...referendum.html

haha there we go

Edited by Render

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Plucky little Britain - go for it :w00t:

Br Cornelius

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Plucky little Britain - go for it :w00t:

Br Cornelius

Given the chance we will. :w00t:

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Well, after decades of announcing the withdrawal I see that the rest of Europe is getting ready to wave goodbye. And if this circus continues my bet is that it will be with the boot.

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Well, after decades of announcing the withdrawal I see that the rest of Europe is getting ready to wave goodbye. And if this circus continues my bet is that it will be with the boot.

Or possibly 'jack boot'

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'We'll roll out the red carpet for UK businessmen if Britain leaves the EU': French foreign minister's jibe as Cameron announces referendum

http://www.dailymail...referendum.html

haha there we go

'a few insular stools'

I rather like that phrase. It could well describe quite a few politicians, couldn't it.

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the EU would be entirely admirable if it wasn't for this silly Common Currency idea, I think. That was the problem. I mean, that was just a purely dogmatic idea which was pushed through without thinking about how practical it was, really. And all this tedious insistence on imposing regulations to "harmonise" everything; again, that just seems like Politicians imposing things in order to show everyone who's boss. Why does there need to be a common Government? Why couldn't it just be a free trade area, like was the original idea behind it? These, I think, are the main problems with it.

I'm afraid that the smug "well, the rest of Europe will be waving bye bye" attitude doesn't really help, and nor does the insistence on portraying everyone who questions things like the Common Currency as a xenophobic bigot, since I think most people outside a small core of readers of certain papers who still hate the Germans would have no problem with free trade, in fact that's a concept that Britain has always been all in favour of, it's just that people really don't like having regulations imposed on them by another layer of Government on top of the already incompetent one they already have. I do wish that pro-EU supporters would be able to understand that, and not just dismiss everything with "the rest of Europe is getting ready to wave goodbye".

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the EU would be entirely admirable if it wasn't for this silly Common Currency idea, I think. That was the problem. I mean, that was just a purely dogmatic idea which was pushed through without thinking about how practical it was, really. And all this tedious insistence on imposing regulations to "harmonise" everything; again, that just seems like Politicians imposing things in order to show everyone who's boss. Why does there need to be a common Government? Why couldn't it just be a free trade area, like was the original idea behind it? These, I think, are the main problems with it.

I'm afraid that the smug "well, the rest of Europe will be waving bye bye" attitude doesn't really help, and nor does the insistence on portraying everyone who questions things like the Common Currency as a xenophobic bigot, since I think most people outside a small core of readers of certain papers who still hate the Germans would have no problem with free trade, in fact that's a concept that Britain has always been all in favour of, it's just that people really don't like having regulations imposed on them by another layer of Government on top of the already incompetent one they already have. I do wish that pro-EU supporters would be able to understand that, and not just dismiss everything with "the rest of Europe is getting ready to wave goodbye".

The single currency is not really a problem, having an open market with different currencies was. In the good old days all it took is for the Italians to devalue the Lira and bang, a few thousand workers were unemployed in Manchester because British cloth maker could not compete at the new Italian price. The only thing that went wrong with the common currency is that it came at the wrong time. You first put in equal rules for all and then you have a central bank for all having the instruments in place to oversee the rules and fine where needed.

But that was politicking at the time, the Germans got the reunification and the French the Euro...15 years too early.

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Yes: there will be an EU In / Out referendum

...but not for at least 7 years

That's funny. I thought Cameron said the referendum will be held between 2015 and 2017.

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He's waiting till 2015-2017 because the referendum will only come around those years IF he gets re-elected.

I think we'll definitely have a referendum around then even if he isn't elected.

That's because the Labour Party will know that they are on the back foot now that there will be a referendum if the Conservatives are to be re-elected. Most Britons want a referendum, so the Labour Party cannot afford to just sit back and do nothing now that the Conservatives have promised one. So it will only be a matter of time before Labour will also promise a referendum should THEY be re-elected.

This has nothing to do with the benefit for the UK ppl, this has everything to do with Cameron trying to get some votes. It's so desperate.

I don't care what Cameron's motives are. Despite the EU's best efforts Britain is still a democracy and it's only right in our democracy that the British people get to decide on whether or not they want in or out of the EU.

The British people will decide whether or not Britain is to remain in the EU, not British politicians and most certainly not unelected, anti-British, democracy-hating, nation-state-detesting, corrupt Eurocrats.

The cogs of democracy have started turning in Britain and those Eurocrats - judging by their reactions to Cameron's speech - are now running scared.

And by 2015-2017 the EU will have rebounded and be a stronger force

Either you've got a crystal ball or you are simply thinking wishfully. I'd say it's the latter.

