Should Cigarettes Be Illegal?

[Iron_Lotus]

increasing the age limit is only a feel good action everyone i know who smokes when we were all under the age guess what theres hundreds of people walking around who will buy smokes for someone for a couple extra bucks in their pocket, and there always will be.

I've never understood why anyone would want to make them illegal yes they are bad for you guess what every smoker knows that and every smoker continues to smoke, why? personal choice. guess what happens when you make something illegal? you make people want it more and create a black market for it. smart choice lets have an increase in drug trade and criminal activity, make ciggarettes illegal give innocent people criminal records and lock them up costing everyone more money in the long run.

I think smokers have been more than understanding in the last ten years we cant smoke in pubs we cant smoke by doorways or public parks where kids are. what else do people want should we brand smokers too so people can spot us out and cross the street? i think enoughs been done and people who are against smoking should just shut the **** up and start worrying about more pressing issues in the world. Oh but i forgot restricting peoples personal freedoms is the norm these days i guess.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Iron_Lotus

[CrimsonKing]

increasing the age limit is only a feel good action everyone i know who smokes when we were all under the age guess what theres hundreds of people walking around who will buy smokes for someone for a couple extra bucks in their pocket, and there always will be.

I've never understood why anyone would want to make them illegal yes they are bad for you guess what every smoker knows that and every smoker continues to smoke, why? personal choice. guess what happens when you make something illegal? you make people want it more and create a black market for it. smart choice lets have an increase in drug trade and criminal activity, make ciggarettes illegal give innocent people criminal records and lock them up costing everyone more money in the long run.

I think smokers have been more than understanding in the last ten years we cant smoke in pubs we cant smoke by doorways or public parks where kids are. what else do people want should we brand smokers too so people can spot us out and cross the street? i think enoughs been done and people who are against smoking should just shut the **** up and start worrying about more pressing issues in the world. Oh but i forgot restricting peoples personal freedoms is the norm these days i guess.

Agreed man,but some people just can't wait to give away more and more of their freedoms.Some prefer the gov thinking for them and telling them what to do and how to do it.Does not matter to them if a blackmarket for said things pops up as long as the average law abiding citizen cant have it everything is good with them.

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What are the benefits of smoking cigarettes?

I just don't understand how some ppl have come to a point where they actually defend smoking.

They entwine it with freedom and personal choice ... like slowly destroying your body and annoying the hell out of everyone with unhealthy stinky smoke is something to be proud of ... like it's still cool.

Where does this come from? Completely deluded by their addiction that they'll find any excuse not to better themselves?

A complete nihilistic selfish nature where they think the world only revolves around them and no one else is affected?

They've become a pure product of marketing?

Or just a combination of the aboves.

Because face it, there is no single benefit from smoking. So why defend it?

Why misuse/abuse the meaning of freedom to defend marketing of companies that knowingly create a product that is only made for addiction and destruction. It's the sole purpose.

You don't get super healthy from it, it doesn't destress you ( because the stress the body and mind goes through to get another cigarette doesn't weigh up against the self created stress - relief you get from smoking it ... the cigarette creates the stress you need to relief and some ppl actually delude themselves into saying it's a stress reliever, ridiculous.). You don't get smarter (quite the contrary). You don't get more empathic ( definitely the contrary). Your all around fitness does not improve. Your critical thinking skills definitely don't improve, proven by the fact that you delude yourself into thinking a cigarette is worth a defence.

It comes across real junkie like to defend a thing that solely destroys.

[CrimsonKing]

What are the benefits of smoking cigarettes?

I just don't understand how some ppl have come to a point where they actually defend smoking.

They entwine it with freedom and personal choice ... like slowly destroying your body and annoying the hell out of everyone with unhealthy stinky smoke is something to be proud of ... like it's still cool.

Where does this come from? Completely deluded by their addiction that they'll find any excuse not to better themselves?

A complete nihilistic selfish nature where they think the world only revolves around them and no one else is affected?

They've become a pure product of marketing?

Or just a combination of the aboves.

Because face it, there is no single benefit from smoking. So why defend it?

Why misuse/abuse the meaning of freedom to defend marketing of companies that knowingly create a product that is only made for addiction and destruction. It's the sole purpose.

You don't get super healthy from it, it doesn't destress you ( because the stress the body and mind goes through to get another cigarette doesn't weigh up against the self created stress - relief you get from smoking it ... the cigarette creates the stress you need to relief and some ppl actually delude themselves into saying it's a stress reliever, ridiculous.). You don't get smarter (quite the contrary). You don't get more empathic ( definitely the contrary). Your all around fitness does not improve. Your critical thinking skills definitely don't improve, proven by the fact that you delude yourself into thinking a cigarette is worth a defence.

