Obamacare average $20K per family!

[ninjadude]

now you'll pay a lot more in taxes for other ppl policys,

I know conservatives believe this. Please prove it.

[aztek]

your pay stab will prove it when obamacare kicks in. but for now you can consider me wrong, I don't care one bit.

[Stardrive]

They're going to be taking a lot of money out of circulation via the IRS and health insurance companies. Anyone care to make a prediction on the impact this will have on the economy? Buckle up boys and girls, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. The politicians wouldn't care until their portfolio's crash and burn.

[ninjadude]

They're going to be taking a lot of money out of circulation via the IRS and health insurance companies.

what do you base this outlandish and incorrect statement upon?

[AsteroidX]

what do you base this outlandish and incorrect statement upon?

What do you base his statement as being incorrect on ?

[Gromdor]

Who cares if it is in circulation or not? Half the money today is just numbers on a computer screen.

[ninjadude]

What do you base his statement as being incorrect on ?

he made the claim.

[AsteroidX]

he made the claim.

emperical evidence has been given by ND. Pack it up and lets go home boys and girls. Obamacare is safe and we should except all these great gifts the King has bestowed upon us.

OR

Lets get real.

Edited February 11, 2013 by AsteroidX

[The Unseen]

This is tyrant actions here, forcing the will on the people instead of giving them a choice. Obama has crossed the line.

Ugh.Your just noticing that? I cant even find a full time job because no one wants to have to pay Obama care,Heck I cant even find a job.No one is hiring.Life sucks then you get kick in the balls buy employers then Obama care finnishes you off.We just aren't going to win here.

[Esoteric Toad]

I opposed the idea of Obama said plan solely from the standpoint that it was rushed.

For those that completely oppose it though I have a situation that I never imagined could happen. My wife is severely physically disabled. She had only worked seven or eight years and would have been entitled to less than 400 dollars a month. That didn't matter since Social Security denied her disability, completely (no more appeals). I was laid off in 2011 and due to my wife's health she requires care 24/7. We have used every bit of savings and have nothing left. Some of her medication can be provided from the pharmaceutical companies but many are not. My wife is eligible for Medicaid but many doctors do not accept it. I have no insurance and the specialist in see once a month charges 220 dollars a visit. Right now we have zero income. There is no way people with serious medical issues can survive as the system is now. When I did have medical insurance everything was wonderful. Now it is apparent that you must lose everything in order to cash in on the entitlements that never allow you to get back on your feet again. This is from someone who has been on both sides of the fence.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Esoteric Toad

[Gromdor]

There are countries out there with 40% unemployment rate. High unemployment might be the new norm. Labor costs are always increasing but luckily for companies so is productivity. What used to take a hundred people to make now takes ten. With automation and technology advances this trend will continue. Need is what drives hiring and as long as their is no need, there will be no hiring. I know it sucks, but sadly, that's the harsh reality.

[+joc]

There are countries out there with 40% unemployment rate. High unemployment might be the new norm. Labor costs are always increasing but luckily for companies so is productivity. What used to take a hundred people to make now takes ten. With automation and technology advances this trend will continue. Need is what drives hiring and as long as their is no need, there will be no hiring. I know it sucks, but sadly, that's the harsh reality.

The harsh reality is that Obama killed this economy!

[ninjadude]

I opposed the idea of Obama said plan solely from the standpoint that it was rushed.

it was not rushed. It was available and debated for over a year.

[Mr Right Wing]

Geez. Was just thinking that $20,000 is the minimum cost for a plan no matter what your income. What are people supposed to do? Oh yea, get government assistance.

Its only $5000 the other $15000 is to pay for everything that comes with socialism - High state employee wages, unions reducing productivity and all the beauracracy.

[F3SS]

it was not rushed. It was available and debated for over a year.

It was talked about for a year. It was impossible to debate the actual bill because we had to pass it to see what was in it. And when it came down to it it was absolutely rushed on Christmas Eve when no one was paying attention. There was so much uncertainty about the bill, our officials didn't read it, we had many questions still and yet 'It had to be done RIGHT NOW! So we can get out on Christmas break so we don't have to hear the scrutiny!'

