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Are Ghosts Real? Science Says No-o-o-o

Do you believe ghosts are real?   78 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe ghosts are real?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      25

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106 posts in this topic

These energy imprints from time does it also count if a spirit has never been in that location before? I ask because I know someone who had two spirits visit them and she saw them standing there in solid form. They have never been to her house before they died so I have been trying to figure out if its real or maybe an imprint?

There's another theory that ghosts can be simply a type of thought or emotion forms sent out (usually unknowingly) by people, be they dead or alive. A strong emotion or thought tied to a person or place. So much so that the person might even actually see them there.

All just ideas.

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Thank you _Only. That could be a possibility with one but the other spirit she hadn't seen for about 35 yrs. She didn't even know he was dead until he appeared in her house. Not sure what to think about this.

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I have a challenge for the non believers . Become a ghost hunter for a few months. Go buy about $1500 worth of equipment out of your own pocket. And spent countless hours hunting and reviewing our own stuff. ........................... If ghosts don't exist then why do we do it?

I have, for more then a few months. I am not going to buy $1500.00 of equipment , equipment manufactured for something other then " ghost hunting " , yet claimed to find ghosts.

I do not need to, tens of thousands of people all ready do this. And not one piece of credible evidence, not even enough to get the Scientific community to take notice.

If ghost don't exist, why do we do it?.......A hobby, a addiction, ignorance, and blind faith.

Edited by Sakari
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I'm curious how you people with these theories define the word "energy."

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I'm curious how you people with these theories define the word "energy."

In this case, thought and emotion. Energy of the mind.

Edited by _Only

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You provided a couple of examples; do you have a working definition?

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First off, those weren't my theories. The first was Paul Bradford's and the second was from a metaphysics book, But I can define energy for you. Energy = power. Thought energy = Power of thought. Emotional energy = Emotional power. Do these energies have the ability to carry on once a physical body is gone? Maybe.

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A little sad that there isn't an "I don't know" vote.

I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".

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A little sad that there isn't an "I don't know" vote.

I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".

Psychology :)

Our minds all want things to be real that are not. Imagination is a great thing, as long as we can distinguish imagination from reality.

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Psychology :)

Our minds all want things to be real that are not. Imagination is a great thing, as long as we can distinguish imagination from reality.

I'll go as far as saying I agree with you 99%. Honestly. But should science discover that it's something like a natural em field that messes with our perceptions... he he.

I'm open to the idea, I've experienced some odd stuff... not enough to make me believe.

EDIT: I should have been more clear, I do not believe that ghosts are dead relatives, demons or astral entities. I do believe something is going on that makes people jump to that though.

Edited by RedSquirrel

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Science can't prove the existence or non-existence of ghosts. It never will. How can you study a ghost with the scientific method? And repeat the study to see if the findings are the same? If they do exist, they are formless entities that appear randomly and cannot be studied in a lab. No matter how many EVPs and videos/pictures of ghosts people get, science will never be able to tackle the subject. Its like religion- science cannot prove or disprove it, so it comes to belief. If you want to believe you believe, if you dont you dont :)

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First off, those weren't my theories. The first was Paul Bradford's and the second was from a metaphysics book, But I can define energy for you. Energy = power. Thought energy = Power of thought. Emotional energy = Emotional power. Do these energies have the ability to carry on once a physical body is gone? Maybe.

Energy is not a thing - its a description of a system. There is no such thing as the "power of thought" or "emotional power", its sloppy new age waffle.

Science can't prove the existence or non-existence of ghosts. It never will. How can you study a ghost with the scientific method? And repeat the study to see if the findings are the same? If they do exist, they are formless entities that appear randomly and cannot be studied in a lab. No matter how many EVPs and videos/pictures of ghosts people get, science will never be able to tackle the subject. Its like religion- science cannot prove or disprove it, so it comes to belief. If you want to believe you believe, if you dont you dont :)

Firstly, that's special pleading: "this can't be studied by science, so they can't be disproved". If something exists, it can be studied. By definition. We can study neutrinos and black holes - events and objects unimaginably small and big.

Science isn't pinned down and restricted by your odd homemade definitions. And if ghosts existed, we would be able to study them.

Secondly, that is a terrible way to live your life - "if you want to believe, believe". What the hell would happen to progressive civilization if that was the way everyone thought??

You should believe in what there is evidence for. And there is no evidence for ghosts.

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I have not seen any proof of life after death, but I do believe that there are many things that science (at this time) cannot grasp with the current model. I do believe that if ghosts are real, it will be science that proves it. I am ghost-agnostic. I believe something is happening to cause people to believe in ghosts, but I am unsure what. Though I lean pretty hard to the side of "Nope".

There are so many available explanations that are more mundane than the spirits of the dead haunting things that unless we are grinding some ax or other we are bound to be dismissive. If there is an afterlife I sure hope it isn't like that.

