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docyabut2

'Peaceful' Minoans Surprisingly Warlike

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A quibble: the presence of humans in Australia >40 KY ago argues that boats of some kind existed that long ago.

Two things work against your quibble above. One, there's nothing in the North Atlantic that's comparable to the existance of the Sunda Shelf. Much of which was above sea level at various points in the Pleistocene and early Holocene. Two, boats of "some" kind don't automatically validate Plato's mention of "triremes" which are specific naval vessels of large size and well stocked. The earliest boats found so far, really canoes, would have been pretty much useless on the open ocean as vessels of war.

cormac

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Atlantis didnt exist 10,000 years ago only it its foundation.

Plato-

no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet.

All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea

Now Atlas had a numerous and honourable family, and they retained the kingdom, the eldest son handing it on to his eldest for many generations;

I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages.

That's not what Plato wrote in Critias, to whit:

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe.

Which means it wasn't since the foundation but 9000 years since the war.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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Well comic some say - Critias stated in Timaeus the foundation, of 10,000 years, however in Critias the next day accidently repeated the war as 10,000 years before ,because he goes on stating this war was of the kings of Athens of the 15 hundreds bc..

Critias

And this is reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon

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Well comic some say - Critias stated in Timaeus the foundation, of 10,000 years, however in Critias the next day accidently repeated the war as 10,000 years before ,because he goes on stating this war was of the kings of Athens of the 15 hundreds bc..

Critias

And this is reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon

That's just it, the names changed. Not the time of the war. So no, he doesn't state the war was in the 1500's BC.

cormac

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That's just it, the names changed. Not the time of the war. So no, he doesn't state the war was in the 1500's BC.

cormac

Comic theres no doubt about it those were the Athens kings of the 1500 hundreds bc that fought in the war

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Comic theres no doubt about it those were the Athens kings of the 1500 hundreds bc that fought in the war

There was no such thing as Athens in 1500 BCE. At most there was a Mycenaean fort on what would become the Acropolis.

The actual centers of power in mainland Greece at this time were in the Peloponnese, such as at Mycenae, which is how the entire Bronze Age culture got its name.

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'kmt_sesh' qoute-

There was no such thing as Athens in 1500 BCE. At most there was a Mycenaean fort on what would become the Acropolis.

Plato-

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner. Moreover, since military pursuits were then common to men and women, the men of those days in accordance with the custom of the time set up a figure and image of the goddess in full armour, to be a testimony that all animals which associate together, male as well as female, may, if they please, practise in common the virtue which belongs to them without distinction of sex.

Now the country was inhabited in those days by various classes of citizens;-there were artisans, and there were husbandmen, and there was also a warrior class originally set apart by divine men. The latter dwelt by themselves.

http://www.classicallibrary.org/plato/dialogues/18_critias.htm

As the tale said there was no Acropolis as yet, but a class of warriors and how did Athens get its name?

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I dont think that Minoans were war like although we dont know their population. But maybe they were like Byzant.

What interesting me is were they fishermen based society?

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cormac

what do you think what could (if) caused Nile river turn into blood red? Drought? Possibly killing fish and their blood painted Nile. Algae? What algae? Maybe salt? I read once how salt made lake in France red because of iron particles in ground.

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cormac

what do you think what could (if) caused Nile river turn into blood red? Drought? Possibly killing fish and their blood painted Nile. Algae? What algae? Maybe salt? I read once how salt made lake in France red because of iron particles in ground.

Red silt deposits or a 'red tide' would turn the water blood red.

cormac

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I wonder could it be that Moses(if) put algae into Nile and wait that they spread?

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I wonder could it be that Moses(if) put algae into Nile and wait that they spread?

If he did it wouldn't have spread that fast. As to 'red tides', they do occur on their own.

cormac

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If he did it wouldn't have spread that fast. As to 'red tides', they do occur on their own.

cormac

Yes but maybe he observed process. maybe he saw that if you took barrel of red sea water (water with algae) and put it into small riverside it will take cca 2 months that they spread.

So he planed. Used math and set up a plot against Pharao.

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Yes but maybe he observed process. maybe he saw that if you took barrel of red sea water (water with algae) and put it into small riverside it will take cca 2 months that they spread.

So he planed. Used math and set up a plot against Pharao.

Since Moses' existance can't even be shown as an actual, historical figure then it's kind of pointless to be speculating on a conspiracy against the Pharaoh IMO.

cormac

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Since Moses' existance can't even be shown as an actual, historical figure then it's kind of pointless to be speculating on a conspiracy against the Pharaoh IMO.

cormac

Yes but ...lets say that he existed...Did he preform his 1st plague with help of algae?

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Yes but ...lets say that he existed...Did he preform his 1st plague with help of algae?

I hate hypotheticals. That aside, even if he existed it's possible that he saw early signs of a red tide occuring and could have speculated on the remaining plagues as a result of same. Nothing of which requires a miracle of any kind or his personal involvement.

cormac

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I hate hypotheticals. That aside, even if he existed it's possible that he saw early signs of a red tide occuring and could have speculated on the remaining plagues as a result of same. Nothing of which requires a miracle of any kind or his personal involvement.

cormac

I like hypotheticals. I wonder could algae spread in Nile...Did it ever happened in history? Can ride tide drew off frogs out of water? ...Anyway thanks.

Edited by the L

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I don`t think Moses was at the time of Atlantis 1500 bc`s but thousands of years later 1300bc`s but the plague at Amarna was the kind where people bled out of their bodies, they could have dump some bodies in the river causing the water to turn red.

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You need a lot of blood to make Nile red.

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You need a lot of blood to make Nile red.

Pharaoh's sorcerers demonstrated that they too could turn water into blood, and Pharaoh therefore made no concession to Moses' demands.

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And why are we on Moses when this tread is about the minoans and atlantis:)

Edited by docyabut2

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Why "surprisingly" warlike? Cultures that aren't warlike don't get to live in the high-rent district for very long.

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