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Ben Masada

Job Versus Paul in Two Allegories

35 posts in this topic

Job was a bet between god and the devil. God won gee what a surprise.

No ST, in the case of Job, the devil lost. He won in the case of Paul. It is in the thread.

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So the entire New Testament was written or influenced by Paul, therefore it cannot be taken as a reliable source of information. Interesting. I guess we Gentiles are left out in the dark with no hope of ever having God in our lives?

Hey! Hold on my friend and don't let it go that fast! The reliability of the NT is for Gentiles. As a Gentile you are on the right place. But the truth is, as you say above, the entire NT was heavily influenced by Paul. What was not Pauline was discarded at the canonization of the NT. But if you are trying to reach the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you are taking the wrong road.

I brought up Psalm 51 as an example of why Christians serve God. We experience the joy of God's presence in the here and now. Resurrection is not the sole purpose for being a Christian. My goal as a Christian is to evangelize the lost and edify the church, thereby growing the kingdom of God. I suppose that since those are merely Pauline concepts, I have wasted the last forty years of my life, and have drawn dozens of people into a Hellenistic cult.

Not the sole purpose but one of the purposes for being a Christian. So, you are on the right place to seek God according to the gospel of Paul. (2 Tim. 2:8) I hate to have to agree with you on this one: Yes, 40 years of your life spent in a Hellenistic cult.

I must also have paranormal psychic power. I don't know how many times God has given me special knowledge to speak to a person's situation in order to help them through a troubled time in their life. I have been given, in my spirit, specific facts that I could not have otherwise known. However, since spiritual gifts are a fictional creation, it must be that I was actually reading their minds.

Well, that's a way to look at the issue of gifts. Psychic power. Balaam had it too although he could not pass the test of Isaiah 8:20. You know, where it says, "To the Law and the Testimony, if they don't speak according to this method, it is because there is no truth in what they say." Therefore, secular psychic power is a way out without having to wonder if you are doing the right thing.

May I ask you some advice? Paul speaks much about loving one another, serving one another, comforting one another, etc. Should I now avoid those types of activities? Or since I'm a Gentile, does it really matter what I do in God's name?

Absolutely not! Non-religious people perform those activities too. Just don't do them with an eye on afterlife rewards. But it does matter what you do in God's name. The Crusades were done in God's name. The Inquisition was worked out in God's name. And so forth.

Ben

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Well, that's a way to look at the issue of gifts. Psychic power. Balaam had it too although he could not pass the test of Isaiah 8:20. You know, where it says, "To the Law and the Testimony, if they don't speak according to this method, it is because there is no truth in what they say." Therefore, secular psychic power is a way out without having to wonder if you are doing the right thing.

I don't quite understand that last sentence. I'm not looking for a way out, nor am I wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

Absolutely not! Non-religious people perform those activities too. Just don't do them with an eye on afterlife rewards. But it does matter what you do in God's name. The Crusades were done in God's name. The Inquisition was worked out in God's name. And so forth.

I choose to continue doing what I have been doing, because I have verifiable proof from others that I have met needs and positively influenced the lives of hundreds of people. I do this not because of an expected reward, but because I have compassion for people who suffer. If there is a resurrection, I know where I'll be. If there is no resurrection, then I'll be on my deathbed knowing that I have helped people.

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I don't quite understand that last sentence. I'm not looking for a way out, nor am I wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

I choose to continue doing what I have been doing, because I have verifiable proof from others that I have met needs and positively influenced the lives of hundreds of people. I do this not because of an expected reward, but because I have compassion for people who suffer. If there is a resurrection, I know where I'll be. If there is no resurrection, then I'll be on my deathbed knowing that I have helped people.

No, the problem is not in what you are doing which is honorable and sublime but in the reason which is propelling you into doing it.

You are not called upon to change your behavior but what motivates what you do. Your case reminds me of the preacher who said, "Do

what I tell you and not what I do because I am a sinner too." That's the preacher that must be cast out.

Ben

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No, the problem is not in what you are doing which is honorable and sublime but in the reason which is propelling you into doing it. You are not called upon to change your behavior but what motivates what you do.

???? My motivation for what I do is my compassion for people. Why should I change that?

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Ben, did you actually read 1 Cor 15?

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So this is extra-Biblical? What basis does the story have for saying that Paul failed the test? I don't get the point.

I do have a slight problem with the idea of resurrection that maybe someone would also like to address. Buddhists say we are reborn -- that aspects of what was us go into a womb and become another person -- there is some continuity of existence there.

Star Trek has a device where people are transported from one point to another, presumably by being recreated atom by atom at the destination while being destroyed atom by atom at the origin. In this case, how do I know the new person is still "me?" There is no continuity of existence. The new me certainly thinks it is me, but the reality is that it isn't.

Now with resurrection -- if you are dead for awhile (non-existent) and then you are recreated in a different body but I presume with the same personality and memories, how can you know that the new entity is really you? The continuity of existence seems broken just as in Star Trek.

The spirit is never destroyed, only the flesh. I think that our awareness never really ceases, JMO, but we become aware of being in a new plane or dimension of existence. To try to explain Ben - he is devoutly anti Christian (again, IMO) and often attempts to bait or goad others into "discussions" about Christ being married, having children or being the illegitimate son of a Roman Centurion. At first he angered me, then I just had pity for the depth of disgust he seems to have for God.

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???? My motivation for what I do is my compassion for people. Why should I change that?

O gosh! I just said above that you are not called upon to change what you do. That's all right. Stay where you are and be a righteous Gentile. And God bless you too.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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Ben, did you actually read 1 Cor 15?

And more than several times. What would you like to discuss from 1 Cor. 15?

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The spirit is never destroyed, only the flesh. I think that our awareness never really ceases, JMO, but we become aware of being in a new plane or dimension of existence. To try to explain Ben - he is devoutly anti Christian (again, IMO) and often attempts to bait or goad others into "discussions" about Christ being married, having children or being the illegitimate son of a Roman Centurion. At first he angered me, then I just had pity for the depth of disgust he seems to have for God.

I am not anti-Christian; I am pro-Truth. Jesus declared that the Truth is the Word of God. (John 17:17) Then the Psalmist said that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) If the so-called truth forwarded by Christians is not according to the Word of God, I can't take the Christian side but the side of the Word of God.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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