It comes across real junkie like to defend a thing that solely destroys.

You have just described a variety of things.People should not over eat,does them no good.People should not drink to much booze yet they do.People should not have the right to just say almost anything they want to.People should not do a lot of things,but we live in what was a free country.A full grown adult has the right to decide for themselves,might not always be the best idea but..........That's life!I dont need others to tell me how to live it!

This is not necessarily directed at you,just the talking heads in general.People are going to live how they want get used to it,try to ban living and you will have more problem's than you can imagine!

[CRYSiiSx2]

Seriously, U.S. citizens are being stripped from freedom little by little. When will enough be enough? And you never read how smokers rarely get alzhiemers, it's pretty much a cure for it.

[Ever Learning]

i love smoking being a previous full time smoker for 6 years, ive quit now and enjoy the occasional one with a drink.

every smoker knows its hard to quit and why not save the next generation from the cycle of being pro smoking .you cant love what you havent experienced. dont think of your addicted selfs but kids who are yet to be addicted, addiction means you cant stop doing some thing, should the smokers choice really matter when it will always be no.

maybe smoking age should go up each year with the current smokers still able to smoke and the next generation saved

[Ever Learning]

Seriously, U.S. citizens are being stripped from freedom little by little. When will enough be enough? And you never read how smokers rarely get alzhiemers, it's pretty much a cure for it.

there are better cures tho

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You have just described a variety of things.People should not over eat,does them no good.People should not drink to much booze yet they do.People should not have the right to just say almost anything they want to.People should not do a lot of things,but we live in what was a free country.A full grown adult has the right to decide for themselves,might not always be the best idea but..........That's life!I dont need others to tell me how to live it!

This is not necessarily directed at you,just the talking heads in general.People are going to live how they want get used to it,try to ban living and you will have more problem's than you can imagine!

No see, that's a distorted view.

Overeating or overdrinking has nothing to do with smoking.

Even one cigarette is damaging to the body. One portion of food is not.

Food in itself has a lot of benefits, obviously. Even fatty foods are healthy for the body, in moderation. You need fat to absorb several vitamins and is good for the elasticity of the body.

Smoking is in no degree any good....you comparisation does not hold up. That's what i mean with being deluded.

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Seriously, U.S. citizens are being stripped from freedom little by little. When will enough be enough? And you never read how smokers rarely get alzhiemers, it's pretty much a cure for it.

Study Shows Cigarette Smoking a Risk for Alzheimer's Disease

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2010/01/4356/study-shows-cigarette-smoking-risk-alzheimers-disease

Passive smoking link to dementia

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/newsevents/news/newsrecords/2013/01Jan/Passive-smoking-increases-risk-of-severe-dementia,-according-to-study-in-China.aspx

Stop deluding yourself.

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Smoking rates much higher among the mentally ill

(HealthDay)—The smoking rate for American adults with mental illness is 70 percent higher than for those without such problems, U.S. health officials reported Tuesday.

Read more at: http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-02-higher-mentally-ill.html#jCp

Maybe this is because mentally ill can be more self-righteous and delude themselves more easily.

[CRYSiiSx2]

there are better cures tho

Yeah but it's my right to choose which one.

[Jinxdom]

I wouldn't take a chemical that blunts off anger(http://www.livescience.com/7726-nicotine-takes-edge-anger.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2443944/ ) in a world where mass shootings are the norm. That just seems kind of retarded.

[Iron_Lotus]

Study Shows Cigarette Smoking a Risk for Alzheimer's Disease

http://www.ucsf.edu/...heimers-disease

Passive smoking link to dementia

http://www.kcl.ac.uk...y-in-China.aspx

Stop deluding yourself.

boo hoo ill be over here enjoying a smoke

[CrimsonKing]

No see, that's a distorted view.

Overeating or overdrinking has nothing to do with smoking.

Even one cigarette is damaging to the body. One portion of food is not.

Food in itself has a lot of benefits, obviously. Even fatty foods are healthy for the body, in moderation. You need fat to absorb several vitamins and is good for the elasticity of the body.

Smoking is in no degree any good....you comparisation does not hold up. That's what i mean with being deluded.

Ok guess im one arrogant deluded b****** when i drink haha

[+Liquid Gardens]

Smoking is in no degree any good....you comparisation does not hold up. That's what i mean with being deluded.

