Yes: there will be an EU In / Out referendum

[Guest]

Yet the French see it as okay to attack Britain's financial sector and the City of London.

The CAP feeds people, the City destroys livelyhoods. Why would we protect the city when it has been the ruin of the greater British Economy.

Last time I looked it was the main cause of the financial collapse and the ongoing fraud in the fianacial sector.

Are you a banker by any chance.

Br Cornelius

Edited January 28, 2013 by Guest

[TheLastLazyGun]

The CAP feeds people

The CAP gives more money to inefficient and extremely rich French farmers than the amount that is given to poor African farmers. It's disgusting and I don't want my money to contribute to it any longer. My hatred for the CAP - which accounts for 40% of the EUSSR's total spending - grows larger whenever I picture those smug but inefficient French farmers on that BBC documentary a few years ago who were cockily and sarcastically thanking the British taxpaying mugs who fund their extravagant lifestyles of fast sports cars and holidays in Marseille, whilst the British taxpayer gives less money to starving farmers in the Third World.

Why would we protect the city

Because the City of London accounts for 2.4% of the UK's GDP and we have every right to defend it. We'd never hear the end of it were the British out to destroy such a large sector of the French economy.

Edited January 28, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[TheLastLazyGun]

Considering China is expected to grow by 8% in 2013.

Meanwhile, it is forecast that the GDP of the Eurozone (which, mercifully, Britain isn't a part of) is to shrink by 0.5% this year.

[stevewinn]

Meanwhile, it is forecast that the GDP of the Eurozone (which, mercifully, Britain isn't a part of) is to shrink by 0.5% this year.

they say - the experts that the euro zone will take 10 years to turn things around, how different will the EU/Eurozone look in ten years time. Greece is actually in a depression and has been for the last 6 years. this is the mess the prosperous members have to fix and are expected to fix. - that is one of the main reasons we should leave ASAP. let the likes of Germany, France hand over their tax payers money time and time again. they'll soon get fed up. look at the eurozone members. its going to take a century to bring their economies of the lesser countries to a level that is remotely comparable to the EU giants. -The EU is trying to strive forward pulling ten tonne of dead weight behind them.

[keithisco]

they say - the experts that the euro zone will take 10 years to turn things around, how different will the EU/Eurozone look in ten years time. Greece is actually in a depression and has been for the last 6 years. this is the mess the prosperous members have to fix and are expected to fix. - that is one of the main reasons we should leave ASAP. let the likes of Germany, France hand over their tax payers money time and time again. they'll soon get fed up. look at the eurozone members. its going to take a century to bring their economies of the lesser countries to a level that is remotely comparable to the EU giants. -The EU is trying to strive forward pulling ten tonne of dead weight behind them.

Then perhaps the ECB shouldn´t have handed over 37,4 Billion Euros of bailout money to UK Banks.

[stevewinn]

Then perhaps the ECB shouldn´t have handed over 37,4 Billion Euros of bailout money to UK Banks.

Yes but lets tell people the fully story, this 37.4 Billion to UK banks the loans never come to UK mainland, the loans from the ECB are for the exposure to the British banks, with operations in mainland Europe. they applied for the loan which was to cover their operations in Europe.

British Banks NEVER loaned money for their UK operations. - people could and will confuse the two, because it looks like the ECB were bailing out the UK, which is simply not true and why i feel i have to point this out- in short the British banks who operate in Europe received ECB money to cover their exposure and operations in european countries and eurozone areas only. - i bet that as burst some peoples bubbles.

Again. the banks who borrowed the ECB money done so to cover their exposure in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Netherlands etc...........Not the UK. i hope Keith and Questionmark never thought they were bailing out the UK. easy mistake to make when your off the boil.

[questionmark]

Yes but lets tell people the fully story, this 37.4 Billion to UK banks the loans never come to UK mainland, the loans from the ECB are for the exposure to the British banks, with operations in mainland Europe. they applied for the loan which was to cover their operations in Europe.

British Banks NEVER loaned money for their UK operations. - people could and will confuse the two, because it looks like the ECB were bailing out the UK, which is simply not true and why i feel i have to point this out- in short the British banks who operate in Europe received ECB money to cover their exposure and operations in european countries and eurozone areas only. - i bet that as burst some peoples bubbles.

Again. the banks who borrowed the ECB money done so to cover their exposure in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Netherlands etc...........Not the UK. i hope Keith and Questionmark never thought they were bailing out the UK. easy mistake to make when your off the boil.

