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Liquid Gardens

Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?

310 posts in this topic

Crikey is awfully ignorant of human history. How are these for non-christian timelines?

http://ancienthistor...st_my_sumer.htm

http://www.travelchi...story/index.htm

http://humanorigins....ine-interactive

Edited by Rlyeh
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uggg the base of spiritual beleifs us not wishful thinking. for some it certainly is, but religions usually start with the spiritual expereinces of a person, then possibly others, and then we have indoctrination. The " wishful thinking" argumant has no basis in reality and is.....well....wishful thinking.

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uggg the base of spiritual beleifs us not wishful thinking. for some it certainly is, but religions usually start with the spiritual expereinces of a person, then possibly others, and then we have indoctrination. The " wishful thinking" argumant has no basis in reality and is.....well....wishful thinking.

I dunno. Indoctrination is obviously the reason most people believe in the particular religion they believe in. It happens during childhood and is constantly reinforced by the culture, so most Thais are Buddhist, most Egyptians are Muslim, most Indians are Hindu, and so on.

Where wishful thinking enters the picture are perhaps (and I'm just making reasonable guesses here) from various forms of wanting to be important or to get attention. The phenomenon of "false memories," perhaps brought on by the eager questions of pro-belief "investigators," or just the same thing brought on by repeated retelling, with further detail being steadily added.

One clue is the vehemence one gets when one raises and eyebrow or gently suggests a possible alternative explanation. If the person is seeking alternative explanations, they don't react with anger and a, "I know what I saw," but instead are willing to explore the event with some humility and possible mistake in mind.

I think it was on this thread, but maybe another, where I noted that in my youth I had some to me terribly convincing experiences. As I've aged, doubts and other possibilities have entered my mind, and I am less sure. That is probably why nowadays I react as I do.

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Now I come to think of it, maybe the Christianity-bashers at UM are not just atheists, but might also be satanists, fairy-worshippers, oddball cultists and similar types, so maybe they should come clean and admit what exactly they are so we can analyse their beliefs in more detail..

Everyone, you heard the man.. All form a group ( in a nice orderly fashion ) Crikey wants you to admit what you are, like if you are an oddball cultist or you worship some fairy.. He wants to put his judging helmet on so he can judge the life out of you.. Sorry analyse you, and what you follow.. So I say hey why not ?

I am going to put in my weird cult belief first.... Crikey, I worship satanic oddball fairy's... So, what do you think of me? I want a full analyst judging report, I think it is good to see a christian offer his judging .. analyizing services, free of charge, with no hidden agenda

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Anybody can cook up a Religious Timeline, but only Christianity is fronted by the Son of God himself, which kinda dilutes the validity of all the rest..;)

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I worship satanic oddball fairy's... So, what do you think of me?

I bet Becky's proud of you..;)

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I bet Becky's proud of you.. ;)

She is,. and get this, she loves me too !!!. Anyway, you call that a full analyst report? If you were charging for this exercise, I would demand my money back... Try again..I'll give you another chance, even though my satanic fairy spirit told me not to..

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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..you call that a full analyst report? If you were charging for this exercise, I would demand my money back... Try again..I'll give you another chance, even though my satanic fairy spirit told me not to..

I wonder why I scare your fairy spirit so much that she doesn't want you to listen to me?

But to get back to your analysis- Tell us why you don't like Jesus, and we'll take it from there..:)

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I wonder why I scare your fairy spirit so much that she doesn't want you to listen to me?

Your avatar, I think that's it ..

Tell us why you don't like Jesus, and we'll take it from there.

Because I never trust a guy with long hair and sandals ............

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Everyone, you heard the man.. All form a group ( in a nice orderly fashion ) Crikey wants you to admit what you are, like if you are an oddball cultist or you worship some fairy.. He wants to put his judging helmet on so he can judge the life out of you.. Sorry analyse you, and what you follow.. So I say hey why not ?

In no particular order, I'm an atheist, a socialist, a non-materialist (regarding things like mind and karma), and a rather bad Buddhist (oh I believe most of Buddhism but I'm nowhere near humble enough and am not seeking Enlightenment). I also try to follow Kantian ethics and a lot of Plato's political ideas, especially his suspicion of democracy, so in British terms I'm something of a Tory.

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In no particular order, I'm an atheist, a socialist, a non-materialist (regarding things like mind and karma), and a rather bad Buddhist (oh I believe most of Buddhism but I'm nowhere near humble enough and am not seeking Enlightenment). I also try to follow Kantian ethics and a lot of Plato's political ideas, especially his suspicion of democracy, so in British terms I'm something of a Tory.

A right wing atheist lol

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Anybody can cook up a Religious Timeline, but only Christianity is fronted by the Son of God himself, which kinda dilutes the validity of all the rest.. ;)

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Jesus is a narcissist and you are being an obnoxious sycophant?

Edited by HavocWing

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A right wing atheist lol

Categorizing myself I see several self-contradictions.

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I never trust a guy with long hair and sandals ............

Other women trusted Jesus even if you don't... ;)

(left-click pic to expand it for full dramatic effect)

JesusAdultrss.jpg

Edited by Crikey

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Categorizing myself I see several self-contradictions.

