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Abramelin

Valles Marineris, the result of an impact?

21 posts in this topic

Valles_Marineris_NASA_World_Wind_map_Mars.jpg

http://en.wikipedia....alles_Marineris

There's another theory about the formation of the Valles Marineris:

In summary, the following elements fit into a complete picture consistent with the hypothesis that Valles Marineris on Mars is a canyon formed by the grazing impact of a population of former moonlets of Mars:

*-There has been an excess of objects striking the Martian surface at angles of less than 15 degrees. Such an excess implies a former population of orbiting objects.

*-VM lies near the Martian equator.

*-VM is oriented parallel to the equator.

*-VM was formed from west to east; that is, in a direction prograde with respect to the planet's rotation.

*-The highest surface features in the equatorial region of Mars are the Tharsis volcanoes to the immediate west of VM.

*-Multiple parallel troughs suggest multiple moonlet impacts, or multiple fragments from one moonlet.

*-The sculpted or "wrinkle ridge" appearance inside the canyons is consistent with the roll of an irregular-shaped asteroid.

*-Phobos will follow precisely this scenario when it decays onto Mars in 40 million years.

http://metaresearch....esMarineris.asp

I wonder what that event could have done to the former atmosphere of Mars, and its water.

To give you an idea: the Chicxulub crater was formed by an object of 10 km (6 miles), similar to the size of Phobos and Deimos. Now imagine a series of similar impacts.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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What I am suggesting is that both Mars' water and atmosphere have been blasted from its surface.

The general idea is that Mars' core solidified, the magnetic field disappeared, and thus the atmosphere was no longer protected from radiation, and escaped into space, including the water.

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I had expected one of the resident geniuses would have posted their expert opinion about this, but apparently I was wrong.

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I had expected one of the resident geniuses would have posted their expert opinion about this, but apparently I was wrong.

Well it such a ridiculous idea, lacking in evidence or common-sense that it really deserved no comment.

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Posted (edited)

However as you have bumped this topic let's see how your idea fares shall we?

Instead of the normal circular or oval shape produced by normal impacts your impactor managed to gouge out a valley 4,000 km long (nearly a 5th of the way around the planet). Rather than vaporise instantly, the usual fate for impacting bodies, yours only disintegrating at the very end of a 4,000 km journey despite the enormous kinetic energy which would have been release upon initial impact.

It managed to produce a valley 200 km wide, suggesting a huge impact, but only 7 km deep.

The impactor not only managed to do this but it magically followed the curvature of Mars for the full 4,000 km.

This magic impactor, for an encore, managed to do all this with out leaving any evidence that the Valles Marineris had been subjected to great heat (you would expect the rock to melt with such a large impact) nor did it produce any ejecta which is generally associated with large impacts.

Whilst doing all of these things it managed to produce numerous side channels.

Now aren't you glad you brought this topic back from it's (merciful) early demise?

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
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I think the Tharsis Montes Volcanoes point to the real genesis of the Valles Marinaris. Tectonic. Why would anyone want to apply a totally ludicrous theory to an event that is well described in Earth Geology?

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Well it such a ridiculous idea, lacking in evidence or common-sense that it really deserved no comment.

It was nothing but an idea.

I am not defending some religion, ok?

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However as you have bumped this topic let's see how your idea fares shall we?

Instead of the normal circular or oval shape produced by normal impacts your impactor managed to gouge out a valley 4,000 km long (nearly a 5th of the way around the planet). Rather than vaporise instantly, the usual fate for impacting bodies, yours only disintegrating at the very end of a 4,000 km journey despite the enormous kinetic energy which would have been release upon initial impact.

It managed to produce a valley 200 km wide, suggesting a huge impact, but only 7 km deep.

The impactor not only managed to do this but it magically followed the curvature of Mars for the full 4,000 km.

This magic impactor, for an encore, managed to do all this with out leaving any evidence that the Valles Marineris had been subjected to great heat (you would expect the rock to melt with such a large impact) nor did it produce any ejecta which is generally associated with large impacts.

Whilst doing all of these things it managed to produce numerous side channels.

