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bacca

Why is being liberal bad?

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A liberal, being proponent of education and knowledge for all has to know, at least enough to know whether he is liberal.

Who's not for knowledge? That's just talk. Politicians are shills for their constituencies, that's what they know. But you'll never hear them talk about it.

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Again people keep bringing up cost...cost of what exactly? I have asked this a couple of times an no one seems to answer it, all they keep saying is "it will cost" .... there are some things that I mentioned that would have a cost, but most do not, so what exactly are you trying to say is going to cost?

Welfare,foodstamps,"free health care" all that comes out of my pocket!I for one owe nothing to no 1!i own my house,my vehicles,owe 0 to credit card companies because my grandfather always taught me to save my money and pay with cash if you buy it with a card its not yours!Hard work and saving money while spending responsibly,what a novel idea i know!

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because being conservative is good, obviously.

basically, it's human nature to "big up" your group and in order to do that you need to denigrate the other group.

Like liberals don't also do that :-*

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Why is being a liberal bad?

I am very liberal in some of my thinking, only because my libertarian philosophies often find common ground (i.e equal rights, legalize cannabis etc)....

But in my view a true liberal (i'm sure you know one) does not advocate personal responcibility. It is always societies fault that the poor criminal robs you at knife point. If only we had supported him better, he would never have done it!

In my opinion it does not matter what your circumstances are, it does not excuse your actions. I don't care what you do if it does not affect someone elses rights, but as soon as it does then you are responcible for the consequences of your actions.

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Welfare,foodstamps,"free health care" all that comes out of my pocket!I for one owe nothing to no 1!i own my house,my vehicles,owe 0 to credit card companies because my grandfather always taught me to save my money and pay with cash if you buy it with a card its not yours!Hard work and saving money while spending responsibly,what a novel idea i know!

I do know of it and the idea is great, and there are lots of people who do that...there are also people who do that then life happens and they need help....there are always exceptions but many people don't want to need government assistance, I would think by your post that you make enough money that you pay a huge amount in taxes and your ok with everything else that YOUR money goes to right? It's helping to feed people that your bothered with? It's that that you would stop because your granddaddy taught you right? And anyone who falls on hard times should suck it up and get a job? lol your life must be all sunny since you have never needed anyone but yourself...not everyone can say that and it is really arrogant to assume that just because some is ok with people getting food means that they don't take responsibility...do you really think being on welfare is great? if you do go right on ahead and do it, no one is stopping you! Life isn't as right and wrong as all that, maybe in your world where starving people are ok, but for some people reality is not so easy

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Again people keep bringing up cost...cost of what exactly? I have asked this a couple of times an no one seems to answer it, all they keep saying is "it will cost" .... there are some things that I mentioned that would have a cost, but most do not, so what exactly are you trying to say is going to cost?

Being blind or ignorant as to the cost of things is another bad thing many liberals do. Are you new to the politics forums? Must be, because everything you're asking gets covered extensively in many ways in many threads. It seems like you're unwilling to understand as per everything you say below...

I do know of it and the idea is great, and there are lots of people who do that...there are also people who do that then life happens and they need help....there are always exceptions but many people don't want to need government assistance, I would think by your post that you make enough money that you pay a huge amount in taxes and your ok with everything else that YOUR money goes to right? It's helping to feed people that your bothered with? It's that that you would stop because your granddaddy taught you right? And anyone who falls on hard times should suck it up and get a job? lol your life must be all sunny since you have never needed anyone but yourself...not everyone can say that and it is really arrogant to assume that just because some is ok with people getting food means that they don't take responsibility...do you really think being on welfare is great? if you do go right on ahead and do it, no one is stopping you! Life isn't as right and wrong as all that, maybe in your world where starving people are ok, but for some people reality is not so easy

... I wanted to comment on each thing you say here but no matter how things are explained your liberal mind will always revert to an unnecessarily negative thrown out of proportion and context character assessment the minute you hear somebody tell you about personal responsibility or that things cost too much money. You don't seem to get that our taxes aren't always spent in a responsible manner. Are you ok with everything your tax money goes to? Probably are, but then again I don't think you have a clue where it goes.