This is false, smoking is in some degree 'good' because it makes people feel good. Like alcohol, rollercoaster riding, going out for a leisurely scenic drive in your car, these all make you 'feel good' too, and none are without risk. Especially the last one, there are few common activities more dangerous than going for a drive, and I'd argue that going for just one drive is riskier than smoking just one cigarette.

Why misuse/abuse the meaning of freedom to defend marketing of companies that knowingly create a product that is only made for addiction and destruction. It's the sole purpose.

Please define 'the meaning of freedom' then, because your translation seems to be the exact opposite of what the term means by definition. That's your theory, 'the sole' reason people smoke is for their 'addiction and destruction'? You really need to educate yourself on the pleasurable effects of nicotine. What is the sole purpose of people drinking by the way? I didn't see anyone defending or saying much about tobacco companies, you do realize that the cigarette predates the industrial production of them I trust.

[CRYSiiSx2]

Smoking rates much higher among the mentally ill

Maybe this is because mentally ill can be more self-righteous and delude themselves more easily.

ROFL you don't think the damn Insurance people make **** and have enough resources to get laws passed, so save their asses some money? You would hate being around me, I'll keep puffing on my Marlboro in between shots of Black Velvet thank you very much.

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Whew, okay. Apparantly smoking also causes you to get your panties all up in a bunch and become an 8 year old when confronted with the actual facts and question "what is the benefit of smoking". Temper tantrum much?

And apparantly it's impossible for some ppl to think about why they want something. Is asking yourself the question "why do i want/need to smoke" so difficult?

I was just posing some freaking questions to get some insight, sheesh. Is that why everybody is getting so upset? Because you ppl don't have any insight into your own behaviour and you act out when someone confronts you with reality?

This is false, smoking is in some degree 'good' because it makes people feel good. Like alcohol, rollercoaster riding, going out for a leisurely scenic drive in your car, these all make you 'feel good' too, and none are without risk. Especially the last one, there are few common activities more dangerous than going for a drive, and I'd argue that going for just one drive is riskier than smoking just one cigarette.

Yes, i've thought about the psychological factor of "feeling good" when you smoke. But i didn't include it because as with the "stress-relief" argument it's a fallacy in itself. Because you create the worry you need to feel good about. You create the worry/stress of needing another cigarette, and having this cigarette makes you feel good. So if you remove the need for cigarette you remove the need for feeling good by the cigarette. No?

And alcohol yes, but alcohol does seem to have other benefits: Makes you more social, removes inhibitions (this can either be good or bad of course). I don't know if cigarettes have that certain effect on ppl. Do they?

Alcohol is also a disinfectant. Alcohol can help against mosquito bites. Alcohol can help relax certain muscles for singers for example. Alcohol can really help with a tootache.

Not to mention certain benefits you get from hops in beer or the benefits from red wine we've all heard and read about. Of course this is all if you drink in moderation. But that's the point, with cigarettes there is no moderation, every cigarette is damaging and there is no healthy effect at all... Do you know of any?

Edited February 11, 2013 by Render

[Einsteinium]

Whew, okay. Apparantly smoking also causes you to get your panties all up in a bunch and become an 8 year old when confronted with the actual facts and question "what is the benefit of smoking". Temper tantrum much?

And apparantly it's impossible for some ppl to think about why they want something. Is asking yourself the question "why do i want/need to smoke" so difficult?

I was just posing some freaking questions to get some insight, sheesh. Is that why everybody is getting so upset? Because you ppl don't have any insight into your own behaviour and you act out when someone confronts you with reality?

Yes, i've thought about the psychological factor of "feeling good" when you smoke. But i didn't include it because as with the "stress-relief" argument it's a fallacy in itself. Because you create the worry you need to feel good about. You create the worry/stress of needing another cigarette, and having this cigarette makes you feel good. So if you remove the need for cigarette you remove the need for feeling good by the cigarette. No?

And alcohol yes, but alcohol does seem to have other benefits: Makes you more social, removes inhibitions (this can either be good or bad of course). I don't know if cigarettes have that certain effect on ppl. Do they?

Alcohol is also a disinfectant. Alcohol can help against mosquito bites. Alcohol can help relax certain muscles for singers for example. Alcohol can really help with a tootache.

Not to mention certain benefits you get from hops in beer or the benefits from red wine we've all heard and read about. Of course this is all if you drink in moderation. But that's the point, with cigarettes there is no moderation, every cigarette is damaging and there is no healthy effect at all... Do you know of any?

Are you familiar with the concept in economics called utility? Smoking indeed makes people feel a certain amount of stress relief (although temporary) and pleasure. Some people experience this to a greater degree than others. I can think of a healthy effect, smoking keeps mosquitoes away from you. And did you know? Mosquitoes kill more people than cigarettes by transmitting diseases.

