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keithisco

Yes: there will be an EU In / Out referendum

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A majority of MSN UK readers would vote to quit the EU in a referendum, according to a new poll.

We asked how people would vote in an in/out EU referendum on the day that David Cameron promised such a vote if the Tories win the next general election in 2015.

More than 16,000 people have taken part in our online poll so far - and 69% would vote to quit. It's a result which shows that supporters of the UK remaining within the EU have their work cut out.

In a heavily anticipated speech in London, Mr Cameron said the next Tory general election manifesto would ask for a mandate to negotiate a "new settlement" for Britain in Europe. That deal would be put to voters in a referendum by the end of 2017.

Responding to the poll findings, Ukip leader Nigel Farage said: “If Cameron thinks he has parked the issue of Europe, then he has got another thing coming.

“We are delighted that he has made the idea of Britain leaving the European Union something that is no longer a dream, but something that is real.”

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http://news.uk.msn.c...t-speech-459701

Edited by TheLastLazyGun

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.

That's funny. I thought Cameron said the referendum will be held between 2015 and 2017.

OK, OK, dont get emotional - I started this thread before the actual Speech. I still stand by my statement however, because he will just delay and delay ("negotiations are taking longer than I expected").

In short, I believe this is little more than Political sleight-of-hand to diminish the popularity of UKIP and that the call for a referendum will not be honoured. In the final analysis, the Tory Party will simply kick Cameron out of the Position as Leader of the Party, and replace him with someone else – because in accordance with party Practises, a new leader is not hidebound by a previous leader’s decisions or pronouncements.

To be honest, all it takes is for 1 country to say NO to his re-negotiation plans and he will be left high and dry. France has already said NO after his speech, so really he has nothing to negotiate.

On the other hand, France has already said it will roll out the red carpet to any UK Business that wants to relocate there when UK pulls out!! I am on that list because the EU is my home and where I make all of my investments, and where I employ my staff.

Edited by keithisco

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And Peter Hitchens sums up the madness of the Europhiles and their loathing for democracy perfectly....

Unfortunately - your post actually proves the exact OPPOSITE of what you are trying to say...Nice try, could do better.

Oh, by the way... and keep this to yourself :yes: The rest of the EU REALLY want you to leave. You have prevented a democratically elected President from being chosen, a democratic Constitution being voted on, in fact every time democratic procedures were advanced the UK vetoed them. etc etc.

Bye Bye, good riddance - but of course, you will never have a referendum

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Expected nothing less from the French, they help asylum seekers onto transport going to U.K., and I think I would rather be a "Cherry Picker" than a Poop gatherer. Britain 3 France 1, Britain 2 Gemany 0, thats why they dont like us.We are the Champions ,no time for losers...........

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Expected nothing less from the French, they help asylum seekers onto transport going to U.K., and I think I would rather be a "Cherry Picker" than a Poop gatherer. Britain 3 France 1, Britain 2 Gemany 0, thats why they dont like us.We are the Champions ,no time for losers...........

Thankyou for your serious and considered contribution to this discussion... :passifier:

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Just thinking, is the only option we'd get an EU In / Out referendum? Couldn't there be an option for "shake it all about"? :su

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What surprises me most about Cameroons announcement is that the "re-negotiations" will not begin unless (if ever) the Tories are voted back in to Govern the country in 2015.

Why cannot the negotiations begin this year?? This is why I do not believe anything that Cameroon says.

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What surprises me most about Cameroons announcement is that the "re-negotiations" will not begin unless (if ever) the Tories are voted back in to Govern the country in 2015.

Why cannot the negotiations begin this year?? This is why I do not believe anything that Cameroon says.

Because there is nothing to negotiate. The EU will not stand for Briton Rebate V 2.0. And besides, they have other problems that need to be solved besides being the puppets of a British election by-show. So it will be: You either tag along or you quit.

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It has already been stated clearly today in the European Parliament that a renegotiation on Cameron's terms is not an option. Otherwise the floodgates would open and everyone would start to demand the most selfish things, sending the EU back in time. So i repeat: IT IS NOT AN OPTION

It has also been mentioned very clearly that most believe, and outright know, that Cameron has no real intention of doing anything but is merely playing, and i quote: "a political game".

He knows he has nothing to demand, and he knows the EU is getting sick of this. He's only making a fool of himself and the UK with that.

Edited by Render
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QM and Render: you are both correct. I have been following the EU Nations responses and it is clear that no negotiations are acceptable because at least 1 nation will simply veto them.

Cameroon has really made a fool of himself, he has nothing to negotiate and should just go to a referendum before the end of this Parliament

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Unfortunately - your post actually proves the exact OPPOSITE of what you are trying to say...Nice try, could do better.

