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keithisco

Millions of poverty-striken Bulgarians ....

38 posts in this topic

... here's a thought - IF 4 million Bulgarians, and who knows how many Rumanians come here, you can bet your life that they will vote to stay in the EU if a referendum ever materialises. If they vote Cameron, Clegg, and assorted cronies out at the next General Election then the UK remains in the EU (no other main party will allow a referendum)... So either way, those who want the UK to leave the EU are Royally Stitched Up.

What does this mean, taking the wider view, for Democracy when huge numbers of Economic and Poverty Migrants can dictate the course of State Elections? A State in which they have few or no roots, and even less Social, Cultural and Historic investment - but imbued with the Power to cast their votes..

The U.S. has been dealing with that problem for years now(illegal immigrants and their families).

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Sorry the country is full. Last thing we need is more cheap labour from Europe we've got our own problems to deal with.

Edited by yearofthehater
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I think the UK has got to do the UNTHINKABLE in EU terms. Keep the restrictions in place, pay whatever fines are levied (or not pay them) by the EU. Pay them or not, that is the UK's choice. I have enough experience of the Rumanians and Bulgarians in Spain to know that they have no interest in integration (I am talking of Poverty Immigration, and Criminal gangs now) that I would put up very strict Immigration, points scoring, systems.

Of course, Cameron, and cronies, have totally refused to engage in this most important of debates, they are more interested in deflecting attention towards a (never going to happen) referendum on EU Membership, the Falklands, Scottish Independence et al.

Somebody needs to start a campaign on the UK.Gov website to get this issue properly debated, to get the concerns of the current UK Citizens voice out there. Dont come complaining on UM, just do it!!

Keith your warnings will fall on deaf ears and your first hand account of the events you've witnessed will ultimately happen here in the UK. were powerless. its going to be interesting come this time next year we'll see the impact of the first wave coming over.

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Keith your warnings will fall on deaf ears and your first hand account of the events you've witnessed will ultimately happen here in the UK. were powerless. its going to be interesting come this time next year we'll see the impact of the first wave coming over.

Unfortunately, you are entirely right Steve! Expect the criminal Gangs and People Traffickers first, that is what happened in Spain, then the Povrty migrants who will be used and abused by them to create misery for the native population. Freedom of movement is a wonderful concept, but there should be a requirement for individual nations to have Convergence in Social Attitudes (just like there is a requirement to have convergence on Fiscal matters)..

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We need to stop this madness

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We need to stop this madness

It would be absolute madness on the Bulgarians end as well.

As anybody actually checked out the population of Bulgaria?

There is only 7.3 million souls there.

So if they let go of more than half of their population it's akin to committing hari- kari.

Not only will our infrastructure be compromised but there's also.

Under- population is just as bad as over- population.

So if they flee all will be left will be a wealthy elite.

You also might have a few manual workers on more than the minimal wage or whatever passes for it there.

You'll get ghost towns with only elected officials in charge and Sofia.

It makes you wonder how patriotic these Bulgarians actually are.

Like rats deserting a sinking ship.

Edited by Medium Brown
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Don't you live in Benidorm?

Why would it make any difference to you?

I see the "Express" papers as being quite Tory Conservative in their outlook.

I don't agree that with the rate of unemployment for UK residents that more imigrants can be a good thing, but I do feel that we have to look at the world as a "whole" and if others need help, or can benefit from coming to our country, then so be it.

I think there is a lot of "divide and conquer" when it comes to politics, and simply blaming imigirants for all our problems is daft.

First point (highlight mine) Yes, I do live in Benidorm and we have first - hand experience of just what having an open border with Romania and Bulgaria means. The sheer scale of the criminality you would need to experience for yourself. Likewise the enormous drain on Social Funds that this has caused and the damage they cause on a Society and it's Culture.

Second point (highlight mine again): Whilst the sentiment is admirable (no sarcasm by the way) we are talking about nations that have met the Economic Convergence Criteria to become full members of the EU. We are not tallking talking about 3rd world countries suffing under Dictatorship, or huge natural disasters, we are talking about (supposedly) affluent nations that do not do what they should do Socially to help their own people.

