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NocturnalWatcher

you can obe? prove it

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My astral travels are not like lucid dreaming at all. I do both and there is no comparison. During astral travel my spirit leaves my body and travels to many places. I visit other dimensions and planets and sometimes, but not often, communicate with people there.

My travels are meant to be a learning experience (although some are quite fun). I rarely travel with spirits of people I know here on Earth, but sometimes my sister is with me. The spirits I travel with are sometimes guides and sometimes other travellers who may or may not be from this dimension, but are 'astral travel' friends.

I don't go on adventures but I am shown things. How others live. Their architecture. Their ways. Their machines. Their history. Their senses and feelings. Sometimes glimpses of the future. My past lives.

One of my favourite things to do is to soar. Soar over towns, cities, forests, great bodies of water, and among the stars in space.

That is what I do when I astral travel (without the details as it would be too much typing).

I'm not gonna comment on your personal beliefs on the matter, but the only difference between "astral travel" and "lucid dreaming" is the method used to get there. In fact with "phasing" methods you would see that councious exit of the body is rather unneccesary after years of practicing. 100% councious in a dream, or 100% councious after leaving the body is very much the same state of counciousness. Im not gonna comment on the supernatural view you have of it, because I really don't know for sure (and neither do you), but I will say that your description of what can be experienced is accurate. Another thing I noticed while in the OBE state, is the feeling of physical sensations or emotional ones, is very intense and feels like your directly experiencing the "essence" of happiness for example, unhindered by the physical bodies/brain's interpretation of it. Kinda hard to describe but you can for sure experience tactile sensations you otherwise couldn't during normal waking counciousness.

Edited by Glorfindel

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Well I have successfully had an obe after many attempts but the farthest I've gone is my floor, I can't seem to controller myself as I can't really walk, it feels like your underwater, and most of the time I had an overwhelming fear because I actually feel 2 pairs of hands pull me out,I'm assuming its a male because the hands feel large, and it growled once when I thrust my hand forward to touch it. I don't care if you don't believe me, there is no way to prove to you it can be done, the only way to reach the truth is to stop being so negative and skepticle, and try it yourself, meditate, sleep on your back with your arms at your sides and relax, try to clear your thoughts, and if it helps listen to beats that can alter your alpha waves, these can be downloaded on the Internet, my first time was really scared and I almost cried, but with practice it can be better

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Well I have successfully had an obe after many attempts but the farthest I've gone is my floor, I can't seem to controller myself as I can't really walk, it feels like your underwater, and most of the time I had an overwhelming fear because I actually feel 2 pairs of hands pull me out,I'm assuming its a male because the hands feel large, and it growled once when I thrust my hand forward to touch it. I don't care if you don't believe me, there is no way to prove to you it can be done, the only way to reach the truth is to stop being so negative and skepticle, and try it yourself, meditate, sleep on your back with your arms at your sides and relax, try to clear your thoughts, and if it helps listen to beats that can alter your alpha waves, these can be downloaded on the Internet, my first time was really scared and I almost cried, but with practice it can be better

Like I said before, your subcouncious influences everything, if youre expecting fear, then your subcouncious is going to give you a reason to be scared, hence the creation of the hands and growling. You have the power to make anything you don't like disappear instantly while in the OBE state (at least with practice you can). As far as moving in the planes, what you are experiencing is normal. The first time I counciously exited the body, I stood in my back yard and tryed flying. I was jumping and falling back down and it was like moving through water or syrup as you described. The secret is to move with your mind, I simply thought about flying and kept the intent in my mind and, Voila! Started floating up. Even today, sometimes if I'm flying I'll briefly lose concentration and start plummeting towards the Earth. Trying to move like youre in physical reality is what causes the feeling that you're moving through something thick and makes it much more difficult. Like anything, practice makes perfect so hopefully you can take this advice and keep trying! You've already gotten past the hardest part if you've made the exit before.

Edited by Glorfindel
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Sean93 I personally do not believe OBE or Astral travel are anything at all. It could all be dreaming, period. There is no way to put OBE, Astral Travel nor dreaming into a typeset, they could all be the same and no one is going to prove it one way or another. As to why or how anyone can say that OBE is better than a dream or they astral travel to this place or that I believe it is just something that people do, talk about what sets themselves apart from others. So lying might seem a bit harsh. For those that claim they can go zipping around in the real world yet would refuse to provide any irrefutable evidence, well they are dreaming too. If it were true it would be the easiest of all supernatural abilities to prove. People like to feel special, let them.

