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Did we land on the Moon or didn't we ?

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William B Stoecker: America's manned space program began with Project Mercury, using Redstone and Atlas rockets to send men up on suborbital and later orbital missions. This was followed by Project Gemini, which used Titan rockets to launch two men at a time into Earth orbit, and included EVA (extra vehicular activity) missions where the astronauts actually ventured outside the spacecraft. Then came Project Apollo, using Saturn Five rockets to send men to the Moon... or so we are told. Apollo One was a ground test of the systems, and a fire broke out that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee. Gus Grissom was a critic of certain aspects of the space program, and he had nearly been killed before, when his Mercury capsule mysteriously sank into the ocean right after landing.

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No we didn't land on the moon. Nor did we discover the 'New World'. Australia, the Hawaiian Islands, the wheel, writing, the spoken word, electricity, combustion engines, telecommunications, that zany claim about the thing called "the internet", arrowplanes (what a silly notion), no man can survive going faster than 40 mph, aqualungs and a myriad of so called "in ven shuns" (I forgot, no New Zeeeland either....or China, or anything).

Those that do not believe we succeeded in landing on the moon are a55hats.

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Hahaha, yes of course we landed on the moon. They could fake the moon landings themselves — but they couldn't fake the Cold War paranoia beforehand, the one-upmanship that led to the first successful mission, or the euphoria demonstrated afterwards.

.

Edited by acute alan
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of course they were real

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Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?

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Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?

And why do you lump all Americans in with a few crackpots? 99 percent of the American public doesn't believe this hogwash.

99 percent of Americans aren't paranoid either. Maybe instead of watching TV and getting all your information off the internet.......you should get to know some Americans personally.

Only then will you find out that there is really only one true conspiracy we all believe in.

How that no-talent piece of amphibian excrement Dr. Phil actually landed his own TV show.

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Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?

Many Americans have a deep rooted mistrust of the "Government" seeing it as a remote powerful entity that seeks to control all aspects of their lives. Consequently you have a subset who will attribute anything and everything to a "Government conspiracy" thus leading to "Area 51, UFO's, 9-11 "truthers" etc. Every society has its whack jobs, but more importantly every society has a taste for the outlandish and bizzarre. Why do you think that there are so many tabloids like the "National Enquirer" or a myriad of celebrity mags perporting to "disclose' the secrets of the "celebrities" (Like I care who has cellulite, whether Oprah is gay, who is a secret agent for the CIA and of course who is feuding with who or cheating on their spouse)

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i dont expect this to be proof for anyone but here is my take.

I do not belive that we landed on the moon. At least not back then, i am sure we have by now. This is because my dad talked to one of the space dudes who was on the shuttel in a private interveiw and he said that it was all fake.

Which is not really that hard to belive we had ample motives to fake something like that. It was the cold war and russia was the one getting all the space flight achivements. So we had to step up

Edit: and for the recored i have not read the article yet. Will do soon. i apologize)

Edited by spartan max2

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Thread cleaned

Could we keep the comments on this article civil and constructive please.

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This post dedicated to the memory of MID.. Miss you, mate.

Time for a review of your article, William B Stoecker. Actually, it is going to be a rebuttal.

The title is "Did we land on the Moon or didn't we ?" Well, the answer to that question is YES.

Indeed, dear reader, if you have a bit of science knowledge, basic logic and decent research skills you should be able to work that out for yourself by examining the evidence .. properly. So we should first ask - why did Mr Stoecker ask that question? He must have a reason to be giving any credence to the notion that we didn't go... And playing devil's advocate - what if we didn't go, in other words, if NASA faked the Apollo missions..? Well, to put it mildly, the enormity of the hoax is beyond belief. In fact .. as I go through the article over the following few days and point out some easily verifiable facts, you will see that it would not just be an 'enormous' hoax - it was simply impossible to hoax. Later in the series of posts I will be making, I will point out the reasons why it CANNOT possibly have been hoaxed - there are quite a few.

Yes, we went to the Moon. It's as simple as that.

So let's go through the article, shall we? I invite William B Stoecker to join in this thread and debate the points I will raise. Before starting, it's worth noting that of the very, very few genuine 'Apollo deniers' that exist, even fewer ever defend their position or debate in public. They prefer to barricade themselves behind websites where they can completely ignore rebuttals, or hide behind the facade of Youtube, where they can delete comments and block anyone but the few trolls they attract.

