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bacca

Why is being liberal bad?

109 posts in this topic

I would say #4 is Libertarian.

I'd say that #1 and #4 are generally associated with Left and Right Libertarianism, in that order.

Basically, though, everyone with a pulse seems to want to call themselves a Libertarian these days, so even defining what a Libertarian is has become a bit of a bun fight.

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I do know of it and the idea is great, and there are lots of people who do that...there are also people who do that then life happens and they need help....there are always exceptions but many people don't want to need government assistance, I would think by your post that you make enough money that you pay a huge amount in taxes and your ok with everything else that YOUR money goes to right? It's helping to feed people that your bothered with? It's that that you would stop because your granddaddy taught you right? And anyone who falls on hard times should suck it up and get a job? lol your life must be all sunny since you have never needed anyone but yourself...not everyone can say that and it is really arrogant to assume that just because some is ok with people getting food means that they don't take responsibility...do you really think being on welfare is great? if you do go right on ahead and do it, no one is stopping you! Life isn't as right and wrong as all that, maybe in your world where starving people are ok, but for some people reality is not so easy

You are 1 ignorant fool,if you can not properly interpret what i have said then you for one should not have access to the internet.You are not a responsible adult and live on my tax dollars i take it.No my life has not been all great and sunny i have had hard times,but you know what i have always put my big boy pants on and got myself out of my own troubles not taken other peoples money!Its called being a adult!Try it some time ,might make you feel better to do something for yourself rather than freeloading off of others.

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You are 1 ignorant fool,if you can not properly interpret what i have said then you for one should not have access to the internet.You are not a responsible adult and live on my tax dollars i take it.No my life has not been all great and sunny i have had hard times,but you know what i have always put my big boy pants on and got myself out of my own troubles not taken other peoples money!Its called being a adult!Try it some time ,might make you feel better to do something for yourself rather than freeloading off of others.

Feeling superior are we? Do you know anything about me personally? nope didn't think so....The fact that I can appreciate and understand that there are times that people have no choice to ask for help does not mean that I do not take responsibility. How you just spoke, and the manner in which you seem to feel that you know and understand things because of how your life has been is part of the problem. Let me ask during your hard times you didn't need help from anyone right? And you have kids to feed, cloth, and keep warm and safe right? And you needed no one to do this? If the answer is that you needed help then you need to grow up and realize not everyone has family help and not everyone has options available that may have been available to you...It is not freeloading to ask for help so that you can pull yourself back up, you have a very simply view of people and you seem to think that everyone falls into one category. Again lumping everyone into one box is not helping anyone, your rudeness is not helping anyone either...I do not mean to be rude but calling people a fool because you disagree with them is certainly not adding to the dicussion

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Feeling superior are we? Do you know anything about me personally? nope didn't think so....The fact that I can appreciate and understand that there are times that people have no choice to ask for help does not mean that I do not take responsibility. How you just spoke, and the manner in which you seem to feel that you know and understand things because of how your life has been is part of the problem. Let me ask during your hard times you didn't need help from anyone right? And you have kids to feed, cloth, and keep warm and safe right? And you needed no one to do this? If the answer is that you needed help then you need to grow up and realize not everyone has family help and not everyone has options available that may have been available to you...It is not freeloading to ask for help so that you can pull yourself back up, you have a very simply view of people and you seem to think that everyone falls into one category. Again lumping everyone into one box is not helping anyone, your rudeness is not helping anyone either...I do not mean to be rude but calling people a fool because you disagree with them is certainly not adding to the dicussion

Was not trying to be a *sshole and did not mean to say you were a fool only if you interpreted what i have said wrong.Some people do need help i understand this,but many in this country now days take advantage of the system and once they get a helping hand they make it a way of life.Yes i may come off as arrogant sometimes but im really not,i just believe some now days can do more than they care to and i for one am completely against the gimme culture our country has started to embrace.

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Because it can be confused with giving.. and giving is bad. .. anyway, liberal is just a word, not a species.

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It's true that Libertarian has become a new "cool thing to be". I like to point people to here... when there is a misunderstanding of what "Libertarian" means.

http://www.lp.org/platform

This is the party platform. This is what I believe is correct and this is why I call myself a "Libertarian". Sure, you have your Ayn Rand types, but that is not part of the platform. That is more "philosophy" than politics. I believe in the philosophy of freedom...which is different than Ayn Rand's "self love above all others".

Word game

"Liberal"

I like things in Liberal quantities. When I think of a "Liberal" education, I think "copious amounts"...not artsy fartsy singing and dancing. "My brain was filled with liberal amounts of scientific knowledge at the University"

"I drank liberal amounts of scotch at the bar last night"

Bah...anyway.

Everyone is entitled to their world views and you are free to call it what you want. I think we should all strive to be personally responsible...to do the best we can do. I think the GOV gets in the way of progress more than it facilitates it...and some say the liberal mind is "progressive"...more like..."regressive" to me.

There has to be a balance. You cannot live in a hole in the ground...you have to be part of society and do things to support that society...but there still has to be room for individual freedom and personal responsibility. Personal responsibility...it really is a good thing and a solid foundation to any successful civilization.

Just my opinion though...

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Was not trying to be a *sshole and did not mean to say you were a fool only if you interpreted what i have said wrong.Some people do need help i understand this,but many in this country now days take advantage of the system and once they get a helping hand they make it a way of life.Yes i may come off as arrogant sometimes but im really not,i just believe some now days can do more than they care to and i for one am completely against the gimme culture our country has started to embrace.

