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Unions epiphany on Obamacare

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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/31/union-leaders-epiphany-leaves-them-scrambling-wait-obamacare-is-going-to-drive-up-our-costs/

UNION LEADERS’ EPIPHANY LEAVES THEM SCRAMBLING: WAIT, OBAMACARE IS GOING TO DRIVE UP OUR COSTS?

Imagine the following scene:

A handful of union bosses crowd around an old card table, punching numbers into their calculators. They’ve been up all night. Someone puts on another pot of coffee and a few of the older bosses are starting to fall asleep. Those who are still alert and active scratch their heads and re-enter their calculations.

“Oh, my gosh!” one of them shouts, concluding the all-night exercise. “‘Obamacare’ is going to cost us!”

Yes, according to a recent report from the Wall Street Journal, union leaders (i.e. the same people who campaigned tirelessly in favor of universal healthcare) are trying to figure out a way to avoid paying for the costs associated with “Obamacare.”

From the WSJ:

Labor unions enthusiastically backed the Obama administration’s health-care overhaul when it was up for debate. Now that the law is rolling out, some are turning sour.

Union leaders say many of the law’s requirements will drive up the costs for their health-care plans and make unionized workers less competitive. Among other things, the law eliminates the caps on medical benefits and prescription drugs used as cost-containment measures in many health-care plans. It also allows children to stay on their parents’ plans until they turn 26.

To offset that, the nation’s largest labor groups want their lower-paid members to be able to get federal insurance subsidies while remaining on their plans. In the law, these subsidies were designed only for low-income workers without employer coverage as a way to help them buy private insurance.

In early talks, the Obama administration dismissed the idea of applying the subsidies to people in union-sponsored plans, according to officials from the trade group, the National Coordinating Committee for Multiemployer Plans, that represents these insurance plans.

As financial reality sets in, and rather than figure out a way to pay for the bill they helped pass, unions are trying to see if Washington will bail them out.

“Top officers at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the AFL-CIO and other large labor groups plan to keep pressing the Obama administration to expand the federal subsidies,” the WSJ notes, “warning that unionized employers may otherwise drop coverage.”

“A handful of unions say they already have examined whether it makes sense to shift workers off their current plans and onto private coverage subsidized by the government. But dropping insurance altogether would undermine a central point of joining a union, labor leaders say,” the report adds.

No, really, union heads are acting like no one warned them that costs would go up.

“We are going back to the administration to say that this is not acceptable,” said Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer for the Teamsters.

“I heard him say, ‘If you like your health plan, you can keep it,’” said John Wilhelm, chairman of Unite Here Health, the insurance plan for 260,000 union workers. “If I’m wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law.”

Why? Why? Why didn’t anyone tell these leaders about the costs associated with “Obamacare”?

“It seems someone finally noticed that mandating benefits and imposing regulations has a tendency to … increase costs,” Doug Bandow writes for the American Spectator. “Increases which workers are stuck paying. Who would have imagined such a result? It’s not like anyone warned them, right?”

All I want is to hear the left say that the unions are wrong.

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Obamacare was never meant to make things cheaper. It was meant to force everyone to get insurance or pay a fee for being alive essentially. The very poor will get cheap rates(as far as I understand it), and the rest of country will be burdened with the load. That is a good or bad depending on your perspective.

Then again who knows what will really happen since most of it wasn't even known when it was voted on...

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Ya no kidding. We had to pass it before we found out what was in it. You know, like transparent government by the people for the people is supposed to work. :/

Remember it was supposed to be the affordable care act? Haha. That's what happens when you vote for governing by if it feels good do it. Never judge a book by its cover.

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It has also been discovered, due to a "glitch", a lot of the working poor will still not be able to afford insurance. I've been saying this all along...the numbers didn't didn't add up.

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It has also been discovered, due to a "glitch", a lot of the working poor will still not be able to afford insurance. I've been saying this all along...the numbers didn't didn't add up.

That's right. I read that hilarious headline about the glitch this morning.

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http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/obamacare-glitch-could-leave-thousands-uninsured/

Obamacare glitch could leave thousands uninsured

Glitch may be an understatement, but that’s what industry analysts have by and large termed a Wednesday failure of the Internal Revenue Service to properly address an Obamacare funding issue — and now families may be outpriced from health plans.

Employer-sponsored health care plans are on the rise, and costs that are passed along to workers may leave some scrambling for more moderately priced plans. Such families were supposed to get financial assistance from the government to help pay for plans outside their places of employment — but according to The Associated Press, Congress didn’t include text for that financial assistance program in the final Obamacare law. So, Obamacare supporters were expecting the IRS to fix this problem — but the agency did not.