Now aren't you glad you brought this topic back from it's (merciful) early demise?

I AM glad I brought it up, and from what you posted I understand you also don't have any idea how it was formed or could have been formed.

But I am glad you tried anyway.

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However as you have bumped this topic let's see how your idea fares shall we?

Instead of the normal circular or oval shape produced by normal impacts your impactor managed to gouge out a valley 4,000 km long (nearly a 5th of the way around the planet). Rather than vaporise instantly, the usual fate for impacting bodies, yours only disintegrating at the very end of a 4,000 km journey despite the enormous kinetic energy which would have been release upon initial impact.

It managed to produce a valley 200 km wide, suggesting a huge impact, but only 7 km deep.

The impactor not only managed to do this but it magically followed the curvature of Mars for the full 4,000 km.

This magic impactor, for an encore, managed to do all this with out leaving any evidence that the Valles Marineris had been subjected to great heat (you would expect the rock to melt with such a large impact) nor did it produce any ejecta which is generally associated with large impacts.

Whilst doing all of these things it managed to produce numerous side channels.

Now aren't you glad you brought this topic back from it's (merciful) early demise?

..and lets not forget Waspie that somehow, this "impact" left the raised mountain chain in the centre of the Valles Marinaris (entirely consistent with the Mid Atlantic Ridge that we see on Earth as a result of Tectonic spreading)

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..and lets not forget Waspie that somehow, this "impact" left the raised mountain chain in the centre of the Valles Marinaris (entirely consistent with the Mid Atlantic Ridge that we see on Earth as a result of Tectonic spreading)

Any problem with that hypothesis Abramelin?

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I have no problem with any hypothesis.

But we should agree no one really knows how it was formed.

I had to tickle someone's nerve (and not necessarily Waspie's) to finally have someone respond.

Now, is that ridiculous or not?

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..and lets not forget Waspie that somehow, this "impact" left the raised mountain chain in the centre of the Valles Marinaris (entirely consistent with the Mid Atlantic Ridge that we see on Earth as a result of Tectonic spreading)

A raised mountain is not anywhere the same as a ridge running along the entire globe (Earth).

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Posted (edited)

However as you have bumped this topic let's see how your idea fares shall we?

Instead of the normal circular or oval shape produced by normal impacts your impactor managed to gouge out a valley 4,000 km long (nearly a 5th of the way around the planet). Rather than vaporise instantly, the usual fate for impacting bodies, yours only disintegrating at the very end of a 4,000 km journey despite the enormous kinetic energy which would have been release upon initial impact.

It managed to produce a valley 200 km wide, suggesting a huge impact, but only 7 km deep.

The impactor not only managed to do this but it magically followed the curvature of Mars for the full 4,000 km.

This magic impactor, for an encore, managed to do all this with out leaving any evidence that the Valles Marineris had been subjected to great heat (you would expect the rock to melt with such a large impact) nor did it produce any ejecta which is generally associated with large impacts.

Whilst doing all of these things it managed to produce numerous side channels.

Now aren't you glad you brought this topic back from it's (merciful) early demise?

The numerous side channels could have been formed much later.

It followed the curvature of Mars because it rolled and bumped along it surface for a short time. Just my idea.

We have no idea about the composition of the (huge) impactor, so we also don't know how it would have been able to carve out the valley like it maybe did.

Ejecta? How can you be sure there were not any?

They may still be floating around in the Solar System.

.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Until now, Earth was thought to be the only planet with plate tectonics. But a huge “crack” in Mars’ surface — the massive Valles Marinaris — shows evidence of the movement of huge crustal plates beneath the planet’s surface, meaning Mars may be showing the early stages of plate tectonics. This discovery can perhaps also shed light on how the plate tectonics process began here on Earth.

http://www.universetoday.com/96856/scientists-find-clues-of-plate-tectonics-on-mars/

I'm no resident genius, just thought I'd post and alternate explanation.

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http://www.universet...tonics-on-mars/

I'm no resident genius, just thought I'd post and alternate explanation.

I am not either, and what you posted/linked to is what is now believed to be the most accepted IDEA (and nothing more than that).