Basically, you're a liberal and a very typical one at that. You're big question is one that you don't really want to hear the answers to. You may think you do but when you don't like what you hear you're going to tell us you don't get it. Then you'll tell us we don't care. Then you'll tell us we hate poor people and so on and so on. (see what I bolded above) Point is you don't get it and don't really want to and that's very typical of today's liberal.

If you truly want answers to this question I think your best bet is to stick around on these polical threads, comment in threads as to how you feel on issues and wait for replies. Your ideals will become known to yourself and others and throughout enough conversation you'll figure out what people find wrong with liberalism and also that I'm right as to how liberals react to such views.

In sum, stick around and in the mean time maybe read through old threads. Search the terms welfare, foodstamps and entitlements and view the old conversations.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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Being blind or ignorant as to the cost of things is another bad thing many liberals do. Are you new to the politics forums? Must be, because everything you're asking gets covered extensively in many ways in many threads. It seems like you're unwilling to understand as per everything you say below...

... I wanted to comment on each thing you say here but no matter how things are explained your liberal mind will always revert to an unnecessarily negative thrown out of proportion and context character assessment the minute you hear somebody tell you about personal responsibility or that things cost too much money. You don't seem to get that our taxes aren't always spent in a responsible manner. Are you ok with everything your tax money goes to? Probably are, but then again I don't think you have a clue where it goes.

Basically, you're a liberal and a very typical one at that. You're big question is one that you don't really want to hear the answers to. You may think you do but when you don't like what you hear you're going to tell us you don't get it. Then you'll tell us we don't care. Then you'll tell us we hate poor people and so on and so on. (see what I bolded above) Point is you don't get it and don't really want to and that's very typical of today's liberal.

If you truly want answers to this question I think your best bet is to stick around on these polical threads, comment in threads as to how you feel on issues and wait for replies. Your ideals will become known to yourself and others and throughout enough conversation you'll figure out what people find wrong with liberalism and also that I'm right as to how liberals react to such views.

In sum, stick around and in the mean time maybe read through old threads. Search the terms welfare, foodstamps and entitlements and view the old conversations.

Well I must say that your arrogance is pretty impressive. I do not like where all tax money is spent but you know what it isn't all about me or what I would like, there are things that money should go to and there are things that are necessary evils. In this country we try to avoid children starving in the street etc. The government also pays for breast reductions. I realize that you feel you have some superior knowledge and understanding and that by putting me into a box of what you call 'typical' you can somehow validate your own ideas by belittling mine. I do not have to go look up any past questions etc as I have the ability to ask my own here, as I have done and talk to people now...no one said you needed to answer me...I'm not entirely sure or not if you think speaking down to people makes you look smart or if you are just normally like that...whether or not I read political threads here or elsewhere is not your concern, you obviously feel that being liberal is bad, which was the point, you somehow think that because I have certain ideas that I don't understand certain things yet you know nothing about me...the idea that you make such generalizations about people who ask questions like mine or hold ideas like mine are exactly why the questions need to be asked, you come across seeming like you feel you are better then other people....do you really think that is a good thing?

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Making blanket accusations is bad and I agree with you there bacca. Outside of this forum that is becoming the norm. Especially in our political schism. Every gun owner, video game player and mentally ill person in this country is considered a demon by a government that is bent on taking our rights away. Mu suggestion would be too grow thicker skin and learn to look beyond a blanket statement and see what may apply and what may not apply to your own views. Then respond. By playing into the same rhetoric Fess was throwing at you you become part of the problem not part of the solution. I took from your OP that you wanted to be part of the solution. Dont prove me wrong please.

I agree were going nowhere with blanket accusations but certainly fighting fire with fire at this point is not gonna get any condemnation from me.

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Fess you bring up some good points about spending and the general state of mind of the Liberal to not want to hear anything that isnt what they want. AKA The spoiled child syndrome.