I agree with you. I think the system needs to be fixed to help those who truly need it, and help them find a way to never need it again. i do not think that it should be endless and I think there needs to be some way to try and find out who is abusing the system and stop them. I don't want to help everyone and for most people government help should be a temporary thing until they find another way. There are always going to be people who try to find a way to get more etc...and I don't like the idea of them either...the people I am talking about those are the ones who really need help. The gimme culture as you put it is a problem, but people just complaining about it (those in a position to change it) are only making the situation worse. They aren't trying to find a way to stop it or fix it, they just want to complain about it...who is that helping?

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I subscribe to a web site (Reason) that is supposed to be Libertarian, but I don't get it. I would not be the one to do it, but maybe some Libertarian out there would start a thread on this.

As far as I am concerned, I see liberty as a nice slogan but in reality unachievable, and its use as a slogan doing more harm than good. I also think there are other objectives in life that would be more important, such as compassion, equality, harmony, universal dignity, public health and safety, etc.

Oh it's achievable. We've done it. But we're losing it slowly. Liberty must be spoken of meaning never forgotten and it must be defended all the time because if there is something that people in high power wanting more of it hate more than anything it is that liberty gives power to people. One bad thing about liberalism is that it requires so much government. More government means more security by dependence which means less liberty. Ben Franklin said those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

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Liberty
Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.

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Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.

The war ended? When did that happen, was it recently? Geez someone should have let people around here know when it ended :no:

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The war ended? When did that happen, was it recently? Geez someone should have let people around here know when it ended :no:

True dat. I live in Oregon. We didnt participate much. The feds came in early and federalized us to Reservation duty because we had Southern leanings. I believe you received some of our guns and those that could make the journey to join other state militias of the south.

Them we finally made our last stand at The Long Tom Rebellion (just a few miles from where I live)

http://www.sos.state.or.us/bbook/cultural/history/history16.htm

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Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.

Don't be so sure...

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I'd say that #1 and #4 are generally associated with Left and Right Libertarianism, in that order.

Basically, though, everyone with a pulse seems to want to call themselves a Libertarian these days, so even defining what a Libertarian is has become a bit of a bun fight.

Now if everyone who called themselves a libertarian actually voted libertarian, this world would be a better place.

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For those that might be confused:

lib·er·tar·i·an (libreve.gifblprime.gifschwa.gifr-târprime.gifemacr.gif-schwa.gifn)

n.

1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.

2. One who believes in free will.

[From liberty.]

liblprime.gifer·tarprime.gifi·an adj.

liblprime.gifer·tarprime.gifi·an·ism n.

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Now if everyone who called themselves a libertarian actually voted libertarian, this world would be a better place.

Yes, but first it would be useful to define what libertarian actually means, because as I see it,in US politics it is a very stretchable term, reaching the whole spectrum from the conservative bible thumper to the progressive liberal and passing over the reactionary who wants to return to 1860.

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I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that agreed with their party 100%.

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Yes, but first it would be useful to define what libertarian actually means, because as I see it,in US politics it is a very stretchable term, reaching the whole spectrum from the conservative bible thumper to the progressive liberal and passing over the reactionary who wants to return to 1860.

If you are voting for the libertarian party you should be familiar with what they stand for. Their policies and philosophies are on their website. I believe a link has already been posted in this thread

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Yes, but first it would be useful to define what libertarian actually means, because as I see it,in US politics it is a very stretchable term, reaching the whole spectrum from the conservative bible thumper to the progressive liberal and passing over the reactionary who wants to return to 1860.

Call me a Constitutional Libertarian then

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Call me a Constitutional Libertarian then

Where all have to be very careful not to end up as a libertine because the rules are "flexible'.

Edited by questionmark

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I see that in the definition. Its broad enough to include just about any political view. But in principle I believe in the definition of Libertarian. By now you know me well enough that Im likel closer to the Constitutional party. Al;though I have not actively read there platform it just made my short list of things to look into.

One thing I know for sure is I will never again vote Dem/Rep

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I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that agreed with their party 100%.

Me either, I am a registered independent, basically because I don't agree with either side 100%, Both sides need to bend and compromise, although I guess if you are in government you don't really care what happens in the real world

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Me either, I am a registered independent, basically because I don't agree with either side 100%, Both sides need to bend and compromise, although I guess if you are in government you don't really care what happens in the real world

I too would never register as anything but Independent because regardless Im going to vote for the candidate I believe in or abstain because there is no good choice. (funny how the 2 party system is such a huge failure). We really need to get a 3rd party with some backbone in Washington to help balance the power.

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How about we drop the labels on ourselves and especially on the hill. Set reasonable and short congressional term limits and have candidates run on their views and not their party label. When its time to vote you vote based on merit, character and the actions they took. Period. Get rid of parties and you get rid a party bias when casting votes. Without labels even the most disenchanted about politics will actually have to pay attention to the candidates before they cast a vote. There won't be any other way to know or think you know who you're voting for.

It would either result in far less votes since people won't know who to vote for or far more votes due to a renewed interest and a kick in the ass to pay attention.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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How about we drop the labels on ourselves and especially on the hill. Set reasonable and short congressional term limits and have candidates run on their views and not their party label. When its time to vote you vote based on merit, character and the actions they took. Period. Get rid of parties and you get rid a party bias when casting votes. Without labels even the most disenchanted about politics will actually have to pay attention to the candidates before they cast a vote. There won't be any other way to know or think you know who you're voting for,

Would work, but think of all those poor lobbyists that suddenly would become homeless :devil:

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Would work, but think of all those poor lobbyists that suddenly would become homeless :devil:

Oh yea. That too. Thing is, won't happen.

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