I'm sure Mr Stoecker isn't like that, and will engage those of us who are knowledgeable on Apollo, space sciences, photography, etc.

So let's look at the content of the article, bit by bit. It starts well enough...

America's manned space program began with Project Mercury, using Redstone and Atlas rockets to send men up on suborbital and later orbital missions. This was followed by Project Gemini, which used Titan rockets to launch two men at a time into Earth orbit, and included EVA (extra vehicular activity) missions where the astronauts actually ventured outside the spacecraft.

While all that is correct, Mr Stoecker has been rather shy about the accomplishments of Gemini, which was designed as a testing ground for the later moon missions. So let's expand a little on this, as it will be very important later.. The entire reason for Gemini's existence was to work through all the make or break issues involved in a manned mission to the Moon. ALL of the essential techniques (with an exception outlined below) were not only explored and tested - they were proven, then practiced and perfected during Gemini.

In particular, the Gemini missions covered:

- EVA techniques (in other words, working outside the spacecraft in a vacuum and low/zero G)

- 'long' duration missions, including checking things like radiation exposure, environmental systems and shielding techniques

- simple orbital maneuvers, such as re-aligning an orbit to allow rendezvous

- advanced orbital maneuvers including 'full re-acquirement' and also manual and assisted docking techniques

It is also worth noting that the Gemini missions were done in Earth orbit, obviously.. orbiting the Moon is a much simpler task - 1/6 gravity..

Much came before Gemini of course, but here are the important milestones that were achieved during this very successful program.

Gemini 1 - first general unmanned test flight to test booster and overall spacecraft design - successful

Gemini 2 - sub-orbital unmanned test of systems and heat shields - successful

Gemini III - first manned flight to test environmental systems and radiation exposures, three orbits - successful

170px-Ed_White_with_Space_Gun_maneuvering_unit.jpg[Ed Whites first EVA, June 1965]

Gemini IV - four day flight, included first EVA - a 22 minute space walk - successful

Gemini V - eight day flight, introduced fuel cells for higher efficiency electrical power, tested all navigation & rendezvous systems, 120 orbits - successful

(Gemin VI - mission scrubbed and rescheduled as Gemini VIA when the Agena target to be used for docking practice failed)

Gemini VIA - 2 day flight for rendezvous & station-keeping practice at same time as Gemini VII - successful

Gemini VII - 14 days, tested all systems for long term mission, also practiced rendezvous and station-keeping systems - successful

170px-Gemini_7_in_orbit_-_GPN-2006-000035.jpg[Gemini VIA and VII rendezvous - December 1965]

Gemini VIII - 2 days, full rendezvous and successful docking system test but a misfiring thruster caused a mission abort - Armstrong was able to recover control of craft but mission was cut short as a safety precaution

Gemini IX - 3 days, perfected various types of rendezvous and docking procedures, also 2 EVA's, 44 orbits - successful except for minor issues with 'dummy' docking craft

Gemini X - 3 days, more system checks and test of augmented Agena rocket systems, over an hour of EVA's, 43 orbits - successful

Gemini XI - 3 days, set altitude record, more rendezvous and docking tests, proof of radiation safety, 44 orbits - successful

Gemin XII - 4 days, more tests of rendezvous and docking, Aldrin set record for longest EVA - successful

All of that happened over a period spanning 1965 and 1966. And as you can see, virtually *everything* that the Apollo program needed was tried and tested, except for actually going there! All that was required was a maneuver called a TLI (trans lunar injection) to push the spacecraft onto an elliptical orbit that would just happen to go near enough to the Moon to then readjust into a lunar orbit, and then .. the actual descent to the Moon.

(In case you are wondering, I'll come back to radiation and why it wasn't an issue, in *great detail* later..)

These were not particularly difficult maneuvers - we had already sent many spacecraft outside orbit, and of course the moon only has 1/6 of earth's gravity, so orbiting it and descending and ascending is a whole lot easier than doing the same stuff from earth orbit. Especially given that all the re-acquisition, rendezvous and docking procedures had already been tested - Gemini had nailed that stuff easily - why, just ask 'Dr Rendezvous'. (More about who that is later...)

So a question for Mr Stoecker, before I proceed .. - does he deny that Mercury and Gemini happened as history records them?

And does he dispute anything at all that I have said above?

BTW, if anyone thinks I have missed something important or wishes to debate anything I have posted to date, please feel free - but .. do your homework first.