Oh, by the way... and keep this to yourself :yes: The rest of the EU REALLY want you to leave. You have prevented a democratically elected President from being chosen, a democratic Constitution being voted on, in fact every time democratic procedures were advanced the UK vetoed them. etc etc.

Bye Bye, good riddance - but of course, you will never have a referendum

That's what a veto is for,if it doesn't suit the UK we Veto it,and it annoys the hell out of the rest of the member states,do we care no....

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QM and Render: you are both correct. I have been following the EU Nations responses and it is clear that no negotiations are acceptable because at least 1 nation will simply veto them.

Cameroon has really made a fool of himself, he has nothing to negotiate and should just go to a referendum before the end of this Parliament

I always had my doubts as to Mr Gamba's (perdóneme Camarón) ability to lead a country anywhere but further down the drain. Today,sadly, has confirmed my prejudice.

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It's almost getting painful to watch his antics. I mean, does he even realise what he is doing?

Talking about renegotiations while all the other EU members are planning no such thing and have repeatedly mentioned that he is either to comply or just leave all together.

Has he become so delusional into thinking he is suddenly the Emperor of the EU?

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Its a shame that the referendum is not until the next parliament. i guess though it will take time to look at the pros and cons of being a member of the EU. its a big decision for us the voters to make. so maybe the time frame is right even if its not to my liking. but the cases need to be put forward. five years seems about right.

No doubt the play on fear will be main issue in any debate, trade, jobs, etc... and this will make people think long and hard. and will give the Pro EU side a great advantage. but leaving is not a great unknown; a quote i seen today summed it up. its like standing on a burning ship (EU) worried about jumping overboard incase' incase there are sharks in the water.

There is a open letter in the times today from 56 industry and city leaders.

Business leaders give David Cameron a resounding vote of confidence today after the Prime Minister staked Britain’s EU membership on his ability to recast Europe.

A letter to The Times signed by 56 industry and City leaders has endorsed Mr Cameron’s promise of a negotiation followed by an “in-out” referendum within five years. It is “good for business and good for jobs in Britain”, they say.

they dispute criticism - repeated by Nick Clegg yesterday - that putting a question mark over Britain's role in the EU will jeoparadise investment. "we need a new relationship with the EU, backed by a democratic mandate"

i guess we'll see a counter argument to this in the coming days. the debate as begun. the battle lines drawn, let the battles begin.

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The EU will not stand for Briton Rebate V 2.0.

Then Britain will leave the EU, simple as.

As The Telegraph said yesterday, the EU can either listen to Britain's justified desire for the EU to become an open, competitive and flexible entity with a restored sense of the importance of democratic accountability and respect for the historical differences between its member states with a reduction in central control, the reversibility of EU powers and a minimal role for Brussels bureaucracy in a free single market, or Britain will leave the EU (and it doesn't need a referendum to do so).

If the EU does not want to achieve any of the above qualities then Britain should have no place in it. Britain would be better off out.

I cannot understand why some people, such as you, are against Britain trying to introduce such qualities to the EU. As Cameron said in his speech, the EU risks being left behind by upcoming economic powers like China, India and Brazil as well as by the USA and if it wants to keep pace with those countries then the EU will need to implement the reforms which Britain has outlined.

For the simple matter is that, if it doesn't, then the EU will become a third-rate economic power (if it isn't one already) being outperformed by countries such as the USA, China, India and Brazil and Britain will, quite rightly, decide it doesn't want to be a part of it anymore.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun
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A letter to The Times signed by 56 industry and City leaders has endorsed Mr Cameron’s promise of a negotiation followed by an “in-out” referendum within five years.

It is, of course, a Europhile myth that the vast majority of British business desires Britain to stay in the EU.

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How many of those people signing that letter were city business people who stand to lose a lot if their underhand business practices are curtailed by EU regulations. I suspect it represents the majority.

Br Cornelius

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How many of those people signing that letter were city business people who stand to lose a lot if their underhand business practices are curtailed by EU regulations. I suspect it represents the majority.

Br Cornelius

You really do have that Guardianista mentality of a world made up of corrupt bosses versus the down-trodden masses.

Strange then that you would deny the 'down-trodden masses' the opportunity to determine their own future, but then again you lefty liberal types are far more clever than the rest of us, thats why we had two terms of Tony Bliar & one of Gordon Brown.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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The real problem with his speech was that it was bereft of any detail.

I would like to hear from him:

1. Exactly which parts of the Treaties he wants to re-negotiate?

2. What would constitute a "successful" outcome (the people need to be able to Measure the outcome against something, even a minimum requirement to claim success)?

3. Why the negotiations are not even to begin unless and until he wins the next general Election (this will be 2+ wasted years)?