Btw: did you read the comments?

If it was a continental rift, where are those continents?

The idea that I linked to in the opening post is just another idea, because no one really knows what caused the formation of the Valles Marinaris.

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Posted (edited)

A raised mountain is not anywhere the same as a ridge running along the entire globe (Earth).

When you look at the image itself, then yes, there seems to be a ridge, like the Mid Atlantic Ridge on Earth:

Valles_Marineris_NASA_World_Wind_map_Mars.jpg

That is not what I would call mountain.

But I don't see any continents.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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If this is due to tectonics, shouldn't there be a complimentary subduction area somewhere on the planet?

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If this is due to tectonics, shouldn't there be a complimentary subduction area somewhere on the planet?

Yes, and very visible because there are no oceans hiding it.

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Posted (edited)

Abramelin, I found your idea most fascinating and your hypothesis quite intriguing worth discussion. As you have found out, anyone that suggests any idea here that is not "rubber stamped" by NASA, is met with...geesh, there is no evidence and lacks common sense! That is why I stopped posting here. Too many "so called" experts that ridicule and mock any idea that does not fit into their tiny brain must be stupid and not worthy of any intelligent discussion.

I think a slow impact with mars from a former moon is a great theory. Makes a lot of sense to me. Yet some here will say it is impossible because it does not fit into a normal impact caused from an object from outside Mar's orbit that is traveling at over 25,000 miles per hour. Some people here have such narrow blinders on that they have no sense of imagination, comprehension and openness to outside, different opinions.

Edited by Pyridium

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Let's see what others thought of this 'ridiculous' idea:

AMERICAN JOURNAL OF UNDERGRADUATE RESEARCH VOL. 8, NO. 1 (2009)

Deterministic Computer Simulations of Grazing Impacts on Planetary Surfaces

ABSTRACT

Many bodies in the solar system have features which could conceivably have been formed by a grazing impact with a comet or asteroid. We present the results of deterministic computer simulations of various objects striking a terrestrial planet at a grazing angle. The system is modeled using a combination of the Material Point Method (MPM) and classical planetary dynamics. The impact exhibits three distinct regimes: (i) the initial stage where rapid ejecta leaves the planet in a nearly straight line, (ii) the intermediate stage where the ejecta begins to curve in towards the planet and the trench is being created on the surface and the (iii) the long term stage where the trench is created and any paths exhibited by the ejecta are stable capture orbits. In the case of Mars, we show that a grazing impact can not only dig a trench which has the same general morphology as Valles Marineris but also can create ejecta which orbits the planet at distances comparable to those for current Martian satellites.

(...)

CONCLUSIONS

The simulations presented here show that it is possible to have a grazing impact that cuts a trench on a planetary surface whose morphology is similar to that of Valles Marineris—narrow on the ends and wider in the middle. Considering a layer of subsurface ice it is conceivable that the grazing collision would have exposed the ice layer. It also seems reasonable to think that there would be enough friction and pressure to melt the ice and spur the side wall dynamics in the trench but an equation of state (EOS) simulation, allowing phase changes in the rock and ice would be much more helpful in supporting such a notion. Moreover the simulations in this work illustrate that a grazing collision can result in debris which has stable long – term orbits about the planet reasonably consistent with those of its current satellites. Further work with larger of systems and with an EOS is certainly warranted.

http://www.ajur.uni.edu/v8n1/Massina et al pp 15-22 rev 2.pdf

However, It doesn't say this possible scenario could also be an explanation for how most of the Martian atmosphere might have disappeared.

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Posted (edited)

This is the other view:

UCLA scientist discovers plate tectonics on Mars

By Stuart Wolpert August 09, 2012

http://newsroom.ucla...ate-237303.aspx

Planetary Tectonics demonstrated by An Yin & Robin Reith

[media=]

[/media]

Yin suggests Mars has only two plates, but where are the subduction zones? On earth they are 'visible' as very deep trenches flanked by mountain ridges and volcanoes. I haven't seen anything like that on Mars.

But no one 'discovered' anything, they just had an idea that could explain the genesis of Valles Marineris.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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