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Yamato

Rifles, Shotguns, and Pistols?!

64 posts in this topic

Oh my!

When I was nine or 10, my best friend and I were upstairs in his house playing dutifully with our Legos when we heard a loud noise downstairs. It was an extremely rare circumstance for us to be left home alone because of our age, but his parents were gone that night and the house was empty except for us. Thinking it might be a break-in, we ran down the hall into a back bedroom and climbed out the window onto his porch roof. After sitting there for several minutes debating what to do next, we decided to go back in and call my house, which was in another neighborhood but only several hundred feet away. I reached my dad on the phone who promptly came to the rescue, with a spare key my friend's parents gave him, and a shotgun. It turned out nobody was in the house, and we never identified what the noise was. But I'll never forget how proud I felt of my dad that night when I saw him in the foyer from the top of the stairs.

He didn't helplessly sit on his hands, able to do nothing else but call the police, in effect wasting their resources when there was no reason for them to come out, he took action and he defended his family himself, because he had the ability to do so. The police stayed free that night to attend to more important matters. Maybe even a life was saved.

When we consign ourselves to a collective unwillingness or inability to protect ourselves, we must rely utterly on the police to protect us, taxing them unnecessarily, unwittingly promoting a police-state with bigger departments, greater consumption of resources, and a needless drain on tax revenue that could be deployed to other areas of greater need instead.

Self defense is about so much more than defending ourselves from tyranny. it's about defending ourselves from crime too. Whether assault, burglary, rape, carjacking, kidnapping, murder, or any other violent crime, guns are the great equalizer. A woman packing heat doesn't care how much physically stronger her assailant is compared to herself. By bearing arms, she nullifies that advantage and ensures she's in a position to save her own life or that of her loved ones.

There's always some horrible back-story that frames every discussion we have about guns, and it causes people to subconsciously form a negative association with guns in their minds, especially when they don't know anything else about them due to lack of experience, and it prevents them from even thinking about guns without thinking about some tragedy. That itself, is tragic to me.

So, after all of the smarmy self-aggrandizing political correctness exhibited by Piers Morgan and other celebrities, I've decided to buy a new rifle designed for long range accuracy and reliability, and would like some advice from the community about your experiences with rifles to give me greater insight in making a purchase that's right for me. People with no experience with guns, who weren't lucky enough to grow up with guns to learn the joy of gun ownership, or ever take the time out to familiarize themselves with guns can take a break from the same old repetition as there's no sensational media event driving this discussion.

Here's a photo with a lineup of some of the most popular rifle ammunition on the left. I don't want to get a scary looking gun that frightens Obama lovers, i.e. a black plastic gun with wimpy bullets and a cheap magazine prone to jamming. I'm interested in a much more powerful weapon that also isn't generating any media buzz about getting banned. At this moment I'm considering a $900 Browning .270 but if anyone has any other strong beliefs about other brands/cartridges from personal experience, or that of people you're close to, I'd love to hear about it as it might influence my purchase decision. This firearm will need to last a lifetime, for purposes of outdoor survival, target shooting, and/or self defense. Thanks!

Bulletcollection.jpg

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The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

Mencken perceived the government MO nearly a century ago. :cry:

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But I'll never forget how proud I felt of my dad that night when I saw him in the foyer from the top of the stairs.

When we consign ourselves to a collective unwillingness or inability to protect ourselves

I will first say that i fully understand what you father did and if i were living in a country were guns were the normal way of defending yourself, then I too would have/need one.

But, may i point out that just because your father had a gun, makes him no more of a hero than OUR fathers without a gun. Many a father over this side of the waters have been seen as a hero in their childs eyes because they battered the s*** out of the man who dared threatened his family, and no gun was needed.

At lot of us do not rely on the police to do our fighting for us, and we most certainly do have the ability to protect ourselves without relying on a gun.

But do not get me wrong, I do understand those who have guns over there.

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But I'll never forget how proud I felt of my dad that night when I saw him in the foyer from the top of the stairs.

When we consign ourselves to a collective unwillingness or inability to protect ourselves

I will first say that i fully understand what you father did and if i were living in a country were guns were the normal way of defending yourself, then I too would have/need one.

But, may i point out that just because your father had a gun, makes him no more of a hero than OUR fathers without a gun. Many a father over this side of the waters have been seen as a hero in their childs eyes because they battered the s*** out of the man who dared threatened his family, and no gun was needed.

At lot of us do not rely on the police to do our fighting for us, and we most certainly do have the ability to protect ourselves without relying on a gun.

But do not get me wrong, I do understand those who have guns over there.

i fight with my hands all the time, and it gives me a real perspective on defense. even though i am confident i will be able to handle myself in any situation i know that a gun can cause fear in a man that a fist cant, which could lead to no one being hurt at all.

all that said i still am in no hurry to own one ( not like my gf would let me though -.-)

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When the world makes a history out of hand-fighters freeing the world from tyrants and criminals, it won't need guns. In the meantime, we can watch works of fiction like 'Enter the Dragon', and dream. Until that fantastical time in world history occurs, what my dad did with his gun was defensive and honorable. What our governments do with their guns is offensive and horrific. Therefore, we will arm ourselves in defense. And what that means is, we don't get in gunfights "all the time". In fact, when we take reasonable steps to defend ourselves, we probably never will. Only people who go around looking for fights will frequently find what they were looking for.