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Making blanket accusations is bad and I agree with you there bacca. Outside of this forum that is becoming the norm. Especially in our political schism. Every gun owner, video game player and mentally ill person in this country is considered a demon by a government that is bent on taking our rights away. Mu suggestion would be too grow thicker skin and learn to look beyond a blanket statement and see what may apply and what may not apply to your own views. Then respond. By playing into the same rhetoric Fess was throwing at you you become part of the problem not part of the solution. I took from your OP that you wanted to be part of the solution. Dont prove me wrong please.

I agree were going nowhere with blanket accusations but certainly fighting fire with fire at this point is not gonna get any condemnation from me.

You are right, I get annoyed with generals in the best of circumstances, when there is no real basis for them they annoy me even faster...it isn't a thick skin really (although it always comes in handy) its the idea that a person shouldn't need one...I don't put myself above others and even if I disagree with choices that someone makes it doesn't mean they don't have the right to make them...it is that the choices aren't right for me...I don't think a solution as you say is possible the two sides of the debate are to far apart...I am not so far gone in my own opinions about most things, I put blanket statements in the OP as a basis and they are things that I in general agree with, however not everything is possible and there is always other opinions that need to be taken into consideration. There are some that I hold as absolutes, and they are the ones that don't have effects on anyone else, and need to be done with so this country can get past them and move on to things that do matter, how to fix the problems so that questions about welfare and foodstamps won't be needed...I am not for the whole fair share idea, I do not think distribution of wealth is a good idea, but I do like the idea of helping people get to a place where they contribute to society instead of depend on it...

If I was rude, it was not intended by the way....I'll work on that thick skin thingy too :tu:

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Well I must say that your arrogance is pretty impressive. I do not like where all tax money is spent but you know what it isn't all about me or what I would like, there are things that money should go to and there are things that are necessary evils. In this country we try to avoid children starving in the street etc. The government also pays for breast reductions. I realize that you feel you have some superior knowledge and understanding and that by putting me into a box of what you call 'typical' you can somehow validate your own ideas by belittling mine. I do not have to go look up any past questions etc as I have the ability to ask my own here, as I have done and talk to people now...no one said you needed to answer me...I'm not entirely sure or not if you think speaking down to people makes you look smart or if you are just normally like that...whether or not I read political threads here or elsewhere is not your concern, you obviously feel that being liberal is bad, which was the point, you somehow think that because I have certain ideas that I don't understand certain things yet you know nothing about me...the idea that you make such generalizations about people who ask questions like mine or hold ideas like mine are exactly why the questions need to be asked, you come across seeming like you feel you are better then other people....do you really think that is a good thing?

Ehh, I've been through this all before. We're going down the wrong road. Your basic question is very broad and hard to answer. There's no simple way to answer. I'm just saying that these kinds of things take time to understand and getting into the conversations will help you understand better than trying to find an answer.

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Ehh, I've been through this all before. We're going down the wrong road. Your basic question is very broad and hard to answer. There's no simple way to answer. I'm just saying that these kinds of things take time to understand and getting into the conversations will help you understand better than trying to find an answer.

Exactly, I want the conversation...it is broad, for a reason really, I have found that most people have at least one issue that they see the other side on and that usually is a starting point of how or why people see things the way they do...Perhaps I should have added some of my own things that fall onto the other side, but the point was why or how liberals got the role of bad guy or what not...There are people who go to far, PETA for instance, taking a good idea and going wacky doesn't help the idea...taking an idea and using invalid reasons or flat out lies to prove their point (this is done on both sides) there is really no difference between the views on how people who don't agree with them will talk about or see them...I personally wanted the discussion, you can turn it to the other side, it should be the same end result should it not? I don't understand the extreme of either side, not when it is an all or nothing debate...there are always things on the other side that make sense, for me that is why I personal use social issues, those are the ones that I am liberal about, everything else and normally I can join the GOP :innocent:

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I do agree with because on some points. Some of the management on the tax spending is abysmal. Things costing tenfold more than they should. Also feeding the American war machine which results in terrorising other countries and costs extreme amounts of money to support. All under the guise of solving other problems in other countries but failing to address their own problems.