Its newly issued regulations failed to provide for that particular scenario and instead, these families will face the same fines imposed on those who don’t carry health insurance at all — the same fines as those who violate the mandate portion of Obamacare, according to the AP.

The main issue: What’s defined as affordable?

The White House, according to the AP, has blamed Congress.

“This is a very significant problem, and we have urged that it be fixed,” said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, told the AP.

An immediate fix is unlikely. At least one advocacy group, First Focus, is estimating 500,000 children could be left uninsured due to the glitch, the media report continued.

Read more: http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/obamacare-glitch-could-leave-thousands-uninsured/#ixzz2Jce2MmrJ

Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

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So it's not a mistake in Obamacare, but the fault of Congress and the IRS. Obama needs to grow a pair and face the music. :passifier:

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Every single time I read or hear about Obamacare the only thing that rings through my head is Pelosi saying on live TV, "We have to pass the healthcare bill so you can find out what's in it." That was one of those political moments when you come to a serious realization that we are genuinely governed by incompetent shysters without the slightest bit of satire in your head.

It's like someone saying, "We have to build this building according to these blueprints we haven't really looked through so we can find out what is it."

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IKve heard rumors that for some individuals Obamacare will cost 12k a year or 25% of there income. With subsidies that number will drop to 8k per year. If there a nonsmoker nor overweight. Dont have a link as it was one of those things I just read in passing.

Ive already done the math and the cheapest route for me to go is to just pay the fine.

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My union provided insurance costs roughly 10,000$ a year. It's a group plan and includes everyone in the participants family with no exclusions. Ten years ago it cost half the price so even without Obamacare I was expecting it to shoot up to 20K a year by the end of the decade easily. This is 10k more a year per man more than what a contractor with no insurance costs so I can see the unions panicing about competitiveness. I would think that with Obamacare forcing everyone to have insurance they would consider it more of a boon than a hurt.

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Every single time I read or hear about Obamacare the only thing that rings through my head is Pelosi saying on live TV, "We have to pass the healthcare bill so you can find out what's in it." That was one of those political moments when you come to a serious realization that we are genuinely governed by incompetent shysters without the slightest bit of satire in your head.

It's like someone saying, "We have to build this building according to these blueprints we haven't really looked through so we can find out what is it."

It's a bust of a bill for that very reason. I read an analysis a couple months ago - will have to dig it up - detailing all of the cost overruns and problems that are occurring and it hasn't even really been implemented yet. Of great concern, however, was that one of the key components that made the thing "revenue neutral" has failed so poorly that it has been disbanded.

I think 2014 is going to blow a lot of folks out of the water and be the death knell for the Obama legacy.

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It's a bust of a bill for that very reason. I read an analysis a couple months ago - will have to dig it up - detailing all of the cost overruns and problems that are occurring and it hasn't even really been implemented yet. Of great concern, however, was that one of the key components that made the thing "revenue neutral" has failed so poorly that it has been disbanded.

I think 2014 is going to blow a lot of folks out of the water and be the death knell for the Obama legacy.

Well considering Obamacare is based off a Heritage Foundation idea and Romneycare and that Democrats really wanted socialized medicine, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Obamacare was set up to fail and in doing so set up the foundation for social medicine. Neither party really liked the idea, but the cost of healthcare was rising so fast that something had to be done.

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I would think that with Obamacare forcing everyone to have insurance they would consider it more of a boon than a hurt.

You would think until you realize there are few contracting companies that have more than 50 people employed. Anything less than 50 employees and healthcare by the employer isn't required and will not be fined. Only reason to offer it is as a perk. Unions will probably still get work that requires huge labor forces but many companies looking to get something built may find great financial advantages in hiring several contracting crews as opposed to one big expensive union. Not that unions are currently cheap to hire but you get the gist.

Well considering Obamacare is based off a Heritage Foundation idea and Romneycare and that Democrats really wanted socialized medicine, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Obamacare was set up to fail and in doing so set up the foundation for social medicine. Neither party really liked the idea, but the cost of healthcare was rising so fast that something had to be done.