Still today uncertainty looms over the law.

[ninjadude]

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

[F3SS]

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

Ok Mr. Sensitivity.

[AsteroidX]

Yet again fact driven ND. I applaud your insight and have sent in my forms to the Feurher I mean President to join his program of socialized medicine.

[Zaphod222]

It is going to be much more expensive than that, and that is not even counting the additional costs of giant new government bureaucracies plus the inevitable waste created.

I found the arguments for Obamacare ludicrious from the start. I can completely see that one can make a valid philosophical point that healthcare should be government-run. In fact, I am sympathetic to that. But to claim at the same time that something will become cheaper by nationalizing is complete idiocy. That is an impossibility by definition. Government bureaucracies can NEVER deliver anything more efficiently than a free market can. Just look at those fantastic examples of smooth, money-saving efficiency like the Post office, the DMV, or the military. Good grief!

Yes, national healthcare is probably something that should be done in the name of fairness, but by implementing it you have to acknowledge that the cost will be high and the general standard will go down.

In the case of Obamacare, the politicians have managed to get away with a complete and utterly bizarre claim, and have never really had to explain it. Go figure...

Edited February 12, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Gromdor]

The harsh reality is that Obama killed this economy!

With stocks breaking 14000 and some companies still making record profits, I'm going to have to say that the economy is doing okay. It's the worker's place in this new economy that is in trouble.

Its only $5000 the other $15000 is to pay for everything that comes with socialism - High state employee wages, unions reducing productivity and all the beauracracy.

Heh, this is the first time I heard that government workers and unions were driving up the costs of healthcare. Darn unions making you pay 50$ for a box of kleenex at the hospital!

[Zaphod222]

With stocks breaking 14000 and some companies still making record profits, I'm going to have to say that the economy is doing okay. It's the worker's place in this new economy that is in trouble.

Gee, "some companies still making record profits"..... well, then the economy must be alright, no? Talk about simplistic thinking. Here is a piece of news for you: A company MUST turn a profit, if it wants to stay alive. A "profit" is not some sensational event, but simply a necessary part of survival. And your "14000" is an arbitrary number. 14000 what? Dow Jones index? That is simply an average figure for the trade value of some papers representing a fiat currency. Heck, if your government continues to devaluate the currency, the Dow can go to 140,000,000,000,000 and that still means diddly squat.

I recommend a primer on basic economic facts, and to go easy on simplistic political talking points.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Gromdor]

Okay fair enough, the economy is growing, not receding and we are still the worlds number one economy. If that is the definition of dying then I guess I don't understand economics.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Gromdor

[Zaphod222]

The above is complete BS, untrue, false, etc. You've been listening to Fox and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

Err, actually, your comment is complete BS. I suppose you have been listening to MSNBC and other idiots who have no idea what they are talking about (other than parrotting party talking points).

[Zaphod222]

Okay fair enough, the economy is growing, not receding and we are still the worlds number one economy. If that is the definition of dying then I guess I don't understand economics.

I don´t know your definition of "dying", but the US economy is shrinking and has just been overtaken by China. And the astronomic amount of debt that you have amassed (both government and private) will have to be paid one way or another, which makes your economy look very iffy indeed. Of course, you can enjoy the party as long as it lasts.

[Gromdor]

China is slated to be the worlds largest economy in 2025 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9655058/China-to-be-worlds-biggest-economy-by-2025.html. This is unavoidable.

Japan has debt equal to 229% of its GDP. The US is currently at 102%.

There are definately problems with America's love of the credit card economy but that is a different discussion. And sadly, there is even money to be made in collecting debt.

As for the economy shrinking by .1% last quarter, there is argument about even that http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/08/the-u-s-economy-probably-didnt-shrink-last-quarter-after-all/.

The economy is not perfect and I never claimed that it was doing great but it is not "killed" as joc claimed and which you seemed to be supporting by your posts. Hence the "economy is doing okay".