That being said you are right that cigarette smoke is bad for you in pretty much any quantity. There are many things that are bad for you in pretty much any quantity, I am quite certain that drinking any amount of drain cleaner is probably bad for you, but people do not do that. Why? Because it would make them feel like crap/sick. Cigarettes make you feel pleasure. That is why people use them, and that is in and of itself a positive effect. If there was no positive effect to be had, then nobody would smoke. This is the concept of utility in economic theory, things give you utility (take care of some want/need) but most people have limited resources to take care of all their wants/desires. So someone might not buy a new pair of shoes instead they might buy a carton of cigarettes. In economic theory they buy the cigarettes because they see it as giving them more utility at that time than the shoes. However, there is a law of diminishing marginal utility that states that each successive carton of cigarettes will have less utility than the one before it. So people tend to maximize the utility by spending money on things that give them the greatest perceived utility at that point in time.

Make cigarettes illegal and you only make criminals richer. Is that what you want? Another in demand product to be smuggled and sold on the black market, funneling more money to organized crime and opening up a new market to the Mexican drug cartels- that is what would happen. Make no mistake about it.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Einsteinium

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Are you familiar with the concept in economics called utility? Smoking indeed makes people feel a certain amount of stress relief (although temporary) and pleasure. Some people experience this to a greater degree than others. I can think of a healthy effect, smoking keeps mosquitoes away from you. And did you know? Mosquitoes kill more people than cigarettes by transmitting diseases.

That being said you are right that cigarette smoke is bad for you in pretty much any quantity. There are many things that are bad for you in pretty much any quantity, I am quite certain that drinking any amount of drain cleaner is probably bad for you, but people do not do that. Why? Because it would make them feel like crap/sick. Cigarettes make you feel pleasure. That is why people use them, and that is in and of itself a positive effect. If there was no positive effect to be had, then nobody would smoke. This is the concept of utility in economic theory, things give you utility (take care of some want/need) but most people have limited resources to take care of all their wants/desires. So someone might not buy a new pair of shoes instead they might buy a carton of cigarettes. In economic theory they buy the cigarettes because they see it as giving them more utility at that time than the shoes. However, there is a law of diminishing marginal utility that states that each successive carton of cigarettes will have less utility than the one before it. So people tend to maximize the utility by spending money on things that give them the greatest perceived utility at that point in time.

Make cigarettes illegal and you only make criminals richer. Is that what you want? Another in demand product to be smuggled and sold on the black market, funneling more money to organized crime and opening up a new market to the Mexican drug cartels- that is what would happen. Make no mistake about it.

Yeah i get it, it gives you a sense of utility. But i struggle again with comparison of shoes with a cigarette. Shoes have a purpose, they help you walk and can help with your image etc..

If you buy a lottery ticket there is the chance of money.

If you drink alcohol, the previous list applies.

And so on...

What is so special about a cigarette that it deserves all this defending??

"it makes you feel good" ... so that's saying that the only thing what a cigarette gives is an addiction and a chronic temporary relief this addiction creates. In the mean time it completely destroys your own body and everybody elses who inhales the second hand smoke.

Again i fail to see why this deserves defending.

Cigarettes don't appear to be any better than a common streetdrug, and even drugs can be said to offer more benefits. Like coping with a trauma or whatever. Cigarettes offers nothing...seriously nothing. Right?

Why defend such a thing and put it in the same category as a shoe or food or freedom and personal choice.

If smokers see someone shooting up drugs, is their first response "good on him, enjoying his freedom and personal choice" .. or "well that's kinda pathetic". Im pretty sure it's the second one, you all might deny it because you're well, addicted and your judgement is obviously clouded.

Still....

[Iron_Lotus]

edit: i get an overwhelming feeling of joy seeing people support alcohol but demonize smoking. funny stuff. pathetic but funny nontheless. i also find it humourous that you think people are getting their panties in a bunch over your posts.. i'll speak for myself and tell you that your posts have raised no anger or frustration from me, in fact im completely indifferent and uncaring to much of what you have posted choosing to instead skim through and shrug off the bulk of your whining.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Iron_Lotus

[+Liquid Gardens]

I was just posing some freaking questions to get some insight, sheesh. Is that why everybody is getting so upset? Because you ppl don't have any insight into your own behaviour and you act out when someone confronts you with reality?

What Iron Lotus said on this. Don't take disagreement as being 'upset'.

