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Obamacare average $20K per family!

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No it is saying that you DO NOT have to pay a penalty at all IF the least expensive plan in your area exceeds 8% of your income. In other words, if the cheapest plan in your area is more than 8% of your income and you decide not to get that plan then you do not have to pay any penalty. I don't know why it is not telling you how much a plan costs.

Exactly. No one ever has to pay more than 8% of their income to satisfy the individual mandate.

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Yes but theres this caveat on your 8% theory and the plan it regards.

The lowest-cost bronze plan, which is far less comprehensive than typical employer policies,

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I all ready have health insurance through my primary employer.I have a second job with a major retail corporation but not doing the health care through them.

Fortunately there is just me and the cats. How in the world are the unemlpoyed supposed to have health care unless they take it out of their checks.

What about all the illegal aliens the rest of us are founding? Is the government going to get on their backsides? Of course not.Everyone is screwed.

All for national health care;but they should have looked at how it's funded in Germany;Sweden;Canada;etc.And come up with something on similar lines.

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I believe that when ObamaCare fully kicks in, ppl will be paying 3 times as much as predicted. If you are "middle class" you will get ObamaCare free, also the free Obama cell phone, lol.

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How in the world are the unemlpoyed supposed to have health care unless they take it out of their checks.

unemployed can continue to get health care by paying COBRA premiums.

There are few changes. http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-healthcarereform.html

What about all the illegal aliens the rest of us are founding? Is the government going to get on their backsides? Of course not.Everyone is screwed.

All for national health care;but they should have looked at how it's funded in Germany;Sweden;Canada;etc.And come up with something on similar lines.

Illegal aliens are specifically excluded from the Affordable Care Act. So that is really nothing to do with anything.

On your other idea, the government has deported more illegal aliens in the past 4 years that the previous decade before that, combined. The border is "secure", there is a negative immigration flow to mexico.

Because those with "cadilac" health plans will pay more - does not mean "everyone" is screwed.

And finally, Obamacare is not National Health care. Which is what most other industrialized nations have. The republicans would not allow it.

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I believe that when ObamaCare fully kicks in, ppl will be paying 3 times as much as predicted. If you are "middle class" you will get ObamaCare free, also the free Obama cell phone, lol.

You could say a million times but it would be wrong. And middle class does mean something, by definition they will not get Obamacare free. The free cell phone could just as well be called the Bush cell phone as it happened on during his administration.

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So in a year when I get married and piggy back off of my wife's work sponsored health care if the cost of that plan isn't equal to 8% of our combined income then what? We are gonna be penalized? Will we need written statements from her work that says how much the plan costs? Why are these questions still being asked? Why is it so complicated? Why weren't all these issues made plain and clear when selling the bill? Why should I comply? What if I don't? What percentage of the country actually has a clue about any of this shlt? Who all hates this crap?

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I think Americans might do well to sit back and wonder what is wrong with their system. I offer no diagnosis except maybe too many lawyers, which only slightly explains it, but health care there seems a royal mess and getting worse.

I am diabetic, and although I no longer need insulin thanks to medical progress, I still have a regimen of pills I must take regularly for this and blood pressure and angina and my hay fever. At the same time I handle major medical costs of my extended family, and recently paid for major surgery (implantation of a metal pin) for one nephew from a motorcycle accident and an appendectomy for a daughter.

We have no insurance (there is an irony in Vietnam that if you have insurance you are viewed as second-class -- it is gov't insurance and slow to pay) so we pay cash for everything. This is cash up front with a refund if the estimate is too high (it always is). The appendectomy was $78 usd, the treatment of two weeks in hospital for the accident and the surgery was a little under $600 usd, and my ongoing medical visits (monthly) and prescriptions come to less than a hundred usd each month (actually closer to $80 usd). A few years ago I had major surgery on my knee from an old wound that went on for several hours and cost me less than $300 usd (there has been some inflation since then, I suspect it would be maybe 20 pct more today.

Now, Vietnam is a rough country to be sick in; no money up front, no treatment. For this reason families are prepared for this sort of problem and there is an elaborate support network of Buddhist and other charities, family support and savings. I feel sure this is a major reason costs are lower -- people pay attention to what things cost. Yet health care results here are good and rapidly getting better.

The government is actively involved, with all kinds of subsidies (medical education, hospital construction, special overseas training, free vaccinations, and so on), so this helps keep prices down, as well as the fact that pharmacists can distribute almost any drug without prescription and that the government buys the most common medicines bulk and distributes them at cost.

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So in a year when I get married and piggy back off of my wife's work sponsored health care if the cost of that plan isn't equal to 8% of our combined income then what? We are gonna be penalized?

No. I don't think so. you will have insurance. The penalty is for NOT having health insurance.

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So in a year when I get married and piggy back off of my wife's work sponsored health care if the cost of that plan isn't equal to 8% of our combined income then what? We are gonna be penalized? Will we need written statements from her work that says how much the plan costs? Why are these questions still being asked? Why is it so complicated?

It's not complicated. You're making it complicated.

