Is proof of alien life a risk to society ?

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Theres a Third possibility !

1.Who`s more advanced

2. WHo`s more hostile

3. Who`s taste the best !

Oh ! Oh ! and we shall not forget THe One that can hide the best is not on the menu !

Let's hope they fancy Chinese when they get here.

[Jacques Terreur]

I'm not a very religious person but, to me, it seams that if the universe is full of life it would point more towards a God/Creator. If there's just life here it would be more of a freak cosmic accident. Why would a deity make all this then just populate one little planet? Not trying to undermine anybodys beliefs but it does seam odd to me.

wouldn't that rather be the other way round? like....if life IS everywhere, it must be a common thing to happen? If we would turn out to be alone, wouldn't that be more "miraculous"?

[Abramelin]

Because we've done it.

We never did.

When was the last time we travelled to another star?

[Abramelin]

They are not supposed to answer any question as far as I know, they are thought experiments. What they illustrate is what life is something we need to think about, not just assume that because there are many stars that the Universe is teeming with life. To date, we have no evidence of other life. Even if we find a microbe on Mars, if it's signature matches that of life on earth, it is not really an Alien, it's an ancestor. The building blocks for life are abundant, but that does not mean they have been put together. And whilst life is likely to be abundant in the Universe Intelligent life, and that is what TSR is referring to, is not likely to be abundant according to the best minds on the subject.

We can say "we have no idea" and that is fine, but is someone says "The universe is teeming with life" well I am afraid there is just no proof of that, and these thought experiments should make one think, and consider, perhaps that is not the case after all.

Yes, as I said above it is a thought experiment, like Schrodinger's cat. It means we should think about blurting out "facts" about alien life, because any "Fact" on alien life is nonexistent. I had the same whine some time ago, I thought I was the last one to understand this as entirely a thought experiment. However it does provide tighter paramaters than the claim of "The Universe is Teeming With Life" because reality is, outside of this rock, we have not a clue, and UFO's are not proof that such life exists. Statistics say there should be other life. But teeming? Even the Universe has a Goldilocks zone. Not just planets in solar systems.

And, I bet rags to riches that it is more accurate than everything Stanton Friedman has ever had to say, tied in a bunch and folded over.

I figured some thought would not hurt when we are told the Universe is teeming with life, in fact, it is more curious that my post drew more attention than that silly claim to begin with. Curious. Why do you suppose that might be?

You heard the latest news about that Goldilocks Zone? Earth is NOT in it:

Earth and others lose status as Goldilocks worlds

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23118-earth-and-others-lose-status-as-goldilocks-worlds.html

.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Abramelin

[psyche101]

You heard the latest news about that Goldilocks Zone? Earth is NOT in it:

Earth and others lose status as Goldilocks worlds

http://www.newscient...cks-worlds.html

.

LOL, no I had not, cheers, that is rather silly isn't it, according to it, we are to hot to have liquid water, because clouds are not factored in? We know habitable zones are not restricted to suns, as is suspected with Europa and Titan. I wonder how they factor those in? I think I can safely say that Sedna is not going to be harbouring life though

I have a strong feeling that the new "definition" is going to have some changes yet.

Still, the Universe itself is suspected to also have a habitable zone, which makes sense when you consider evolution of the Universe.

[psyche101]

We never did.

When was the last time we travelled to another star?

Not meaning to nitpick, but did you not say "Great Distances In Space"? I would consider the voyager probes to come under that category.

[Manc_Lad]

It really depends on how it goes down. If scientists (And I'm assuming that this is what the article is getting at) can somehow prove there is an earth-like planet that is almost certain to sustain intelligent life then all the people that aren't completely stupid will be like " So there IS intelligent life in the universe, well what a shock" and the ignorant people/religious nuts will just brush it away as "not solid proof, bring me an alien, then we'll talk", knowing/hoping that possibility could never occur.

My point is that anyone with half a brain knows there is intelligent life out there, it's almost impossible for there not to be. The people that don't believe it will never believe it unless an Alien literally came to Earth and did a worldwide press conference stating "Hello Earth, I am what you call an "Alien", yes, I am literally an Alien. Check out this video of my home planet". We all know that's not going to happen so I don't think it would cause that much of a stir to be honest.