Before anyone chops my head off remember, it is the believer that gains the benefit not the skeptic. I do not believe that these 'abilities' are any different than dreaming. How can a person describe a dream (ordinary) in a way that fully relates everything sensed in it. If it is done by someone who is very good at describing things in colorful and complex ways ANY dream could sound like a life changing event. Enjoy your dreams no matter where they come from. I have had some mighty spiffy dreams but I could not in a million years describe them in a way that would do them justice, if I could they would likely fit any decription of an OBE, Astral projection or any number of altered states but in the end it was a dream. Nothing wrong with that though.

Edited by Esoteric Toad

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Sean93 I personally do not believe OBE or Astral travel are anything at all. It could all be dreaming, period. There is no way to put OBE, Astral Travel nor dreaming into a typeset, they could all be the same and no one is going to prove it one way or another. As to why or how anyone can say that OBE is better than a dream or they astral travel to this place or that I believe it is just something that people do, talk about what sets themselves apart from others. So lying might seem a bit harsh.

In a normal dream, you are more or less uncouncious, in a lucid dream you are every bit as councious as you are in waking reality, and are aware you are dreaming and are able to manipulate the environment. I believe they do both take place in the same part of the mind (whatever that is), but a lucid dream/astral projection/OBE is very much different then your average dream, there wouldn't be methods to do it you can practice, there wouldn't be talk of "sleep paralysis" etc etc if it was just a normal dream being blown out of proportion.

For those that claim they can go zipping around in the real world yet would refuse to provide any irrefutable evidence, well they are dreaming too. If it were true it would be the easiest of all supernatural abilities to prove. People like to feel special, let them.

Actually read the thread please, the only people who have claimed that might be possible have been the skeptics ironically (or at least they implyed it by asking us to engage in this experiment).

Before anyone chops my head off remember, it is the believer that gains the benefit not the skeptic. I do not believe that these 'abilities' are any different than dreaming. How can a person describe a dream (ordinary) in a way that fully relates everything sensed in it. If it is done by someone who is very good at describing things in colorful and complex ways ANY dream could sound like a life changing event. Enjoy your dreams no matter where they come from. I have had some mighty spiffy dreams but I could not in a million years describe them in a way that would do them justice, if I could they would likely fit any decription of an OBE, Astral projection or any number of altered states but in the end it was a dream. Nothing wrong with that though.

You have not experienced anything that could be remotely considered an "OBE" unless you were completely councious and aware that you were dreaming. But hey, apprently altered states don't exist unless you've experienced them right? There's a difference between being a skeptic and a pseudo-skeptic, and I don't think many people here understand that difference. A real skeptic would actually read about the subject material, and realize how pointless continually asking for evidence of a subjective mind state is. Meanwhile the internet is full of methods and techniques to learn this, and anyone can indeed learn it. Sorry if that "chopped your head off", but its getting redundant having to explain very basic, non-paranormal based explanations to this real experience, has anyone even read my posts?

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Like I said before, your subcouncious influences everything, if youre expecting fear, then your subcouncious is going to give you a reason to be scared, hence the creation of the hands and growling. You have the power to make anything you don't like disappear instantly while in the OBE state (at least with practice you can). As far as moving in the planes, what you are experiencing is normal. The first time I counciously exited the body, I stood in my back yard and tryed flying. I was jumping and falling back down and it was like moving through water or syrup as you described. The secret is to move with your mind, I simply thought about flying and kept the intent in my mind and, Voila! Started floating up. Even today, sometimes if I'm flying I'll briefly lose concentration and start plummeting towards the Earth. Trying to move like youre in physical reality is what causes the feeling that you're moving through something thick and makes it much more difficult. Like anything, practice makes perfect so hopefully you can take this advice and keep trying! You've already gotten past the hardest part if you've made the exit before.