If the health insurance available to you is unaffordable, then you can forgo it and face no tax penalty (and in fact in that situation your wife would become eligible for federal subsidies to go buy her own insurance independent of her employer; you'd both also be able to buy catastrophic plans that are generally reserved for people under 30 if you wanted to).

The threshold at which it's deemed unaffordable is 8% of your income. That means if having health insurance requires you to pay 8% or more of your income, you're not subject to the individual mandate penalty. You can still buy the insurance if you want, you can choose to not buy it if you want. But there's no penalty for opting not to in that situation.

I don't know why you're interpreting this number to be some lower limit, as it's the opposite--you never have to spend any more than 8% of your income.

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See I understood it as you have to spend at least 8%. But is that gross or adjusted income?

It's not that I'm trying to make it complicated. It may not be rocket science but it isn't simplistic. Also, it's a major hassle. Lastly, the sole reason I know anything at all about obamacare is from these discussions. Otherwise, just an occasional web article. Sassy what you will about that but does anyone honestly believe that very many people know anything about this except for the snake oil sales pitches used to try and sell it?

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See I understood it as you have to spend at least 8%. But is that gross or adjusted income?

It's not that I'm trying to make it complicated. It may not be rocket science but it isn't simplistic. Also, it's a major hassle. Lastly, the sole reason I know anything at all about obamacare is from these discussions. Otherwise, just an occasional web article. Sassy what you will about that but does anyone honestly believe that very many people know anything about this except for the snake oil sales pitches used to try and sell it?

No you are wrong. Here is what we are saying in simple terms:

If the least expensive health insurance plan offered in your region costs 8% or MORE of your adjusted gross income (AGI) then you will NOT be subjected to ANY penalty if you choose to not purchase health insurance.

if the least expensive health insurance plan offered in your region costs LESS THAN 8% of your adjusted gross income then if you choose not to purchase health insurance you will be subjected to a penalty with the exact amount of the penalty varying from person to person depending on family size, income, etc.

So in other words you will not be forced to spend more than 8% of your income on health insurance, unless you want to.

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How good is this lowest tier 8% of my income insurance ?

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How good is this lowest tier 8% of my income insurance ?

That all depends on where you live, your age, your family size, if you qualify for any government subsidies to help you pay for your care, etc. Good luck trying to figure out the exact answer to your question, and if you do figure it out, please let me know!

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How good is this lowest tier 8% of my income insurance ?

Good point. It probably sucks.

That all depends on where you live, your age, your family size, if you qualify for any government subsidies to help you pay for your care, etc. Good luck trying to figure out the exact answer to your question, and if you do figure it out, please let me know!

See, not simplistic. One things for sure... Not a bit of this was known when the bill that the majority of the American people wanted passed. I stand by one verdict, it's all crap.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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Good point. It probably sucks.

See, not simplistic. One things for sure... Not a bit of this was known when the bill that the majority of the American people wanted passed. I stand by one verdict, it's all crap.

I agree, but our healthcare system was all crap before Obamacare anyways. At least now more people will not go bankrupt because of unexpected medical bills and insurance companies cannot just refuse to pay your bill because of some pre-existing condition that they dream up and say you have.

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It's not that I'm trying to make it complicated. It may not be rocket science but it isn't simplistic. Also, it's a major hassle.

For most people, most of this stuff doesn't matter because virtually nothing is changing for them. Most people with private insurance are in employer-sponsored plans and that will continue to be the case. Anything they need to know about their health plan or anything that might affect them, they'll learn from their employer during the regular open enrollment process. But for the most part not much will change for them.

People who don't have coverage through work will get access to an exchange. The whole point of exchanges is to make all of this, from the actual comparing and buying of insurance plans to finding out what help is available for people, very easy and very intelligible. Markets don't work if people don't have the information they need, when they need it, and in a form that's intelligible and meaningful. That was one of the big problems with the way things were for people who had to buy insurance on their own, and fixing that is going to be a big part of what improves under the way things are going to be.

Lastly, the sole reason I know anything at all about obamacare is from these discussions. Otherwise, just an occasional web article. Sassy what you will about that but does anyone honestly believe that very many people know anything about this except for the snake oil sales pitches used to try and sell it?

You're the one that said people yearn for specifics. The specifics are available if people care to look for them.

The Kaiser Family Foundation's Health Reform Source has lots of information.

HealthCare.gov obviously has plenty of information.

Even just spending some time with the Wikipedia page for the Affordable Care Act would lay down some of the main points.

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Here's a little kindness from Obama that's sure to make everyone's life so much easier.

http://www.theblaze....how-tall-it-is/

Screen-Shot-2013-03-11-at-4.56.40-PM.png

Aw how thoughtful of you! Now please have that all translated into english (not lawyer legal jargon) and summarized in less than 100 pages that the average American can understand by this time next week. Thanks ;)

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ok. How big do you think the historical regulations are for say Social Security, the IRS or the Defense Dept? seriously, it takes like a small building. That? that is nothing. That's the problem with throwing up a straw man and hoping that people are outraged.