I had a friend telling me something similar today and that the Obamacare or ACA got going during the Bush years. I don't know much about what he was talking about besides about Romneycare and that Hilary had something similar created some time ago but when I heard that the first thing I said was that if true it would be perfect for Obama or the Dems to pass blame in the future that Republicans wrote funny language into the bill and now it's screwed up and we had no idea it was going to be this way so now we have to go with the ultimate democrat plan. It must be fixed and fixed now and the only way to do so is through socialized healthcare.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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Obamacare will wind up being a ruin for the American Health system not at first but it wont take long. Health Care will become some of the worst in the developed world because of greed. Mark my words. It will also likely destroy medicare and medicaid along the way as it tries to stay afloat.

Im a betting man and I give it the 10 year mark before total failure and economic invilability is declared.

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Every single time I read or hear about Obamacare the only thing that rings through my head is Pelosi saying on live TV, "We have to pass the healthcare bill so you can find out what's in it." That was one of those political moments when you come to a serious realization that we are genuinely governed by incompetent shysters without the slightest bit of satire in your head.

It's like someone saying, "We have to build this building according to these blueprints we haven't really looked through so we can find out what is it."

Every time i think about pelosi making that comment I wonder to myself what people are being taught in school and how they were raised when they actually vote someone into a position of power that makes a comment that stupid.

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Every time i think about pelosi making that comment I wonder to myself what people are being taught in school and how they were raised when they actually vote someone into a position of power that makes a comment that stupid.

There being taught to believe whatever there told IMO. If anything at all. Our public schools are less then ideal.

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Every time i think about pelosi making that comment I wonder to myself what people are being taught in school and how they were raised when they actually vote someone into a position of power that makes a comment that stupid.

What's worse is thinking of all the people who defended her statement and the utter lack of scrutiny by the MSM.

I remember one poster on here, that'd be ninjadude, would say that our elected officials didn't have to read it due to the fact that they have assistants to do that for them while our elected work on change and compromise. Baffled I was that one would think it's ok that the people we elect to lead this country would either blindly vote for something which has a magnitude of nation changing proportions or that they would vote for something based off the opinion of a non-elected person who amounts to a secretary in the private world. In either case they knew nothing of the contents of the bill and in reality couldn't even give an honest opinion based on a review.

It's sickening. No offense to the great secretaries of the world. Just that if I didn't elect you I don't think you should have any weight deciding the future economic and health of the United States of America.

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Every single time I read or hear about Obamacare the only thing that rings through my head is Pelosi saying on live TV, "We have to pass the healthcare bill so you can find out what's in it." That was one of those political moments when you come to a serious realization that we are genuinely governed by incompetent shysters without the slightest bit of satire in your head.

It's like someone saying, "We have to build this building according to these blueprints we haven't really looked through so we can find out what is it."

Her point, near as I can tell, seem to have been twofold. Given the deliberate mudslinging and misinformation campaign waged by opponents of reform, the truth would be revealed by what actually happens and not by an endless stream of wild accusations and doomsday predictions; obviously we haven't quite gotten to that stage yet, as this stuff continues unabated. The second point is that she was talking to a group of county officials in her speech (the National Association of Counties)--in the U.S., most of our public health infrastructure and responsibility lies at the county level. So those folks weren't going to see what the law is doing for their work at the local level until it was law--you're not going to see an investment in community health centers in your county until the investment gets made.

"The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals.

"You've heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don't know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention -- it's about diet, not diabetes. It's going to be very, very exciting.

"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

The insinuation that she was saying that she wasn't familiar with the legislation or that she was trying to pull a fast one on someone (who? county officials?) aren't borne out by what she actually said.

Anything less than 50 employees and healthcare by the employer isn't required and will not be fined. Only reason to offer it is as a perk.

That's always been the only reason to offer health benefits.

Edited by Startraveler

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The ACA was designed to be so complicated and expensive that it would fail - with the benefit of mortally wounding the insurance business in the process. Single payer was always the goal and when the ACA finally "smotes the mountain side in it's ruin" single payer will be the only option left. Imagine the fortuitousness of it.

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That's always been the only reason to offer health benefits.

Yes, but it was always a choice, sans union interference. The morality and financial reasoning behind such a choice are irrelevant and subjective to each employer. But the point is that it was a choice and now for many employers they can still keep that choice however they will be fined a $3000 per uncovered employee. Minimum 50 employees= $150,000 of sweat and blood generated income goes right into the government abyss. I think that's BS. Maybe that extra $150,000 would be better spent making compounding investments in the company. Maybe that's how much working capital they need to keep operations flowing. There are so many negatives.

What would you figure is the minimum employer cost for a the cheapest group package that covers 50 employees?

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