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Its actually the Government itself trying to polarize us. Right or Left we both see different issues as being of "greater" importance but with a few exceptions I dont think either side dismisses the others issues as irrelevant.

If your looking for the root of the division it lies in Washington (yes I spelled it lies on purpose).

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I do agree with because on some points. Some of the management on the tax spending is abysmal. Things costing tenfold more than they should. Also feeding the American war machine which results in terrorising other countries and costs extreme amounts of money to support. All under the guise of solving other problems in other countries but failing to address their own problems.

Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

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Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

The Conservative argument is nearly word for word the same.

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The Conservative argument is nearly word for word the same.

So how do you bridge the gap...two sides that in all honesty don't understand how the other thinks and feels they way they do about certain issues...I don't mean those in Washington or state politics, but real people. I believe that it is the normal person that makes the difference or at least could start making the difference...but how can two sides that have a hard time doing anything other than getting angry and frustrated really find out how and/or why the other sides wants what they want...is it just to big?

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why or how liberals got the role of bad guy or what not...

Can you honestly say that conservatism is portrayed in a positive light these days? I mean the answer is in the eye of the beholder. It's a question of personal perspective.

Liberals run the country based on emotion first at all costs. If it feels good, do it. You can't run a country with your emotions. Emotions distort other realities that must factor into important decisions regarding the future of the country such as its financial situation and the possible negative effects of people getting used to the government being their guiding light.

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So how do you bridge the gap...two sides that in all honesty don't understand how the other thinks and feels they way they do about certain issues...I don't mean those in Washington or state politics, but real people. I believe that it is the normal person that makes the difference or at least could start making the difference...but how can two sides that have a hard time doing anything other than getting angry and frustrated really find out how and/or why the other sides wants what they want...is it just to big?

You raise the best question ever. As that is truly a big part of getting us out of this mess. From my perspective conversations like were having on some obscure board are the beginnings. Really if they wont do it in Washington then were gonna have to do it ourselves.

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I think one of the biggest reasons, in addition to the point Wearer of Hats has made, is people really don't understand the two labels. Liberal and Conservative are terms that are relative to each other (I have been labeled as one or the other depending on the topic). People like to create a 'black and white' view of things.

At the minimum, there should at least be 4 differently labeled groups, at least in the U.S.

1) Fiscally liberal, socially liberal

2) Fiscally liberal, socially conservative

3) Fiscally conservative, socially conservative

4) Fiscally conservative, socially liberal

# 3 is Libertarian

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Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

Sorry because was meant to be becca... Autocorrect. What kinda annoys me when people say "we are fighting for the freedom of our country". It is idiocy of the highest level. They had more freedom when the "war" started and a lot less with every year that passes. They are in other countries not to protect their own. I don't condemn anyone who goes into the military because they aren't the ones who call the shots.

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# 3 is Libertarian

#3 should be libertarian at first glance, but is anything but. Have you heard what these social conservatives are proposing? They might not want to come into our garage and tell us what kind of GM to drive, they might not come in our gun cabinet and tell us what kind of gun to shoot, or in our bathroom and tell us what kind of toilet to flush, but they'll come into our bedroom and tell us what kind of sex to have, they'll come into our marriage and tell us what kind of relationship to have, they'll amend the Constitution with words that are already in the dictionary, with definitions for that word that aren't. I've got higher standards for libertarianism than that, and #3's version of nanny boo boo govt ain't it.

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All societies seem to have a two-way split along these lines. In Vietnam we have liberals (who want to push for more of a market economy and maybe a little local democracy) and "hard-liners."

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I would say #4 is Libertarian.

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I subscribe to a web site (Reason) that is supposed to be Libertarian, but I don't get it. I would not be the one to do it, but maybe some Libertarian out there would start a thread on this.

As far as I am concerned, I see liberty as a nice slogan but in reality unachievable, and its use as a slogan doing more harm than good. I also think there are other objectives in life that would be more important, such as compassion, equality, harmony, universal dignity, public health and safety, etc.

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