Edited by ninjadude

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ok. How big do you think the historical regulations are for say Social Security, the IRS or the Defense Dept? seriously, it takes like a small building. That? that is nothing. That's the problem with throwing up a straw man and hoping that people are outraged.

Nope you're wrong. I'm mad about all those too. Realistically 20,000 regulations pertaining to one damn law is bound to cause flubs and bound to make a law breaker out of anyone at any time with 50,000 reasons. It's suffocating and progress inhibiting.

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I'm mad about all those too.

good luck with that

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Thanks, I'll be ok.

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For most people, most of this stuff doesn't matter because virtually nothing is changing for them. Most people with private insurance are in employer-sponsored plans and that will continue to be the case. Anything they need to know about their health plan or anything that might affect them, they'll learn from their employer during the regular open enrollment process. But for the most part not much will change for them.

People who don't have coverage through work will get access to an exchange. The whole point of exchanges is to make all of this, from the actual comparing and buying of insurance plans to finding out what help is available for people, very easy and very intelligible. Markets don't work if people don't have the information they need, when they need it, and in a form that's intelligible and meaningful. That was one of the big problems with the way things were for people who had to buy insurance on their own, and fixing that is going to be a big part of what improves under the way things are going to be.

You're the one that said people yearn for specifics. The specifics are available if people care to look for them.

The Kaiser Family Foundation's Health Reform Source has lots of information.

HealthCare.gov obviously has plenty of information.

Even just spending some time with the Wikipedia page for the Affordable Care Act would lay down some of the main points.

One thing that I am hearing more and more of in my area that is happening, is that in grocery stores and other minimum wage or close to minimum wage jobs- they are cutting back employee hours and hiring more employees. By keeping employees under 29 hours per week, they avoid the Obamacare requirements. This is having the consequence of many more people working several part time jobs, and not getting any benefits for any of their jobs. And they will never be eligible for employer provided healthcare, or the expanded unemployment that they would otherwise be eligible for if they lost their job and it was full time.

In the coming months and hears, we will start to see the full scale of the largely unknown unintended consequences that Obamacare will cause. This is what scares me the most- the rest I know about and can plan for, but there will be a slew of unintended consequences, some of which are predictable, some of which will be totally unexpected. That is what I fear in regards to Obamacare. The cost- yeah I can handle that. Does not worry me a bit.

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One thing that I am hearing more and more of in my area that is happening, is that in grocery stores and other minimum wage or close to minimum wage jobs- they are cutting back employee hours and hiring more employees. By keeping employees under 29 hours per week, they avoid the Obamacare requirements. This is having the consequence of many more people working several part time jobs, and not getting any benefits for any of their jobs. And they will never be eligible for employer provided healthcare, or the expanded unemployment that they would otherwise be eligible for if they lost their job and it was full time.

In the coming months and hears, we will start to see the full scale of the largely unknown unintended consequences that Obamacare will cause. This is what scares me the most- the rest I know about and can plan for, but there will be a slew of unintended consequences, some of which are predictable, some of which will be totally unexpected. That is what I fear in regards to Obamacare. The cost- yeah I can handle that. Does not worry me a bit.

Gee, no one seen that coming. This' been one of my earliest realizations and arguments against Obamadontcare. The lefties are dreaming if they think employers are going to figure out how to make less money in order to keep everyone insured.

My dad was just telling me how his company has been meeting with a lawyer concerning their future direction with obamacare and he said the lawyers best knowledge ATM is that in cases where companies hire more part timers to spread the hours eventually some IRS or federal pencil pusher will be sent in to determine if two people have been hired to do the work of one full time employee. If it is determined that that is the case the company will be fined. The fine will be the penalty cost of one employee who should be insured but isn't which is I believe $3000 BUT... times every employee in the company. Now I'm paraphrasing here but if the info he got is true the government will come in and determine how you should run your business and if they don't like it you'll get a fine of $3k x 50 employees for example. $150,000!!!!! Heads are going to roll. Lawsuits are going to fly. Sht will hit the fan. Business will shut down. Employees will be hired, fired or get a severe loss in hours and all the while be responsible for obtaining health insurance if their employers don't provide. Fines will ensue. Broke people won't afford the fines. A snowball of debt effect will take place because if you've got a fine to pay then you won't be able to afford the still dictated insurance you need to have. I've been more intricate and detailed in my thoughts on this in the last but nothing good is going to happen. Ultimately in the future some democrat is going to step up and tell the country with an apocalyptic sense of urgency that the problem is soooo severe that there's only one way to fix it. The vernment must step in and take over the healthcare system. Single payer, total control. Pre-planned endgame. Create a crisis. Take advantage of it.

Edit: I meant to add that it was said to be a multiplying fine for each instance that the company hired two for the price of one meaning that if they found four people doing the work of two than the fine would be $3000x50x2=$300,000.

True or not one major point you can take from this is all the uncertainty looming. Economies don't thrive on uncertainty. Gamblers do. And they especially don't thrive knowing that one way or another the future is likely going to cost extra money and headaches.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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