You wouldn't make a good Christian or a Tory lol :P

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Other women trusted Jesus even if you don't... ;)

That's because they were into long hair and sandals . He wasn't even an Irishman *sigh*.. Anyhoo, got anything more? Or is that it?

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You wouldn't make a good Christian or a Tory lol :P

I put the Tory part in there because I like monarchies, and am rather fond of what the limited introduction of market forces into Vietnam has done.

Sticking to the business at hand, I am definitely an atheist (this is common in Buddhism) and pretty strongly an anti-Christian (at least anti-missionaries) from personal experience.

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...i'm a rather bad Buddhist..

Okay mate now tell us why you chose Buddha and rejected Jesus, and we'll take it from there.. :)

Edited by Crikey

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Jesus.. wasn't even an Irishman *sigh*.. Anyhoo, got anything more? Or is that it?

Whoa what's your hurry missus? The fundy mob want to stone the adulteress to death but Jesus rescued her and told them "On yer bikes!".

So who's side are you on, the mobs or Jesus's?

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Okay mate now tell us why you chose Buddha and rejected Jesus, and we'll take it from there..

OI you haven't finished with my analyst report yet.. Tsk tsk

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Whoa what's your hurry missus? The fundy mob want to stone the adulteress to death but Jesus rescued her and told them "On yer bikes!".

So who's side are you on, the mobs or Jesus's?

Did the mob have long hair and sandals too?

"On yer bikes!".

I knew her wasn't an Irishman.. He sounds more like a Londoner

I am willing to bet he didn't once turn water into whiskey ?

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I dunno. Indoctrination is obviously the reason most people believe in the particular religion they believe in. It happens during childhood and is constantly reinforced by the culture, so most Thais are Buddhist, most Egyptians are Muslim, most Indians are Hindu, and so on.

Where wishful thinking enters the picture are perhaps (and I'm just making reasonable guesses here) from various forms of wanting to be important or to get attention. The phenomenon of "false memories," perhaps brought on by the eager questions of pro-belief "investigators," or just the same thing brought on by repeated retelling, with further detail being steadily added.

One clue is the vehemence one gets when one raises and eyebrow or gently suggests a possible alternative explanation. If the person is seeking alternative explanations, they don't react with anger and a, "I know what I saw," but instead are willing to explore the event with some humility and possible mistake in mind.

I think it was on this thread, but maybe another, where I noted that in my youth I had some to me terribly convincing experiences. As I've aged, doubts and other possibilities have entered my mind, and I am less sure. That is probably why nowadays I react as I do.

im glad you said " a reasonable guess". it is certainly reasonable. but that dosnt make it true....just an option. Where i think wishful thinking comes to play is with cognitive dissidence. This when somone chooses faith over reason because they have so much invested in a particular choice that they simply cannot handle the fact that they know they are wrong so they choose faith.

indoctrinated individuals do not fall into this catagory until they become educated enough.

People with powerful experiences or people that simply trust those people dont either. now there is always the possibility of false memories, mental problems, distorted realities etc etc..... but i try to remind people that that because something can happen dosnt mean that it always does. False memories or inturpretive problems Are a good example. yes they happen. but if you look closely at the experiments, often the inconsistencies are ocuring where the brain is filling in gaps. I work with lot of people. i find that in most cases their experiences are reliable. Evolution has spent billions of years and countless deaths organizing our brain to give as acurate a picture as possible. i just dont buy the false memory Hypothesis for certain kind of events. That dosnt mean the inturpretation must be accurate however.

religious and spiritual beliefs usually follow one of three patterns

1. an undeniable spiritual expereince of an individual. NDEs that change peoples lives are a good example.

2. an expereince of an individual communicated ( real or made up) -------> BELIEF or trust in the individual -----> Story telling or retelling of the original expereince with additions and or omissions accidental or intentional ----------> indoctrination sometimes acompanied by colored experiences ( the christian interpretes the white light and benevolant presence as jesus, while the buhddist something else)

3. story telling to describe mysterious events --------> retelling and changes ----------> indoctrination. ( often this cycle serves very benificial saftey information reguarding nature)

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Okay mate now tell us why you chose Buddha and rejected Jesus, and we'll take it from there.. :)

The buddha never claimed to be god, but that did not stop people from makeing him into one. He actually taught that his own teachings would pass away like everything else. He was probably wrong there.

I suspect that jesus suffered the same fate. I suspect that he did not actually claim to be god either but people latter made him into one. a common occurance actually. it would seem that i have more faith in the MAN of jesus than his actual followers.

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Anybody can cook up a Religious Timeline, but only Christianity is fronted by the Son of God himself, which kinda dilutes the validity of all the rest.. ;)

You've got it ass-backwards, evidence is what gives historical accounts validity, for sons of gods there is zilch.

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You've got it ass-backwards, evidence is what gives historical accounts validity, for sons of gods there is zilch.

Never understood that phrase. Surely if the ass is backwards, everything is as normal. Or do many people have buttocks on the front? :P

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