thanks, your explanation about the growling and hands really helped, I'll try not to give in to fear because right now this is my biggest obstacle. I have trouble controlling myself when I'm out so ill try what you said and think about walking normally and not just float awkwardly around my floor. One thing bothers me tho, one particular night I woke up paralyzed and tried to clench my hands because I was in no mood to do an obe, so then I felt a body grab my foot and scratch it, I got up very angry that my precious sleep was disturbed and said" you better apologize cause that hurt! " I was wide awake and sitting up and I felt a hand gently rub my foot as if to say I'm sorry. I swear I was not dreaming, I remember thinking, that's right, and I Went back to sleep, I also felt a hand caressing my leg and hair, is this just my imagination?? It's so real and I know how crazy I sound right now. I even had a vivid dream that I got out of my body and I was playing tug of war over my sheets with something invisible. I have been told it might be an astral entity but I'm confused,enyway I'm not going to let this get in the way of my obe experiences. I'll have to work on getting over my fear, I'm am having progress already since I had the guts to yell at it to apologize

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I'm not gonna comment on your personal beliefs on the matter, but the only difference between "astral travel" and "lucid dreaming" is the method used to get there. In fact with "phasing" methods you would see that councious exit of the body is rather unneccesary after years of practicing. 100% councious in a dream, or 100% councious after leaving the body is very much the same state of counciousness. Im not gonna comment on the supernatural view you have of it, because I really don't know for sure (and neither do you), but I will say that your description of what can be experienced is accurate. Another thing I noticed while in the OBE state, is the feeling of physical sensations or emotional ones, is very intense and feels like your directly experiencing the "essence" of happiness for example, unhindered by the physical bodies/brain's interpretation of it. Kinda hard to describe but you can for sure experience tactile sensations you otherwise couldn't during normal waking counciousness.

I know what you mean about "phasing". That is how I've always astral travelled, even as a child. I don't remember any practicing. When it's time to travel... Poof...I am already there! As quick as a thought. I would really like to experience what many others do when they can see their limbs leaving their bodies, then floating upwards. But, I have often felt myself returning to by body. Sometimes with such force that it literally knocks the wind out of me. No pain though, but that is when I always feel the vibrations. My humorous thought about this, is that it's as though my spirit waits till the very last second before I have to get up to go to work, then rushes home!

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To the OP.

I suggest talking with a few people here that will give you step by step instructions on how to attempt this. Go at it honestly, and not with a negative attitude. Do not just give it a few tries, really put time into it. See what happens, and learn about what it may or may not be.

I did just that, but with my rotating schedule, I could not give it a true chance. I can say, I had things happen that normally do not when I lay down in bed. I plan on trying it if and when I get a stable sleep pattern going.

And I am known as one of the biggest " skeptics " here.

Difference with me, I am willing to attempt things for myself, and draw conclusions from true experiences.

" OBE's " in my opinion are " real " in the sense that something is happening to the people claiming it. ( most are out for attention, but not all ) It could be a hypnotic state, and in the mind. I can only say, I was at the least, having success at a sort of hypnotic state, and it was relaxing.

Our minds can, and will do amazing things, give some of them a shot before you just go off on people.

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No

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ive already tried to have an obe i worked at it fr a couple weeks. i was an experienced lucid dreamer at the time and was really hoping there was more to the story than a bunch of online fairytales but there isnt.

i think some people may be mistaking lucid dreams as ap

i have tried the techniques from online myself and besides a few sensations nothing happens.

i even managed to fall asleep while conscious, felt my body paralyze and the heavy pressure on the chest but you do not split from your body.

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we have the people who say ap is nothing more than a dream and that the places they visit are only a representation of what the mind thinks would be there, that sunds more plausable than the people who claim to fly around the world travel to other dimensions and talk with the spirit guide.

are these people delusional ? i think so. they never talk about what the spirit guide looks likhow he communicates how u know its there etc ... every description is vague at best and you would think those who have just experienced somethibg that profound would want to explain themselves a little better about what they are seeing, but they never do.

i would be writing about evetything down to the smallest detail in order to sound credible and get the information out.

i think the one poster got it right when he said asking for proof is pointless, those who say they can ap always have an excse as to why they cant prove it or why they dont need to.

ill continue to write off ap as fantasy story telling until im given a reason to think otherwise

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Posted (edited)

I think these kinds experiences, where our consciousness seems to expand so that it spills outside of our bodies, are a pretty common human experience. What varies, and maybe where the controversy lays, are explanations and understandings of the how and why of it. FYI, years ago I read a book about a clinical study of Swami Rama that was conducted over a number of months by the Menninger Institute. If I'm remembering correctly, the swami demonstrated the ability to control the bodies autonomous systems, could control his heart beat, could make his blood stop flowing from a wound, could close the wound and heal the skin, etc. Apparently the swami was able to do a lot of things that current scientific knowledge tells us is impossible.

