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AsteroidX

US DEbt Limit Raised

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That is why gold is one of the best standards. Last thing we need is greedy men hording food. They know how to make gold profitable. Let them. In that skill we all would benefit. They would have to come to us for food, and for the things we create. Which is how we build trust.

Very much agreed in one way jinx you got me a bit ahead of the curb on that one lol,i honestly wouldnt give them a damn thing i would let them eat their gold haha

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We had the economy collapse and the central banks stepped in and stopped it.

In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/gold.htm

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Not true, Gold has a use and a value that can be trusted. That's the key to having an object based currency. If you no longer trust the person holding it the money is now worthless and that government cannot buy anything. That's why they froze the gold then got rid of the standard. We could make the government stop spending by making our money worthless then backing up somebody we can trust to manage that money. Now we can't stop and now our government won't stop being irresponsible. Coincidence I think not.

Well, actually you are both right. It depends on the depth of the crash. Gold can not be printed of course, so the government can not devalue gold the way it can devalue fiat money. At the same time, gold can not be eaten, so if you are imagining a total economic breakdown, gold also is of little value. In that case, you´d want to stock food. However, if you expect a total cataclysmic breakdown of society, forget food to.... instead prepare a canoe, a tent, weapons, and survival gear.

So.... no guarantee anywhere.

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We had the economy collapse and the central banks stepped in and stopped it.

I have to wonder what sort of scenario could happen where they couldn't do the same thing again.

I also have to wonder what exactly such a collapse would mean -- a 1930s style depression? If so the world would recover, probably after a good deal of civil unrest but civilization would persist.

Yes but frank we are the great mixing pot,i know your county has foreigner's but we have to many different groups with different ideologies all are american but there ideas of what america should be are very different.Even a 30's style depression could have grave consequences.

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It's not about the gold itself. It's about the trust put behind it that matters. It's a material object that we can control. We put more trust in the currency then gold then the value of gold will decrease, If the money lender lost our trust, then we remove his gold then gold will be worth more again. Stability is an issue if we are all gonna be stuck in the red.

Ok issue was the wrong word more like hindrance.

Money isn't a bad thing, it is just a tool to trade value for value, If you don't want to get paid for anything you do, well that is projecting that you are basically worthless. (Which we as a society seem to be pushing as an ideal these days. the whole People are worthless)

Edited by Jinxdom

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In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/gold.htm

Err, not quite. It is a ponzi scheme that is also propped up by the world´s biggest military, so kind of a ponzi scheme with aircraft carriers. That counts for a quite a lot, so Obama has still quite a lot of leeway to deficit-spend his way into never-never land, before the scheme collapses. Besides, what other currency are the dollar holder to flee to? Unlimited Keynesian phantasy spending is practised by so many governments today, it is kind of a collective race to the bottom.

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In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

Even when it was gold it was still a Ponzi scheme. If you want to have the currency backed up by something, back it up with productive assets (land, factories, schools, etc.). This is kinda what they do now without making it official.

When a currency collapses (because the people lose confidence in it) we see it in the form of hyper-inflation. This is typically a mass hysteria type of thing, since there is no reason, no matter how much money the government prints, for people to not use it, any more than there is no reason to not use a yardstick.

The past inflation that Volker had to stop with high interest rates was caused by unions and their demands; they have now been pretty much defanged, so the present Fed is getting away with printing money and throwing it out of airplanes and we still don't have inflation. One supposes at some time when unemployment gets low enough that a wage-price spiral will begin again, but it will be awhile, and they can deal with it various ways when it comes. The magic of all this is automation, which is rampant and keeping unemployment up.

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The situation in Vietnam is tightly managed, so one doesn't know exactly what may be developing. Land and real estate prices are dropping while wages are going up. The currency has been stable against the dollar now for several months after a devaluation last year of about 5%. Economic growth seems to have slowed substantially, but the official figures don't reflect this, at least yet (unlike in the past, the official figures are nowadays pretty reliable). I notice a considerable increase in food prices, especially for imports from Australia.

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Stability isn't a good thing when everybody is in the red.

Mass hysteria is also a joke. We need people to learn to take consequences for their own actions instead of leaning on other people to make their choices.

The world earned the state that it is in. Just because they listened to people they thought they could trust. Fun Fact, people who want power have a tendency to lie.

Oh Zap is right on that thing. Our money is backed by our Military and people wonder why the US is fighting all around the world. Right now we are the bad guys.

(Really need to spend a tad bit more time editing before posting :P)

The only guarantee in life is that you have to work to get what you need. The rest is built off of trust.

Edited by Jinxdom
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Stability isn't a good thing when everybody is in the red.

Mass hysteria is also a joke. We need people to learn to take consequences for their own actions instead of leaning on other people to make their choices.

The world earned the state that it is in. Just because they listened to people they thought they could trust. Fun Fact, people who want power have a tendency to lie.

Oh Zap is right on that thing. Our money is backed by our Military and people wonder why the US is fighting all around the world. Right now we are the bad guys.