Edited by Chrlzs
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This post dedicated to the memory of MID.. Miss you, mate.

...

Very good post, Chrlz. Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for Mr. Stoecker to get back to you, but I would most appreciate to be positively surprised.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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You are not missing anything, Mr. Stoecker is.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Alright, thanks

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The remnants of the landings

Why were these not mentioned? Am i missing something?

http://www.space.com...-sites-lro.html

I don't think a conversation with a nut can be productive. Wonder why the doubters never try to explain the visible evidence.

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Ready whenever you are, Mr. Stoecker...

BTW, may I offer a suggestion that perhaps you might wish to write a followup article, one that makes it quite clear what your point actually is. And in that article you could also correct all the errors - both yours and those from the Aulis site - that you included. It would be better if you withdraw those errors before I expose them in full detail, surely...?

I'll leave it at that for the moment, and wait a day or so before my next post..

Again, does anyone have any issue with the correctness of what I have posted so far?

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Ready whenever you are, Mr. Stoecker...

BTW, may I offer a suggestion that perhaps you might wish to write a followup article, one that makes it quite clear what your point actually is. And in that article you could also correct all the errors - both yours and those from the Aulis site - that you included. It would be better if you withdraw those errors before I expose them in full detail, surely...?

I'll leave it at that for the moment, and wait a day or so before my next post..

Again, does anyone have any issue with the correctness of what I have posted so far?

No issues at all. I am tired of people re-hashing this whole nonsense. I am happy to present Chapter and Verse on the way that Functional Safety (Design Level) has changed out of all recognition to the accepted norms of the Apllo Programme (and Mercury before).

There were deaths, that there were so few is a miracle in itself, but none of them could be described as "mysterious". The causes are well known and documented, and entirely credible.

Edited by keithisco

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Yes, we did. The astraunts experienced other things as well. But, I refuse to tell you what they are. Because I know I will be ridiculed if I tell you so I'm just gonna say that they did land on the moon and that is all.

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Yes, we did.

Correct.

The astraunts experienced other things as well.

'Astronauts' - Yes, they did - you can read all about the vast range of things they experienced, in the extensive and comprehensive journals.

But, I refuse to tell you what they are.

You don't need to. The journals exist and cover everything* in extraordinary detail. Here you go:

Apollo Flight Journals

Apollo Lunar Surface Journals

and all that you find there is just a *tiny* part of the immense amount of documentation that exists and that, inexplicably, some folks just can't seem to (be bothered to) find..

Because I know I will be ridiculed if I tell you

We're not allowed to ridicule here. If you have something to present, please do so - if it is wrong, then I would hope you would want to be corrected. If it is unsupported by any evidence, then I'm afraid there is nothing more to say except - you are perfectly entitled to your belief, but here we are discussing the documented history of Apollo.

(* - Well, everything except some personal moments like toileting and sleeping..)

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BTW, I invite any interested readers to try to find any examples of Mr Stoecker backing up or debating *any* of his almost uncountable views on conspiracy topics.

What you will find instead is revealing..

Anyway, I'll stick to the topic. Be back tomorrow, probably, for the next instalment..

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And why do you lump all Americans in with a few crackpots? 99 percent of the American public doesn't believe this hogwash.

99 percent of Americans aren't paranoid either.

You are right, there is no need to be paranoid cos you all got guns to protect yourselves. confused-face-smiley-emoticon.gif

Edited by freetoroam

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You are right, there is no need to be paranoid cos you all got guns to protect yourselves. confused-face-smiley-emoticon.gif

I don't want to get this too off-topic, but I have to respond to this.

(edited, sending response in PM....it's too off topic for this thread)

Edited by MedicTJ

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If we didn't land on the moon, we wouldn't know it was made of cheese!

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Yes, we did. The astraunts experienced other things as well. But, I refuse to tell you what they are. Because I know I will be ridiculed if I tell you so I'm just gonna say that they did land on the moon and that is all.

Long time McKenna, how did the music thing work out.

Ed Mitchell is not saying what you are saying he is saying.

I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--Edgar Mitchell

DR. EDGAR MITCHELL, APOLLO ASTRONAUT: Well, I can say, Larry, I have no firsthand experience but all of my experience comes from what I call the old timers that at some point in their - before they passed on, and these folks are all gone now, and because I was who I was, because I lived in the area, I grew up in the area, and because I was an astronaut, some of them wanted to get it off their chest before they passed on and I happened to be selected to hear their story.

LINK

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