There is one sort of argument that I have seen on not just this subject but on Sasquatch, on flying saucers, on angels, on miracles, and so on -- that so many people report experiences of the particular sort that there just has to be "something" there.

I think nothing of the sort. They may testify to something real, but they probably only testify to the fact that we are all subject to fantasy, waking dreams, lucid dreams, false memories, the desire to believe, illusions, misinterpretations, and even temporary delusions. There also exist thousands of con artists and true believers who will engage in pious fraud to save our souls.

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Energy is not a thing - its a description of a system. There is no such thing as the "power of thought" or "emotional power", its sloppy new age waffle.

Energy is not just a description of a system. That's one meaning of a word that has multiple, depending on the context. One is "exertion of vigor or power", which is the way I was using it. This is what people mean when using the word energy in this context. To say there is no power to thought or power of emotion is ludicrous to me, but that is just your opinion, so I'll leave it at that. To affect your, and others', situation, or other people's thoughts and mood with only your emotion is a real thing we all do. And the way someone can greatly affect you by simply putting a thought inside your mind (imagine right now a line of innocent Jews being lined up outside a concentration camp and being shot in the face one by one) is also a real power. And we are ruled by our emotion. It affects everything we do and how we act. The only way to change it is to change our emotion. Usually done by thought. Thought affecting emotion, and emotion affecting thought. Drop the 'new age B.S.' mentality (or any mentality that will let you instantly pass an idea) and look at it for what it is.

The question is if the power of these emotions and thoughts hold can be so powerful that they imprint. That's where you can say the idea gets shaky but to say the word 'energy', as it applies to thought and emotion ,doesn't exist is, again, pretty ludicrous. It's an energy that rules our lives every day. Because we're basically walking minds. It's not sloppy new age waffle, pancakes, or Cheerios; it's psychology.

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A 64-year-old woman has reported to doctors at Geneva University Hospital the presence of a pale, milky-white and translucent third arm.

http://www.swissinfo...html?cid=655352

Is it just imagination or could it be that people do have a astral bodies.The body dies but the astral body goes on ?

Edited by docyabut2

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And to the non believers it will never be proven. And how many skeptics truly have an open mind about these things? What people don't realize is your mind filters out alot of what you see hear and smell automatically . This can be proven by blind folding your self for 1 hour.

As for evidence well. What counts as hard evidence? Not pictures, video, voice recorders, or instrument readings. So what is allowed? That's like telling a mechanic he cant use any tools to fix your car. Ask your self where science would be with out there equipment.

Ghost hunters are up against so many variables its unpredictable whether or not your going to get anything in the first place. Then skeptics and non believers. That wont except what they do get do to the many frauds out there trying to get a couple min of fame.

I have a challenge for the non believers . Become a ghost hunter for a few months. Go buy about $1500 worth of equipment out of your own pocket. And spent countless hours hunting and reviewing our own stuff. To be told your faking evidence and ridiculed. Then ask your self why? If ghosts don't exist then why do we do it?

Except a mechanic knows exactly how an engine works, how and why his tools work, and how to actually fix the thing if it's broken.

Ghost Hunters know none of this.

As to why you do it? For the chicks perhaps?

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Energy is not just a description of a system. That's one meaning of a word that has multiple, depending on the context. One is "exertion of vigor or power", which is the way I was using it. This is what people mean when using the word energy in this context.

Well, thats moving the goalposts slightly. At the end of the day, ghosts must be powered by something. They cannot be an extension of "thought energy" as this doesn't exist.

"Vigor and power" are linguistic concepts. You can do something vigorously but this makes no sense if you're trying to explain how the mind lives on after the body. It does it with "vigor"??? That doesn't mean anything.

To say there is no power to thought or power of emotion is ludicrous to me, but that is just your opinion, so I'll leave it at that.

It might well be ludicrous to you, but so what? Concepts such as "mental energy" are part of a new age set of ideas, and are a complete misunderstanding of what "energy" is.

To affect your, and others', situation, or other people's thoughts and mood with only your emotion is a real thing we all do. And the way someone can greatly affect you by simply putting a thought inside your mind (imagine right now a line of innocent Jews being lined up outside a concentration camp and being shot in the face one by one) is also a real power. And we are ruled by our emotion. It affects everything we do and how we act. The only way to change it is to change our emotion. Usually done by thought. Thought affecting emotion, and emotion affecting thought.

Yes, but what does that have to do with ghosts??

The question is if the power of these emotions and thoughts hold can be so powerful that they imprint. That's where you can say the idea gets shaky but to say the word 'energy', as it applies to thought and emotion ,doesn't exist is, again, pretty ludicrous. It's an energy that rules our lives every day. Because we're basically walking minds. It's not sloppy new age waffle, pancakes, or Cheerios; it's psychology.

Its not psychology, its fluffy and confusing. You're suggesting something with absolutely no basis on how it might actually work, and changing the uses of words from paragraph to paragraph.

What are you actually suggesting and how would it work???