You make that protecting British banks against going bankrupt due to their self incurred exposition is not bailing them out? Can you send me a copy of your dictionary?

[keithisco]

Yes but lets tell people the fully story, this 37.4 Billion to UK banks the loans never come to UK mainland, the loans from the ECB are for the exposure to the British banks, with operations in mainland Europe. they applied for the loan which was to cover their operations in Europe.

British Banks NEVER loaned money for their UK operations. - people could and will confuse the two, because it looks like the ECB were bailing out the UK, which is simply not true and why i feel i have to point this out- in short the British banks who operate in Europe received ECB money to cover their exposure and operations in european countries and eurozone areas only. - i bet that as burst some peoples bubbles.

Again. the banks who borrowed the ECB money done so to cover their exposure in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Netherlands etc...........Not the UK. i hope Keith and Questionmark never thought they were bailing out the UK. easy mistake to make when your off the boil.

In short the UK Banks were Bailed Out by the ECB for their poor, almost criminal, lending within Europe? Still a "Bail Out" in anybody´s book.

The only "bubble" that has burst is the Financial "Bubble" that the UK Banks never saw coming, along with the rest of the World´s Banking Institutions.

Edited January 29, 2013 by keithisco

[smurf0852]

it is pointless discussing this with the England flag waving types because we won the war don't you know tally ho chocks away .

arguing with this bunch of europhile little Englanders is like trying to tell fire not to get hot .

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

it is pointless discussing this with the England flag waving types because we won the war don't you know tally ho chocks away .

arguing with this bunch of europhile little Englanders is like trying to tell fire not to get hot .

Johnny Englander and proud of it,I love my Country not the EUSSR.

Oh and I love Canada as well.

Edited January 30, 2013 by shaddow134

[keithisco]

It appears that France, Italy, Poland, and Greece will refuse to re - negotiate terms with the UK, which require unanimity within the EU for agreement.

This means that any further pronouncements from Cameron, any details, any taking back of powers that he presents in the run - up to the next election, will just be pointless hot - air. There will be no presentation in 2017 (assumes his re-election) of renegotiated terms therefore, no referendum, because he left enough "wriggle room" to get out of this "pledge".

He is just as cynical as all the other Politicians in Governm,ent down the ages

[Frank Merton]

Of course they refuse to negotiate, until they negotiate. Cameron understand all that.

[keithisco]

Cameron actually does not understand EU sentiment towards the UK. They would like nothing better than to leave the idiot with egg on his face for promising something he cant deliver

[Frank Merton]

I suspect he understands things perfectly well. People like him are not idiots, much as losers in the general public may like to persuade themselves they are.

[Guest]

I suspect he understands things perfectly well. People like him are not idiots, much as losers in the general public may like to persuade themselves they are.

He has made a pledge which he knew when he made it, he would never have to deliver on.

Br Cornelius

[TheLastLazyGun]

it is pointless discussing this with the England flag waving types because we won the war don't you know tally ho chocks away .

arguing with this bunch of europhile little Englanders is like trying to tell fire not to get hot .

I'd rather be a St George's Flag waver than a Hammer & Sickle waver.

Edited January 30, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[TheLastLazyGun]

It appears that France, Italy, Poland, and Greece will refuse to re - negotiate terms with the UK, which require unanimity within the EU for agreement

As I've pointed out, do you really believe that the EU will not re-negotiate terms with the UK? Whilst the UK threatens to leave the EU should the EU not listen to the UK's ways to make the EU better, the EU will listen to what the UK has to say. The EU does not want the UK to leave due to the fact that the EU needs the UK. Whilst the UK continues to threaten to leave the EU should its terms not be listened to, its terms WILL be listened to by the EU.

As this article states, the UK is currently holding all the aces:

This time, it’s us holding the aces on Europe

Simon Heffer

Daily Mail

29th January 2013

An early message from the Brussels powers was that they wanted all the UK’s fishing rights, even though the waters were entirely ours. London groaned. Very well, let them go.

Even land-locked Luxembourg gets a share, but ignore that — just put in some delays to prevent British fishermen thinking they have been sold out overnight.

Brussels wanted us to sign up to the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), the system by which France underpins its farmers with massive subsidies and high prices

Very well, said London, surrender as gracefully as possible. Please extract some promises that the CAP will be radically reformed in due course, if not before, or at any rate eventually.