My betting is that the EU (especially the Eurozone) will still be the Sick Man of the World by then.

Populism is so transparant.

It's not "popuilism". It's democracy.

I know Europhiles hate democracy, but that's just life.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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"It's not "popuilism". It's democracy.

I know Europhiles hate democracy, but that's just life"

A country who draws almost all of its politicians from public schools and dynastic career politicans cannot be called a democracy. Didn't anyone ever tell you that your still a subject.

Br Cornelius

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The only thing that went wrong with the common currency is that it came at the wrong time.

The only thing that went wrong with the Euro is, as many people in Britain warned when it was being introduced (their warnings were, of course, ignored), that a one-size-fits-all monetary policy cannot work and was always doomed to failure.

If the people who run the EU had actually listened to those critics then the Eurozone won't be in the mess that it's in now.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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A country who draws almost all of its politicians from public schools and dynastic career politicans cannot be called a democracy

Why not?

And I would rather be led by people who have had a good education than by those who have had a bad one.

Didn't anyone ever tell you that your still a subject.

Didn't anyone tell you that the British are NOT subjects?

And, even if they are, that is not a sign of lack of democracy or lack of freedom.

Is a British "subject" less free than a US or French citizen? Not according to the latest list of most democratic countries.

If Britain is suffering a lack of democracy, that's because it's in the EU, which doesn't like democracy and the opinion of the people.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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"It's not "popuilism". It's democracy.

I know Europhiles hate democracy, but that's just life"

A country who draws almost all of its politicians from public schools and dynastic career politicans cannot be called a democracy. Didn't anyone ever tell you that your still a subject.

Br Cornelius

Semantics dear boy, semantics.

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The picture that Cameron presented was a veritable British heaven on earth: an open, competitive, flexible Europe with a restored sense of the importance of democratic accountability and respect for the historical differences between its member states. Oh gosh, yes. We would all (on this side of the Channel) sign up to that. Add to that a reduction in central control, the reversibility of EU powers and a minimal role for Brussels bureaucracy in a free single market – what's not to like?

Respecting individual nation states and their governments is a principle which the EU – which has consciously chosen to invest power in its unelected central institutions – is never likely to accept. Britain, on these terms, is better off out.

http://blogs.telegra...luck-with-that/

And Peter Hitchens sums up the madness of the Europhiles and their loathing for democracy perfectly....

The European Question is a very simple one. The EU is, and always has been, a plan to integrate its members into a single supranational state. The idea that Britain ‘originally joined a Common Market which was just a free trade area’ is the most abject tripe. There was never any such organisation.

The poor boobies who write letters to the papers claiming that this what they voted for back in 1975 are just that, boobies. They refused to listen to the correct warnings they were given at the time. Then, when the warnings proved to be true, these boobies forgave themselves by pretending that they didn’t know, when the truth was that they knew, but preferred to ignore the knowledge.

The readiness of supposed ‘Eurosceptics’ to believe obvious falsehoods, peddled by blatant charlatans, while dismissing the cogent warnings of the informed, is amazing. Do bluebottles fly into their open mouths as they walk along? This is one of the reasons why I increasingly believe Britain deserves its fate as a bankrupt ex-power. Tribal voters prefer their comfortable habits to any sort of thought. In that case, why be surprised when you are betrayed and spat upon, repeatedly?

Here we are again, with Mr Slippery going on and on about a referendum of some kind or other which he will offer, in the impossible future after he has won a general election. What kind of nitwit would be wooed by this stuff?

First, the Conservative Party is not going to win the next election, or any other national election, so the referendum, in the form put forward by Mr Slippery, will never be held.

Secondly, if the Slippery pledge leads the other parties to match it, and a referendum is in fact held, the government will control:

The rules

The timing

The question

Thirdly, if even after all that, the people of the country come up with the “wrong” answer (i.e. vote to leave the EU), the result will be ignored or circumvented or used as a pretext for ‘renegotiation’ of our position in the EU, which will lead nowhere.

http://hitchensblog....referendum.html

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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Why not?

And I would rather be led by people who have had a good education than by those who have had a bad one.

When politics is disproportionately drawn from the upper middle class is it any surprise that they favour policies which disproportionately favour their own class.

This is why the UK government has been running along clutching the tail of the city spivs for the last 200years and been totally neglecting its industrial base or even running it down. England hasn't had a meaningful industrial policy since the 1950's because it draws almost none of its representatives from the industrial sector.

Is it any surprise that the Government allowed a credit bubble and property bubble ruin the economy when the financial industry was whispering sweet nothings in its ear.

Is it any surprise that it has attempted to block any EU driven meaningful reform of the financial sector - despite the corrosive effect it has has on the economy of the country.

Really, who's interests are the Tory spivs really looking after ?

Br Cornelius

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