Yes, i've thought about the psychological factor of "feeling good" when you smoke. But i didn't include it because as with the "stress-relief" argument it's a fallacy in itself. Because you create the worry you need to feel good about. You create the worry/stress of needing another cigarette, and having this cigarette makes you feel good. So if you remove the need for cigarette you remove the need for feeling good by the cigarette. No?

No. That is too simplistic. I don't smoke cigarettes, do you? Do you know personally what it's like? I've read about nicotine of course and talked to smokers, and I know what you are talking about, you are referring to the fact that some of the pleasure addicted smokers feel is the relief from the displeasure of the addictive cravings themselves. That sounds logical. What isn't though is to assume that 1) that is the only pleasure they are deriving from it and 2) all smokers are alike and thoroughly addicted. People smoke because it gives them a buzz. I've heard it's relaxing but it's also a stimulant, but I haven't smoked tobacco enough to fully feel or ascertain the buzz. Regardless, I'd never presume how much of the pleasure they get from it is merely a relief from the addiction, I'm not them.

And alcohol yes, but alcohol does seem to have other benefits: Makes you more social, removes inhibitions (this can either be good or bad of course). I don't know if cigarettes have that certain effect on ppl. Do they?

Alcohol is also a disinfectant. Alcohol can help against mosquito bites. Alcohol can help relax certain muscles for singers for example. Alcohol can really help with a tootache.

Not to mention certain benefits you get from hops in beer or the benefits from red wine we've all heard and read about. Of course this is all if you drink in moderation. But that's the point, with cigarettes there is no moderation, every cigarette is damaging and there is no healthy effect at all... Do you know of any?

Okay, interesting enough, since you're going to cast the net far afield and include alcohol's use as a disinfectant. A quick search turns up:

- smoking reduces the risk of knee replacement surgery

- smoking lowers the risk of Parkinson's

- smoking lowers the risk of obesity

- smoking can reduce the risk in women of uterine fibroids

[CrimsonKing]

Whew, okay. Apparantly smoking also causes you to get your panties all up in a bunch and become an 8 year old when confronted with the actual facts and question "what is the benefit of smoking". Temper tantrum much?

And apparantly it's impossible for some ppl to think about why they want something. Is asking yourself the question "why do i want/need to smoke" so difficult?

I was just posing some freaking questions to get some insight, sheesh. Is that why everybody is getting so upset? Because you ppl don't have any insight into your own behaviour and you act out when someone confronts you with reality?

Yes, i've thought about the psychological factor of "feeling good" when you smoke. But i didn't include it because as with the "stress-relief" argument it's a fallacy in itself. Because you create the worry you need to feel good about. You create the worry/stress of needing another cigarette, and having this cigarette makes you feel good. So if you remove the need for cigarette you remove the need for feeling good by the cigarette. No?

And alcohol yes, but alcohol does seem to have other benefits: Makes you more social, removes inhibitions (this can either be good or bad of course). I don't know if cigarettes have that certain effect on ppl. Do they?

Alcohol is also a disinfectant. Alcohol can help against mosquito bites. Alcohol can help relax certain muscles for singers for example. Alcohol can really help with a tootache.

Not to mention certain benefits you get from hops in beer or the benefits from red wine we've all heard and read about. Of course this is all if you drink in moderation. But that's the point, with cigarettes there is no moderation, every cigarette is damaging and there is no healthy effect at all... Do you know of any?

Nope no tantrum at all,only smoke when i drink.I'm a adult,i pay for my insurance i should be able to do anything reasonable that doesnt hurt others whenever i so choose.

[CrimsonKing]

edit: i get an overwhelming feeling of joy seeing people support alcohol but demonize smoking. funny stuff. pathetic but funny nontheless. i also find it humourous that you think people are getting their panties in a bunch over your posts.. i'll speak for myself and tell you that your posts have raised no anger or frustration from me, in fact im completely indifferent and uncaring to much of what you have posted choosing to instead skim through and shrug off the bulk of your whining.

Had to like this,lebron playing the world's smallest violin lmao

[+DieChecker]

A proposed law in Oregon? First I've heard of it.

It will never get anywhere. The Liberal Urban Poor, who control the Oregon government through their shear voting mass love to smoke and so I predict that this law will never get anywhere.

Smoking is bad for you, but so are a lot of things... legal things. Maybe what is needed is more powerful cigs. So those that smoke kill themselves faster?

[psyche101]

I remember them proposing something very similar, very recently here down under, in Tasmania. It was for anyone born after the year 2000. They are still trying to get it up and running for 2018. Dam foolish suggestion.

LINK