The Common Market’s negotiators got excited. It was all proving so easy. Perhaps we could deem North Sea oil, like Britain’s fishing waters, ‘a community resource’ — in other words, belonging to the countries represented at Brussels.

At last, Heath stood firm. MPs and voters would be outraged, he responded. So that idea never got up any steam.

Now we have a new prospect. The UK can set about undoing the damage of the past half-century, not just in farming and fishing, but in all those crazy regulations from Brussels.

They affect every sphere of our lives, from selling bananas to hours of work, and apart from often being very, very silly, impose severe costs on the business world.

This time it is we who hold all the aces. German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s reaction to David Cameron’s speech was condescending: ‘We are prepared to talk about British wishes.’

This was seen by some British commentators as genuinely helpful.

How can they be so naive? What choice does she or any other EU leader have?

While we are about it, observe this simple statistic: last year for the first time, the UK became Germany’s biggest trading partner for goods and services, edging ahead of France and the U.S.

Yes, our trade matters to the whole EU, and is in any case covered by the European Economic Area agreement (separate from the Treaty of Rome and its b****** descendants).

Apart from which, difficult as our economic position may be these days, it is even worse for most EU countries where the euro constantly threatens to unravel dramatically.

And politically? Ah, that’s where our exit threat provides true leverage. If we were to leave the Union, the grandest scheme of them all, the project for a United States of Europe, collapses. It would go down in history as a spectacular flop, a grand alliance shorn of democratic endorsement or political foresight.

The threat to leave is a veritable sword of Damocles that will hang over the EU until the referendum itself. It will make the Brussels powers anxious to placate us.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2JTbIHAQf

Edited January 30, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[shadowhive]

As I've pointed out, do you really believe that the EU will not re-negotiate terms with the UK? Whilst the UK threatens to leave the EU should the EU not listen to the UK's ways to make the EU better, the EU will listen to what the UK has to say.

For that to happen both sides need to act like grown ups and sit down and talk it through. If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what? That's not helping anything.I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone, just make things much more difficult ad then both sides will lose out.

[TheLastLazyGun]

If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

If anyone's not going to come to the table and talk, it will be the leaders of the other EU nations. It is Britain, remember, which wants to put forward its views of how to make the EU better. If the other nations don't want to listen then fine. If that happens there will be only one outcome - Britain will leave.

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what?

UKIP are right to demand a referendum. Despite the best efforts of Brussels Britain is still a democracy and it's time for the British people to have their say on whether or not they want to be part of the EUSSR.

There should be a referendum even if the EU does the right thing by re-negotiating terms with Britain and giving her back new powers, including the right - which all countries should have - to control her own waters and ban fishing fleets from the rest of the EU from entering British waters.

I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone,

1) It will either help the EU as a whole, because Britain's ideas to make the EU much better than it is will be listened to AND implemented due to the fact that Britain will almost certainly leave the EU should both of those not occur, or;

2) It will benefit Britain because, if Britain's proposals to make the EU better are ignored, then Britain will simply leave the EU and it will be much better off for it. And Britain can leave the EU without holding a referendum.

There is no way out of it for the rest of the EU. Britain will win either way. Either implement Britain's policies or Britain will leave the EU.

Edited January 30, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

For that to happen both sides need to act like grown ups and sit down and talk it through. If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what? That's not helping anything.I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone, just make things much more difficult ad then both sides will lose out.

If anyone's not going to come to the table and talk, it will be the leaders of the other EU nations. It is Britain, remember, which wants to put forward its views of how to make the EU better. If the other nations don't want to listen then fine. If that happens there will be only one outcome - Britain will leave.

UKIP are right to demand a referendum. Despite the best efforts of Brussels Britain is still a democracy and it's time for the British people to have their say on whether or not they want to be part of the EUSSR.

There should be a referendum even if the EU does the right thing by re-negotiating terms with Britain and giving her back new powers, including the right - which all countries should have - to control her own waters and ban fishing fleets from the rest of the EU from entering British waters.

1) It will either help the EU as a whole, because Britain's ideas to make the EU much better than it is will be listened to AND implemented due to the fact that Britain will almost certainly leave the EU should both of those not occur, or;

2) It will benefit Britain because, if Britain's proposals to make the EU better are ignored, then Britain will simply leave the EU and it will be much better off for it. And Britain can leave the EU without holding a referendum.

There is no way out of it for the rest of the EU. Britain will win either way. Either implement Britain's policies or Britain will leave the EU.

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/theeu.htm

Edited January 30, 2013 by shaddow134