Alien popping down to Earth to say hello would be a big deal. Scientists proving exsistence of life, not such a big deal.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Manc_Lad

[ChrLzs]

My point is that anyone with half a brain knows there is intelligent life out there

Nice. I don't KNOW it - I suspect it, but I don't claim to know stuff until it is actually right there and exists.

Call me half-brained.

it's almost impossible for there not to be.

Oh wait. So you're not entirely convinced either????? Sorry, you've lost me, now..

We all know that's not going to happen

We? You are not speaking for everyone...

Alien popping down to Earth to say hello would be a big deal. Scientists proving exsistence of life, not such a big deal.

??? But you just said the first wasn't going happen? Sigh.

And obviously you are difficult to please. I think finding life on Mars, Venus, Titan, Europa or whatever, even if microbial, would be absolutely HUGE news.

[Capt Amerika]

I don't think the people on the planet will be affected by it.

I honestly believe the vast majority already believe its out there and therefore the discovery would be more of a confirmation than a surprise.

What i find offensive is that we have these world leaders and politicians talking like we are fragile minded lemmings that need to be kept in the dark to protect our fragile sensibilities.

If life is discovered, just freaking tell us.

Nothing is going to change.

Even Religious groups are coming to terms with the fact that Alien life forms likely exist.

Politicians are the only group that worry me.

[HDesiato]

You heard the latest news about that Goldilocks Zone? Earth is NOT in it:

Earth and others lose status as Goldilocks worlds

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23118-earth-and-others-lose-status-as-goldilocks-worlds.html

.

The article states we are now considered on the warm edge of the zone, (ALMOST too hot for liquid water) but definitely still in it.

Let's not start any rumors.

Reading these science articles you often run into

misleading titles or misinterpretation of the source material. I think this is one of those situations.

Edited February 5, 2013 by HDesiato

[Abramelin]

LOL, no I had not, cheers, that is rather silly isn't it, according to it, we are to hot to have liquid water, because clouds are not factored in? We know habitable zones are not restricted to suns, as is suspected with Europa and Titan. I wonder how they factor those in? I think I can safely say that Sedna is not going to be harbouring life though

I have a strong feeling that the new "definition" is going to have some changes yet.

Still, the Universe itself is suspected to also have a habitable zone, which makes sense when you consider evolution of the Universe.

It is said Europa has liquid water under its ice because of tidal forces caused by Jupiter, but Europa is a moon, and I don't think they are already able to detect moons at many light years distance.

And Titan... if it harbors life, it won't be anything we even expected in our wildest dreams because of its extreme low surface temperature.

[Abramelin]

The article states we are now considered on the warm edge of the zone, (ALMOST too hot for liquid water) but definitely still in it.

Let's not start any rumors.

Reading these science articles you often run into

misleading titles or misinterpretation of the source material. I think this is one of those situations.

This is what the article says:

Shockingly, Earth – which used to be smack-bang in the middle of our sun's habitable zone – is now a scant million kilometres away from the warm edge, so almost too hot for liquid water. Of course, we know Earth is robustly life-friendly – the mismatch is probably because neither definition accounts for clouds, which reflect sunlight away from Earth.

[Abramelin]

Not meaning to nitpick, but did you not say "Great Distances In Space"? I would consider the voyager probes to come under that category.

But it's still not even near a neighboring star.

[Capt Amerika]

The article states we are now considered on the warm edge of the zone, (ALMOST too hot for liquid water) but definitely still in it.

Let's not start any rumors.

Reading these science articles you often run into

misleading titles or misinterpretation of the source material. I think this is one of those situations.

Sounds to me like some University Professor needed to write a quick paper to keep his Government funding rolling in and this was an easy lift.

[HDesiato]

This is what the article says:

Shockingly, Earth – which used to be smack-bang in the middle of our sun's habitable zone – is now a scant million kilometres away from the warm edge, so almost too hot for liquid water. Of course, we know Earth is robustly life-friendly – the mismatch is probably because neither definition accounts for clouds, which reflect sunlight away from Earth.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but could they be referring to the inner edge of the HZ?

From provided Journal Reference:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1301.6674

"According to the new model, the water loss (inner HZ) and maximum greenhouse (outer HZ) limits for our Solar System are at 0.99 AU and 1.70 AU, respectively, suggesting that the present Earth lies near the inner edge."

