No one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer

[AsteroidX]

Thank You for the word of caution Frank. No one wants violence. It is only if it thrust upon us we will have to respond.

[Beckys_Mom]

Thats normal MoM. Not everyone is gonna pick up a gun and play Planet of the Apes. There civilians. Its perfectly normal.

The bit that gets me is - If you believe in god you're a thereat . What a load of codswallop... Lets use as much violence as we can because the lord Jesus preached it is the only answer.. That sounds so clever, its a stone throw away from being like the WBC or worse

This has nothing to do with god, it has a lot to do with people looking to stand up for their rights against a government that may take away their rights... <--- That is all I can see is fair...

[AsteroidX]

The bit that gets me is - If you believe in god you're a thereat . What a load of codswallop... Lets use as much violence as we can because the lord Jesus preached it is the only answer.. That sounds so clever, its a stone throw away from being like the WBC or worse

This has nothing to do with god, it has a lot to do with people looking to stand up for their rights against a government that may take away their rights... <--- That is all I can see is fair...

Absolutely correct to how I feel as well. Even the codswallop part.

I believe Ravenhawk is saying God is on our side.

Edited January 30, 2013 by AsteroidX

[Frank Merton]

It was not a word of caution: it was an effort at inserting reality. The good guys end up dead in real life, although only sometimes in the movies. In fiction violence is the solution; in real life it is the problem.

[Beckys_Mom]

Absolutely correct to how I feel as well. Even the codswallop part.

I believe Ravenhawk is saying God is on our side.

God is on the side of those that wish to stay away from hard violence too .. .

[BiffSplitkins]

What happens if you run into a Sasquatch while hunting deer? You're going to need those 10 bullets then.

[questionmark]

What happens if you run into a Sasquatch while hunting deer? You're going to need those 10 bullets then.

Besides the fact that is highly unlikely to run into an imaginary critter, even if you do, a bazooka won't help.

[Frank Merton]

It might be a bear.

[questionmark]

It might be a bear.

Then you are screwed if you are toting around a castrated AR. Most likely will just make him p***ed.

[Frank Merton]

I love North American bears; they are good reason to carry around a bazooka. The bears in Asia are not.

[WoIverine]

no one needs a 6000lb suv, to get around, they are dangerous in crashes, a 5000sqft house, also no one needs, ppl live for years in 8x12 cells, and 30 pairs of shoes??? why support slave labour in china, that makes these shoes??

actually it takes 1 (one) bullet to kill deer.

bears and javelines however will tear you to shreads if you don't kill them with 1 shot and p*** them off, even 20 might not be enough when hurt angry javeline\bear goes at you.

Javelines? Like the throwing kind? Never heard of an animal called a "javeline" before.

[RavenHawk]

That ones a little iffy to me as there was to be no standing army at the time. So its hard to tell what they would have said in regards to that.

It doesn't need to be a standing army. The Declaration of Independence gives us the Right to cast off a tyrannical government. It doesn't restrict by what means. I'm sure that they would agree. That's why the 2nd is 2nd and the 3rd follows which the reason for it is kind of misunderstood today. It subordinates military authority to civilian control and safeguards against abuses that can be perpetrated by standing armies and professional soldiers. This undoubtedly led to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 but that was more of an understanding between the people and the military rather than a law. But the 3rd is a companion to the 2nd which would indicate something more than having a Right to hunt or personal defense.

Congress has the Right to raise an army for no more than a two year period. That is why we have a Defense Appropriation bill every two years to "renew" the contract. Some of the Founding Fathers did want a standing army but others thought that a militia would be able to meet our needs. But as it turns out, it was not sufficient. The Constitution leaves it open as to what organization is used for the Common Defense. Now I've talked about the period from 1783 to 1815 many times which established the need for a standing army. When Harmar & St Clair were defeated in 1790 & 91, Washington tasked General Wayne to establish the Legion of the United States. Which was a rebuilding of a standing army and of which our current military is based on today. Wayne then defeated the Indian forces and opened up the Old North West and allowed Jefferson to send out Lewis and Clark. Wayne's actions triggered Manifest Destiny. The standing army is an integral part of our history.

[RavenHawk]

Who wants to pass the hat around for a few cruise missiles?

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not. And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device. But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

[aztek]

Javelines? Like the throwing kind? Never heard of an animal called a "javeline" before.

lol, my mistake, i spelled it wrong, it is javelinah. a wild pig.

http://www.javelinahunter.com/images/Pig1.jpg

[questionmark]

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not. And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device. But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

And leave the trigger for the system on the nightstand... locking it up would be "horrible gun control"

[questionmark]

lol, my mistake, i spelled it wrong, it is javelinah. a wild pig.

http://www.javelinah...images/Pig1.jpg

I don't know what kind of boars you are talking about, but the average American wild hog can be killed with an airgun:

[aztek]

I dont live in a plywood and cardboard house. Im not far from a cardboard box but I digress. Id get in contact with your real estate agent because if you paid more then 217$ for that house you paid too much.

neither do i, mine is reinforced concrette, but most amercans do, plywood and sheetrock with vinyl siding, .223 will go thru few such wall no problem, not to mention 7.62x39.