(Really need to spend a tad bit more time editing before posting :P)

Nail on the head!People need to be responsible for themselves!If you have the right to do almost anything you want to do.......Then know the ups and downs of your decisions and be responsible for your actions!

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Fed is getting away with printing money and throwing it out of airplanes

Let me know next time there doing a drop in my neighborhood please

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I have to agree with Q here and im talking absolute collapse,the one that since tieing the world together will have an impact on all and everything.Food,water,and yes even lead will be worth more than gold to most.Only the ones who still have money will be worrying about gold the vast majority will care less.I am glad i have taken time out of my life to learn to grow food,fish,hunt and take care of myself no matter the situation.Honestly though those are things i just enjoy doing,but when survival is needed and necessary i will be ok to the best of my ability.

There will still exist a medium of exchange when the barter system proves unprofitable. It's common sense.

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There will still exist a medium of exchange when the barter system proves unprofitable

Depending who you ask bullets will hold more value then gold in the barter exchange sector.

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Depending who you ask bullets will hold more value then gold in the barter exchange sector.

God stop speaking hard truths, it's making my skin all tingly. :P

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Let me know next time there doing a drop in my neighborhood please

No, Bernankes helicopter flies only over banks. Who then lend it to Obama for spending.

So if you want to get some of that, you either own a bank or enroll into some government entitlement program.

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When a currency collapses (because the people lose confidence in it) we see it in the form of hyper-inflation. This is typically a mass hysteria type of thing, since there is no reason, no matter how much money the government prints, for people to not use it, any more than there is no reason to not use a yardstick.

Maybe 100 and even 25 years ago, you'd be right. But this is a global marketplace now. The reason for your bold statement is - there are alternatives. It's not that we don't use it, it's that we need to use many times more of it just to get the same trade. If that isn't worth hysteria, what is? People understand nominal value so well. If I steal dollars out of your account, that's a crime and I'll be prosecuted. But steal the value out of the same number of dollars that you have? That's being done legally every day right under our noses! And you think you have no reason not to use that currency? If you were prudent, you'd evacuate US dollar based assets and find safer alternatives. Holding dollars is the most pathetic idea for a portfolio on the planet right now, short of the Yen the past few months at least. I can hold gold, sell it on Ebay for at or above spot price, and then use the proceeds to buy whatever I want at a trade that preserved my value which means I don't get ripped off.

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Sorry man. I dont like to pull punches. And I get educated by people way more real then I lay it out. Even hear at UM Im always learning and growing. :tu:

(free shameless plug aimed at UM mods included)

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It's not about the gold itself. It's about the trust put behind it that matters. It's a material object that we can control. We put more trust in the currency then gold then the value of gold will decrease,

Not really a valid comparison. "Trust" in gold will never disappear; this shiny stuff has served this purpose the world over since mankind discovered it.

That it it is not a helpful barter medium in a true disaster situation is a different question. As I mentioned already, that depends on how catastrophic the situation gets.

If you simply worry about the eventual and inevitable blowback from the runaway expansion of fiat money supply, gold is a safe haven. Except, of course, that there is a good chance your friendly government will confiscate it in that case; they have done it before.

Edited by Zaphod222

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You really can't trust a material object in a philosophical sense. The fact that is there is enough. Which is the point. The Gold is a representation of your trust in where you put it. Trust is what gives currency value.

Since trust isn't an object that is in the real world but a bond between two people we need a representation of that trust. If you have nothing to take away you can no longer show you do not trust the currency and have nothing to take away it's purchasing power. Then this craptastic economy system based off of nothing but force happens.

The only way to take back your trust now will be with a bullet because now that is the only thing our system understands. I'd rather do it with gold, it's shiny and less bloody.

Ever hear the phrase my word is as good as gold?

Anybody see a pattern about the things they are took away and are trying to take away?

Edited by Jinxdom

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A medium of exchange would still be in the best interest of any individual engaging in a post crash market to avoid the inconveniences of a pure barter system.

good luck trying to collect that

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We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

you say that like it's a bad thing.

or news.

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We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/gold.htm

Under a gold standard, people will want to hold dollars, not gold. Under the current system of government fiat, people will want to hold gold, not dollars. In the article you link it references the dollar as the reserve currency of the world, another major bragging point that makes the US #1 in the world is the status of our currency. Will we be fool enough to believe that for the first time in world history, our currency is going to maintain that status for centuries? The problem with fiat currency is that it always goes to zero, as the dollar has been approaching already in the past 100 years. We're sheltered from that effect domestically just enough to let our banksters fool us into thinking there is no inflation but this won't be possible when our Asian enablers dry up their well and want to start to see some of their capital return to their shores as their economies turn from predominantly production and cheap labor to consumption and a more sophisticated standard of living. When they're consuming for themselves they won't need us anymore and the bills are going to come due and that's what's going to be one of the key features of the real crash to come. When 70% of China's market is consumption like ours is, the US consumer is who's going to get nailed. Those everyday low prices at Wal-Mart aren't going to be so everyday low anymore and our service economy will face the music on how few modern goods we can produce for our own consumption over here anymore.

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I think thats what I was trying to say by posting that link. :tu:

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