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When the world makes a history out of hand-fighters freeing the world from tyrants and criminals, it won't need guns. In the meantime, we can watch works of fiction like 'Enter the Dragon', and dream. Until that fantastical time in world history occurs, what my dad did with his gun was defensive and honorable. What our governments do with their guns is offensive and horrific. Therefore, we will arm ourselves in defense. And what that means is, we don't get in gunfights "all the time". In fact, when we take reasonable steps to defend ourselves, we probably never will. Only people who go around looking for fights will frequently find what they were looking for.

i can not see how any man can tell another not to have a gun, when he has one himself. eg government.

Our police do not carry guns here, but if they did, they know that so would an awful lot of civilians, criminal or not.

I am anti guns and that goes out to our police force having them too, but, if it were not an option, then it would be rather stupid to be walking around unarmed if in an area where criminals all have guns. I do not see why I would need a gun in a friendly neighborhood..

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Talking about heros without guns, theres a good post on exactly that now, and the robber was armed!

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For home protection, Handguns are perfect or shotguns. While rifles are generally used for target practicing and hunting. Each gun has its role, but some are better than others. If you decide for a pistol, you might need to practice a lot, because it has a shorter barrel which means less accuracy. While a shotgun really doesn't need to aim, it peppers the target. Another thing about rifles, bigger the caliber of bullet, the slow the rate it travels. So in other words, you will need a longer barrel and it has more kickback to improve the range and accuracy.

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Talking about heros without guns, theres a good post on exactly that now, and the robber was armed!

It was a fake gun.

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It was a fake gun.

So what? read the post above.

I have said if I lived in a America the chances are I would have a gun because most people do, here more than most people do not. But this has all been covered on the other threads.

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So what? read the post above.

I have said if I lived in a America the chances are I would have a gun because most people do, here more than most people do not. But this has all been covered on the other threads.

So what??? Are you kidding me? An overzealous group of men killed a man who had a fake gun and was no threat to them at all. How barbaric.

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So what??? Are you kidding me? An overzealous group of men killed a man who had a fake gun and was no threat to them at all. How barbaric.

They did not know it was fake at the time and NO, they did not kill him deliberately. They were defending themselves, you for one should know how that works! thats the reason why you have guns isn`t it, to use them if needed to defend yourselves, we do not have guns so use other means.

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They did not know it was fake at the time and NO, they did not kill him deliberately. They were defending themselves, you for one should know how that works! thats the reason why you have guns isn`t it, to use them if needed to defend yourselves, we do not have guns so use other means.

You don't know whether it was deliberate or not. Dead is still dead and most children in the US could tell if it was a fake gun that close up. I can guarantee whoever got that gun away from him knew it wasn't a real gun and brute force enough to kill him was not needed.

Edited by Michelle

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You don't know whether it was deliberate or not. Dead is still dead and most children in the US could tell if it was a fake gun that close up. I can guarantee whoever got that gun away from him knew it wasn't a real gun and brute force enough to kill him was not needed.

"Ch Insp Drummond-Smith added: "We have recovered a firearm of sorts, it hasn't been fully examined yet so I'm unable to confirm whether its a replica or a genuine firearm."

if the police could not tell then how could people who are not used to seeing guns? You have no idea if they knew it was fake or not.

Anyway, why are we discussing this on this thread, I only pointed out the other thread as an example.

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It turned out nobody was in the house, and we never identified what the noise was.

Turns out, you're paranoid about noises. This was much ado about nothing at all.

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"Ch Insp Drummond-Smith added: "We have recovered a firearm of sorts, it hasn't been fully examined yet so I'm unable to confirm whether its a replica or a genuine firearm."

if the police could not tell then how could people who are not used to seeing guns? You have no idea if they knew it was fake or not.

Anyway, why are we discussing this on this thread, I only pointed out the other thread as an example.

I believe that is why we are discussing it...because you brought it up as a prime example of why you don't need guns and how brave and sanctimonious you all are.

It sounds like the facts are still coming out about the gun. Maybe the press is like you and don't want to point out the heinous actions of their fellow countrymen.

Stay on your soapbox and I'll ignore you from now on. :tu:

Edited by Michelle

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I believe that is why we are discussing it...because you brought it up as a prime example of why you don't need guns.

It sounds like the facts are still coming out about the gun. Maybe the press is like you and don't want to point out the heinous actions of their fellow countrymen.

You actually make me laugh, you say heinous actions for a community who defended themselves and yet you are all up for carrying a gun and using it to defend yourself.