[AsteroidX]

Congress has the Right to raise an army for no more than a two year period. That is why we have a Defense Appropriation bill every two years to "renew" the contract. Some of the Founding Fathers did want a standing army but others thought that a militia would be able to meet our needs. But as it turns out, it was not sufficient. The Constitution leaves it open as to what organization is used for the Common Defense. Now I've talked about the period from 1783 to 1815 many times which established the need for a standing army. When Harmar & St Clair were defeated in 1790 & 91, Washington tasked General Wayne to establish the Legion of the United States. Which was a rebuilding of a standing army and of which our current military is based on today. Wayne then defeated the Indian forces and opened up the Old North West and allowed Jefferson to send out Lewis and Clark. Wayne's actions triggered Manifest Destiny. The standing army is an integral part of our history.

prior to this there was quite the bit of opposition to a standing army. Im not certain what the eventual push was to creating it but piracy certainly played a role.

Foreign policy

Even after peace had been achieved in 1783, the weakness of the Confederation government frustrated the ability of the government to conduct foreign policy. In 1789, Thomas Jefferson, concerned over the failure to fund an American naval force to confront the Barbary pirates, wrote to James Monroe, "It will be said there is no money in the treasury. There never will be money in the treasury till the Confederacy shows its teeth. The states must see the rod.”^[21]

Furthermore, the Jay–Gardoqui Treaty with Spain in 1789 also showed weakness in foreign policy. In this treaty — which was never ratified due to its immense unpopularity — the United States was to give up rights to use the Mississippi River for 25 years, which would have economically strangled the settlers west of the Appalachian Mountains. Finally, due to the Confederation's military weakness, it could not compel the British army to leave frontier forts which were on American soil — forts which, in 1783, the British promised to leave, but which they delayed leaving pending U.S. implementation of other provisions such as ending action against Loyalists and allowing them to seek compensation. This incomplete British implementation of the Treaty of Paris (1783) was superseded by the implementation of Jay's Treaty in 1795 under the new U.S. Constitution.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

[aztek]

I don't know what kind of boars you are talking about, but the average American wild hog can be killed with an airgun:

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lol. don't show your ignorance, air guns that take wild pigs are not .177 airgun you buy at walmart, you need ,357, or bigger caliber. they are more lethal than .22 rifles.

so what was your point???

Edited January 30, 2013 by aztek

[Corp]

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not. And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device. But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

...you want private citizens to have access to nukes?

Anyway as with most matters surrounding the gun control debate this is just still. There's talk of limiting the size of the mag, not the total number of bullets one person can own. I don't see how this over the top talk is helping anything. Just makes the US seems like a dictatorship filled with violent criminals, and the US is a much better country than that. When your opponents go crazy you should let them, not try to match their crazy.

On the issue of having a standing army I think seeing how useless the militia were in the War of 1812 helped drive home that a regular standing army was needed.

[questionmark]

lol. don't show your ignorance, air guns that take wild pigs are not .177 airgun you buy at walmart, you need ,357, or bigger caliber. they are more lethal than .22 rifles.

Ehm, yes... and they have a muzzle velocity much lower than any of those castrated ARs, therefore a much lower penetrating punch. So your point is...?

[aztek]

Ehm, yes... and they have a muzzle velocity much lower than any of those castrated ARs, therefore a much lower penetrating punch. So your point is...?

so?? their bullets weigh a lot more than ar bullet. brush up on your high school physics klnowlege, than learn thing or two about hunting. may be than i will stop seeing you as a clown, otoh, pbly not.

oh, btw. my point that you have no idea what you talking about. and the fact that certain air rifles can take a wild pig has absolutely no relavance in this thread.

Edited January 30, 2013 by aztek

[RavenHawk]

We got the criminals too.

http://www.earlyamer....com/publishing

We were the first Botany Bay. They were called indentured servants. After a period of say, 7 years servitude, they gained their freedom. But that's how the Crown saw the Colonies as a whole, as low lifes. Very much like the current Administration does.

[AsteroidX]

We were the first Botany Bay. They were called indentured servants. After a period of say, 7 years servitude, they gained their freedom. But that's how the Crown saw the Colonies as a whole, as low lifes. Very much like the current Administration does.

They liked to use the word apprentice when expressing a white mans slavery as it ended after a period of time. I agree with that and it is our real history.

[questionmark]

so?? their bullets weigh a lot more than ar bullet. brush up on your high school physics klnowlege, than learn thing or two about hunting. may be than i will stop seeing you as a clown, otoh, pbly not.

oh, btw. my point that you have no idea what you talking about. and the fact that certain air rifles can take a wild pig has absolutely no relavance in this thread.

See, and now we have somebody who pretends he knows something not knowing what he is talking about. First rule of ballistics: " The impact power is composed of the product of the bullet speed and weight". An AR with its muzzle velocity of over 2000 feet and a caliber 2/3 to that Ranger will on any day beat it in impact strength and penetration given the fact that the Ranger has a velocity of less than 700 feet.

And the fact that an air rifle can take out a pig is relevant, especially in that video, as the guy killed it with 1 shot.

Anybody who needs ten to do the same thing should get indicted under cruelty to animal laws.

Edit, wrong word

Edited January 30, 2013 by questionmark