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Energy is I would imagine the most important single concept in physics (maybe time beats it), but I have yet to see a definition that even begins to convey a sense of what it might actually be. I don't think it is a concept we can ever understand in an intuitive way -- in other words, long before quantum mechanics came to befuddle us, we had this concept to struggle with.

We should remember that while the word has been around a long time, the concept as we have it now is pretty much an invention of nineteenth century thermodynamics, when they worked out how it is conserved and how it nevertheless degrades as entropy increases.

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A 64-year-old woman has reported to doctors at Geneva University Hospital the presence of a pale, milky-white and translucent third arm.

I've had the same thing some months ago. I was meditating with some audio track, and looked to the right to see a blue-whiteish forearm and hand, outside of my physical one, sticking up. The hand was bent upwards and pointing back in the most unnatural and awkward way. It was so interesting.

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Energy is I would imagine the most important single concept in physics (maybe time beats it), but I have yet to see a definition that even begins to convey a sense of what it might actually be.

Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.

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Well, thats moving the goalposts slightly. At the end of the day, ghosts must be powered by something. They cannot be an extension of "thought energy" as this doesn't exist.

No goal posts have been moved. The idea suggests that "ghosts" are powered by thought/emotion. Hold on right there now. Is "thought energy" in this context a physical force that we can measure and test? No, it's in the mind. Try to understand and imagine here that every thought has its power. It affects things. It affects how we feel, how we think afterwards, what we might do. You know this is true, but say it doesn't have anything to do with ghosts. Well I think I've already said that the idea is that a strong enough thought/emotion can leave an imprint; a "ghost", or left over energy. What if you had the greatest time of your life somewhere, and left a bit of that energy there? What if you got murdered somewhere, and left some of this energy there? What would stick around?

That's what I, and others as far as I see, mean. Now if you want to say this doesn't exist, that's fine. But I'll wait until we can figure out the mind and its seemingly endless nuances of consciousness to make that verdict. Or we can all say it's fluff and ignore it and measure physical things we can see. But I don't think that would be healthy in the long run.

"Vigor and power" are linguistic concepts. You can do something vigorously but this makes no sense if you're trying to explain how the mind lives on after the body. It does it with "vigor"??? That doesn't mean anything.

Yes, emma_acid, it does it with "vigor". That's the idea, at least. If a powerful energy is put out, be it a thought or emotion, if it has enough energy (/vigor/power) it can imprint to a setting or person. You're starting to see what I mean now by energy? Not electricity, not combustion. An intensity someone has put out. Believe that or not, but I'm just trying to get you to understand the distinction. It's not at all a misunderstanding of meaning. I never change any uses of words; you just keep going back to your definition of energy, and trying to use it against mine, saying I am changing it.

I'm not suggesting anything myself. I put up a video about a passing theory of someone about ghosts being an artifact of cyclical time...

[media=]

[/media]

...and he mentioned the word energy in passing in it, which someone replied to asking about that energy, which I was then questioned on for some reason.

I'm just attempting to explain the concept now, but it wasn't even the idea I myself intended to originally put forward, which is that these "ghosts" we could be seeing are simply past, present, and future blending at moments.

Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.

That's physics. Which happens to have the term energy in it, which is where the problems come when talking about a non physical vigor of consciousness, and having to relate it to a physics heavy word. There really isn't a better word I can think of to relate though, yet it seems to make people dig themselves into a hole in your eyes.

Edited by _Only

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Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.

Ah, you've had high school physics.

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Imagining that the above theory is true, I don't think "ghosts" even have to be dead at all. "ghosts can just as easily be alive, from the past, or for the future. Potentially even yourself, as talked about around 6 minutes into the video.

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I've always stuck with the idea that what science knows today will be different tomorrow. Even so the idea of ghosts seems confusing. The human population is somewhere around 6.5 billion, we have personal technologies that no one could have dreamed of just 30 years ago and yet with more people and better tech there is still no solid evidence of ghosts (or most of the paranormal things out there). Too many times I have heard of places that are supposed to be so haunted and yet there is never an attempt to quantify that statement. I have a friend that owns (or owned, not sure if he still does) a very well known "haunted house" in Indiana. He knows I am a skeptic and I was talking to him about it. Of course he is/was never going to try and find out what the nature of the haunting is (prosaic versus unknown) since it makes him money. I joke with my wife about these programs that always are investigating haunted bars, restaurants inns, bed and breakfasts and the like. Nothing like free advertising and drumming up business for people who want to have a bit of fun visiting a haunted public building. The area I live in has a haunted restaurant that is called Ashley's (formerly Gentlemen Jim's). It's on some of the haunted places registries. My brother worked there, nothing to report. I have been there, it is an old railroad station turned into a restaurants...that is all, old building=haunted place. With the BILLIONS and BILLIONS (sorry Carl) of people who have died over the thousands of years we should be swimming in ghosts and there should never be a moment of peace.

The human imagination and all of it's abilities and lack there of make our perceptions less than perfect. That alone should explain most, if not all, sightings.

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