So my answer is simply "NO"... neither the UK nor the rest of the EU should take the place of Rumanian or Bulgarian National Social Security. It is an abject derogation of National Duty to slyly pass on their problems to other nations within the EU. Is this really the responsibility of the other EU Nations????

Edited by keithisco
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why is it we have to always take immigrants? Can't Germany, Italy or anyone else in europe take them?

I don't have a problem with immigrants, it's just no where for them to live or get jobs here.

i'm only thinking about the poor folks

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First point (highlight mine) Yes, I do live in Benidorm and we have first - hand experience of just what having an open border with Romania and Bulgaria means. The sheer scale of the criminality you would need to experience for yourself. Likewise the enormous drain on Social Funds that this has caused and the damage they cause on a Society and it's Culture.

Second point (highlight mine again): Whilst the sentiment is admirable (no sarcasm by the way) we are talking about nations that have met the Economic Convergence Criteria to become full members of the EU. We are not tallking talking about 3rd world countries suffing under Dictatorship, or huge natural disasters, we are talking about (supposedly) affluent nations that do not do what they should do Socially to help their own people.

So my answer is simply "NO"... neither the UK nor the rest of the EU should take the place of Rumanian or Bulgarian National Social Security. It is an abject derogation of National Duty to slyly pass on their problems to other nations within the EU. Is this really the responsibility of the other EU Nations????

Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.

One world, one race. I know I am in for a battering her, but it is how I am.

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why is it we have to always take immigrants? Can't Germany, Italy or anyone else in europe take them?

I don't have a problem with immigrants, it's just no where for them to live or get jobs here.

i'm only thinking about the poor folks

Simple answer is welfare state.

Apparently the Bulgarian Government has already asked for guarantee's we will house them, give them benefits and free health care.

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Don't you live in Benidorm?

Why would it make any difference to you?

I see the "Express" papers as being quite Tory Conservative in their outlook.

I don't agree that with the rate of unemployment for UK residents that more imigrants can be a good thing, but I do feel that we have to look at the world as a "whole" and if others need help, or can benefit from coming to our country, then so be it.

I think there is a lot of "divide and conquer" when it comes to politics, and simply blaming imigirants for all our problems is daft.

Ref your 2nd Para, so you are going to share your house, give an English speaking Bulgarian your job,to help them out ?You obviously don t live in a poverty stricken area, which you can find in any Brit city,and I honestly don't think that you realise what you have just said.Britain just cannot support a lot more immigrants without becoming the same as the countries they leave,and so we are being dragged down to their level, Charity begins at home me dear,and the poverty level in Britain is rising daily,or haven't you noticed people being made redundant and shops closing every day and businesses going bankrupt,houses being repossessed.
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Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.

One world, one race. I know I am in for a battering her, but it is how I am.

oh Jesus, I'll have whatever your having.

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Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.

One world, one race. I know I am in for a battering her, but it is how I am.

No "Battering" - promise :no:

If all Nations in this world held to the same principles in terms of Social Assistance, Welfare, and simple adherence to Governing for the benefit of their own people, then I would TEND to agree. However the grim reality is that outside of the Western World this seems not to be the case.

It is a truism that people who are downtrodden, impotent to enforce change in their own Nations, treated as fodder for the cannon, despised by their leaders - will always endeavour to enter those nations that, through centuries of their own Peoples struggles to achieve a tolerable level of life, appear to offer them something that they have not earned for themselves.

I am referring to those in any Western nation whose forebears made the struggle, suffered the hardships, and martyred themselves to give what the Western World has today. They have earned their right to decent life through their own endeavours. Look at England and latterly the UK, the people have been fighting and winning incremental rights ever since 1215ad (Magna Carta) - it was not given to them on a Plate,

To end, those from outside these Western nations do NOT have an instant right to enjoy the hard won freedoms and standard of life that those in the west enjoy. you cannot "Freeload" on the West. Instant Gratification is just not an option.

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