Both actions lead to the same thing but in completely different ways. There is far more chance of killing someone when you have a gun in your hand and are scared out of your wits, to pinning a man down who is wearing a gas mask, thats just bad luck for him, they did not intend to kill him and he would have survived had he not had the gas mask on. at the end of the day, a gas mask is a lot different to a balaclava.

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You actually make me laugh, you say heinous actions for a community who defended themselves and yet you are all up for carrying a gun and using it to defend yourself.

Both actions lead to the same thing but in completely different ways. There is far more chance of killing someone when you have a gun in your hand and are scared out of your wits, to pinning a man down who is wearing a gas mask, thats just bad luck for him, they did not intend to kill him and he would have survived had he not had the gas mask on. at the end of the day, a gas mask is a lot different to a balaclava.

Even most cops here have never had to shoot anyone. But, you are right....it takes a lot longer to kill someone and much more time to reason through a situation when they are holding a man down to the point he dies, whereas a gunshot is an instantaneous reaction to an immediate danger.

Edited by Michelle
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There are few replicas over here that might fool me,except maybe the de-activated ones.But there again I'm used to handguns, having had several of my own for many years until they were banned a few years back.(I was a registered member of a gun club)

The average bloke over here wouldn't know the difference until it was shown to him.The cops comments were a typical non committal answer for the press.How the bloke died we don't know yet,but probably from asphyxiation with several guys sitting on him.The inquest will decide.

This whole American gun thing can't really be commented on from over here.The majority here have never been in the position where it's the norm to own or carry one like in the States. Even with strict registration there would be millions not accounted for after so many years.

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Turns out, you're paranoid about noises. This was much ado about nothing at all.

Oh, an insult! Hindsight is so 20/20.

And what would you have done at nine years old? Flown your Lego spacecraft downstairs to investigate? Stayed in the room and continued playing? At least we moved to a safe location and thought about our next move from there. Which included jumping off the roof and going to my house, going back in the house to investigate ourselves, or going back in the house to call my parents. We chose the third option. What harm was done by what we chose to do, child counselor? Would you have berated your son for being paranoid in this scenario?

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Oh, an insult! Hindsight is so 20/20.

And what would you have done at nine years old? Flown your Lego spacecraft downstairs to investigate? Stayed in the room and continued playing? At least we moved to a safe location and thought about our next move from there. Which included jumping off the roof and going to my house, going back in the house to investigate ourselves, or going back in the house to call my parents. We chose the third option. What harm was done by what we chose to do, child counselor? Would you have berated your son for being paranoid in this scenario?

I can relate, Yamato. A friend of mine and I were home alone one night and we heard a noise at one of the windows. We tried to put it down to imagination or the bush brushing against it, but after a few minutes we realized it wasn't either one. Even though I knew where the guns were in the house, and had access to them, I called the next door neighbor to come over and investigate. Apparently, he scared whoever it was off, because the storm window and screen had been taken off the window and there were pry marks on the window sill.

Either way, I'm glad we didn't have to bother the police.

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No offense but it doesn't matter if the individual bothers the police or not. Believe me, they collect taxes far more often then saving lives. What matters is acting upon your fears rationally and making smart decisions. When you are ready you will call. The first course of action should be protecting yourself in the best ability possible. If this decision involves bolting out a window and getting the **** outta there, as Yam did, then it effectively removed the individual from danger.

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No offense but it doesn't matter if the individual bothers the police or not. Believe me, they collect taxes far more often then saving lives. What matters is acting upon your fears rationally and making smart decisions. When you are ready you will call. The first course of action should be protecting yourself in the best ability possible. If this decision involves bolting out a window and getting the **** outta there, as Yam did, then it effectively removed the individual from danger.

That is one of the first things they teach you in a gun training course..if you have an exit, take it! The average person's instinct is to hunker down in the safest place possible in their house. I feel bad for people that can be trapped inside their homes...we cannot.

I'm slightly worried someone would be at the other door, but I also know they would be at my mercy, because I'm not going to go out empty handed. But, I would have to justify killing someone outside of my house if need be.

You have to keep these things in mind when you have a dangerous weapon at hand.

Edited by Michelle
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That is one of the first things they teach you in a gun training course..if you have an exit, take it! The average person's instinct is to hunker down in the safest place possible in their house. I feel bad for people that can be trapped inside their homes...we cannot.

I'm slightly worried someone would be at the other door, but I also know they would be at my mercy, because I'm not going to go out empty handed.

And it is a very smart lesson being taught, because if you stay your ground and shot the intruder, the cops can sometimes throw the books at you regardless if you are defending your home or your family. It happens, which is extremely sad, they are there to protect and serve us citizens, not the criminals who infringe upon other's rights.

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And it is a very smart lesson being taught, because if you stay your ground and shot the intruder, the cops can sometimes throw the books at you regardless if you are defending your home or your family. It happens, which is extremely sad, they are there to protect and serve us citizens, not the criminals who infringe upon other's rights.

Yeah... excessive force.

When the State becomes strong those who serve it become stronger in their positions of power. It invites criminal activity.

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