[DONTEATUS]

Very interesting ! But until we have that Greet & Meet ! Im on the fence !

[Abramelin]

What else would one do though? Beyond looking at physics, heck, even quantum physics, we do have an understanding of space, if not an intimate knowledge of it. We know that E=MC2, we know what distances we are dealing with, we know how fast a photon can travel the Universe. What be the point in allowing for imaginary technology that nobody could ever possibly do more than dream about?

All we can say is that based on what we know now, certain things should not be possible or highly unlikely to have happened.

That's different from flatly saying things ARE impossible, period.

[Abramelin]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but could they be referring to the inner edge of the HZ?

From provided Journal Reference:

http://arxiv.org/abs...abs/1301.6674

"According to the new model, the water loss (inner HZ) and maximum greenhouse (outer HZ) limits for our Solar System are at 0.99 AU and 1.70 AU, respectively, suggesting that the present Earth lies near the inner edge."

Yeah, you're right: that does sound quite different from what the writer of the article made of it.

[Just Dave]

Disclosure?

Yeah, any day now isn't it.

Been hearing that crap for over 20 years. You will forgive me if I do not hold my breath.

Sad but true story....

[Just Dave]

On topic of disclosure.. I see it as whole bunch of government trash coming together on offical level and saying " YES WE HAVE DECEVIED YOU GOOD PEOPLE OF EARTH. we are now gonna alienate you from your bank accounts. " .. joke...If they were, if they havent they will most likely not tell you... the good leaders of earth.

In real we need to wait for guys with big telescopes to say " Yeeess it's there, coming to earth veeeery slowly, it is an alien!!

[Capt Amerika]

Stephen Greer? Really?

$500 for the premiere?

You can likely get front row seating on the day of the premiere for $20 a pair with free popcorn.

[Capt Amerika]

We never did.

When was the last time we travelled to another star?

Heck, we haven't even made it to the moon!

[nopeda]

Abramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:

We never did.

When was the last time we travelled to another star?

Not meaning to nitpick, but did you not say "Great Distances In Space"? I would consider the voyager probes to come under that category.

Still thinking small. What movie do you think he's plagiarising btw, and how?

[nopeda]

It may be more 'nuanced', but it also ignores Occam's Razor and adds a whole pile of other questions.. WHY don't they wish to? Why are they so bad at it, getting 'glimpsed' (in a way that is always not-quite 'proof') all the time? Are they also deliberately teasing us? And why are aliens more feasible than say, interdimensional beings or time travelers

If they exist they're apparently giving us hints of their existence before coming in direct open contact to let us ease into the idea. How controlled it is is a question, but imo the vast majority if not all actual sightings or crashed vehicles were deliberate on their part. When people see their air vehicles at night it's because they have lit them up on display, for example. Crop circles would be similar...

Since all matter is in the position and conditions it's in now, in order to "travel" back in time all matter would have to revert to the conditions and positions it was in at that time. That is, to "travel" as it's attempted to be portrayed in popular stories about the concept. But! In reality such stories don't really portray time travel for the individual, since if an individual traveled back in time say 200 years he would cease to exist. Instead of portraying the supposed traveler as actually traveling back in time that way, instead the portrayal is that everything else supposedly in the entire universe EXCEPT FOR the supposed traveler travels back to the positions and conditions it was in at the time supposedly being traveled back to. The idea is idiotic when considered in a realistic way like this. So is the idea of multidimensions of matter existing and occupying the same space.

[nopeda]

psyche101, on 04 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

What else would one do though? Beyond looking at physics, heck, even quantum physics, we do have an understanding of space, if not an intimate knowledge of it. We know that E=MC2, we know what distances we are dealing with, we know how fast a photon can travel the Universe.

No we sure don't, since we've never been far enough from this small area to have any idea what velocity light travels in different parts of the universe. At this point my impression is that we are in and have never been able to get out of and area where the velocity of light is "adjusted" by some thing(s) since all tests indicate that it always travels at the same velocity relative to THIS PARTICULAR PLANET. Most likely it's not this particular planet but this particular area, however large that area may happen to be. If light travels significantly faster outside of such an area it would explain why it appears that light from all sources impacts this area at the same velocity relative to the area but regardless of the velocity of the emitter relative to Earth/this area....