4. What does he see as the "fall-back" position if the UK exits the EU?

5. Will there be parallel negotiations during the negotiations, to join another free - trade area?

6. How will an EU exit impact on UK Citizens who are living abroad under the Right to Abode under current EU Rules - will they be compensated for any Financial Losses as a result?

7. How will a UK EU exit impact on other EU Citizens who are living in the UK under the Right to Abode under current EU Rules - will they be compensated for any Financial Losses as a result?

Edited by keithisco

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You really do have that Guardianista mentality of a world made up of corrupt bosses versus the down-trodden masses.

Strange then that you would deny the 'down-trodden masses' the opportunity to determine their own future, but then again you lefty liberal types are far more clever than the rest of us, thats why we had two terms of Tony Bliar & one of Gordon Brown.

Tony Blair was Thatcher lite - a very despicable person all together.

The only thing the labour party attempted to do in their time in office was soften the burden of Neo_liberal economics, they did this through a set of ineffective social programs. Meanwhile they continued the grand British tradition of ignoring the industrial base of the economy and favouring the spivs in the city through allowing speculative investment bubbles to create the illusion of wealth (housing mainly). Maybe its because they were drawn from the same public school boy stock as their Tory successors. Rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic whilst the investment bankers quietly board their pre-ordered lifeboats and slip away with the spoils of 3 decades of profiteering through asset stripping.

I am no fan of the Labour party over their recent history - cowards and intellectual cripples.

Do not assume I am as partizan as yourself.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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The real problem with his speech was that it was bereft of any detail.

I would like to hear from him:

1. Exactly which parts of the Treaties he wants to re-negotiate?

2. What would constitute a "successful" outcome (the people need to be able to Measure the outcome against something, even a minimum requirement to claim success)?

3. Why the negotiations are not even to begin unless and until he wins the next general Election (this will be 2+ wasted years)?

4. What does he see as the "fall-back" position if the UK exits the EU?

5. Will there be parallel negotiations during the negotiations, to join another free - trade area?

6. How will an EU exit impact on UK Citizens who are living abroad under the Right to Abode under current EU Rules - will they be compensated for any Financial Losses as a result?

7. How will a UK EU exit impact on other EU Citizens who are living in the UK under the Right to Abode under current EU Rules - will they be compensated for any Financial Losses as a result?

As for question 1 - The working time directive appears one issue he wants renegotiating on. From my view it's a fair point, we should decide in our own parliament how many hours can be worked, quite why the EU are adamant that it should be the same across he board i'm not to sure - any ideas what the thinking on this is?

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As for question 1 - The working time directive appears one issue he wants renegotiating on. From my view it's a fair point, we should decide in our own parliament how many hours can be worked, quite why the EU are adamant that it should be the same across he board i'm not to sure - any ideas what the thinking on this is?

Maybe its to protect the rights of workers who have no choice in the hours they work and who are forced into virtual sweat shop conditions.

Br Cornelius

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As for question 1 - The working time directive appears one issue he wants renegotiating on. From my view it's a fair point, we should decide in our own parliament how many hours can be worked, quite why the EU are adamant that it should be the same across he board i'm not to sure - any ideas what the thinking on this is?

What I dont understand is that the UK already has an opt - out on this directive if you are self - employed, or can set your own hours of work.then the Directive does not apply.

Personally speaking, I think 48 hrs a week is a lot of time, and this limit is there to protect people with little or no right to refuse working longer hours. What I would like to see is a mechanism whereby individuals can elect to work longer hours as long as there are national safeguards to prevent employers from taking advantage of this, by making it a condition of employment. This used to be a regular feature in the UK, if you weren't prepared to work the hours demanded then you didn't get the job.

In France, the maximum hours for working is set at 35Hrs per week, so there is no "one size fits all" argument here.

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Tony Blair was Thatcher lite - a very despicable person all together.

The only thing the labour party attempted to do in their time in office was soften the burden of Neo_liberal economics, they did this through a set of ineffective social programs. Meanwhile they continued the grand British tradition of ignoring the industrial base of the economy and favouring the spivs in the city through allowing speculative investment bubbles to create the illusion of wealth (housing mainly). Maybe its because they were drawn from the same public school boy stock as their Tory successors. Rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic whilst the investment bankers quietly board their pre-ordered lifeboats and slip away with the spoils of 3 decades of profiteering through asset stripping.

I am no fan of the Labour party over their recent history - cowards and intellectual cripples.

Do not assume I am as partizan as yourself.

Br Cornelius

Fair enough, but regarding my other point, as a champion of the down trodden masses & critic of the ruling elite, how do you reconcile leaving the decision with the ruling elite whilst denying the masses a chance to make their choice? Afterall, the people of Ireland were allowed to vote. ( admittedly when the vote went against the EU they were told to go away & do it again).

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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