There is also a book about the same kind of study conducted by the Memminger Institute with a Native American holy man that reached pretty much the same conclusions; I don't remember the name of the holy man, however. Rolling Thunder, maybe. Anyhoo, if it's possible to find a copy of either of these books, they're worth reading, simply because they introduce the possibility that consciousness may play a far greater role in our lives than many people are willing to consider, and CAN extend outside our bodies. It's always good to remember that our unique perceptions of reality may not reflect what actually is, and that the world/reality is not limited to only that which we, as individuals, have experienced.

Edited by Beany

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Posted (edited)

ive already tried to have an obe i worked at it fr a couple weeks.

Look out, he's a veteran.

Edited by _Only
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we have the people who say ap is nothing more than a dream and that the places they visit are only a representation of what the mind thinks would be there, that sunds more plausable than the people who claim to fly around the world travel to other dimensions and talk with the spirit guide.

are these people delusional ? i think so. they never talk about what the spirit guide looks likhow he communicates how u know its there etc ... every description is vague at best and you would think those who have just experienced somethibg that profound would want to explain themselves a little better about what they are seeing, but they never do.

i would be writing about evetything down to the smallest detail in order to sound credible and get the information out.

i think the one poster got it right when he said asking for proof is pointless, those who say they can ap always have an excse as to why they cant prove it or why they dont need to.

ill continue to write off ap as fantasy story telling until im given a reason to think otherwise

I've always found OBE to be a fascinating subject. Here's an interesting article about several OBE experiments done in controlled environments:

http://cref.tripod.com/article_oberesearch.htm

I wish you best of luck in your quest! :)

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Posted (edited)

I put this in the wrong section.

Supposed to be dreams ans consciousness

Oh and if they don't want to prove it they are obviously lying to

To "prove" OBEs is not trivial. I think a good analogy to OBEs would be radio stations where each station represents a "reality" that we can tune into. Stations coexist but we can only tune in to one at a time with the exception of the static that happens between stations, in which reception is sketchy at best. Anyone who has had an OBE and explored his/her own room will notice that it's not quite the same -- some things are the same but you might notice objects that aren't really there. It's a combination of both realities, i.e. the "static" between the "stations". From this interpretation you might argue that you might never be able to find the proof you're looking for, and if you somehow did, it wouldn't necessarily be repeatable. But it would only make sense that we wouldn't find proof because afterall OBEs might occur in an entirely different "station" not connected to our physical reality. And when it boils down to it, does the proof even matter? A profound experience that offers learning and growth is still meaningful even if it were fake. Suppose you woke up tomorrow to realize that everything you've known to be "real" turned out to be a virtual reality. Would it matter? You experience and learn new things everyday. Is this not enough to make it worth experiencing?

Edited by all16universes

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To "prove" OBEs is not trivial. I think a good analogy to OBEs would be radio stations where each station represents a "reality" that we can tune into. Stations coexist but we can only tune in to one at a time with the exception of the static that happens between stations, in which reception is sketchy at best. Anyone who has had an OBE and explored his/her own room will notice that it's not quite the same -- some things are the same but you might notice objects that aren't really there. It's a combination of both realities, i.e. the "static" between the "stations". From this interpretation you might argue that you might never be able to find the proof you're looking for, and if you somehow did, it wouldn't necessarily be repeatable. But it would only make sense that we wouldn't find proof because afterall OBEs might occur in an entirely different "station" not connected to our physical reality. And when it boils down to it, does the proof even matter? A profound experience that offers learning and growth is still meaningful even if it were fake. Suppose you woke up tomorrow to realize that everything you've known to be "real" turned out to be a virtual reality. Would it matter? You experience and learn new things everyday. Is this not enough to make it worth experiencing?

I've experienced something similar to what you are talking about in a different state, but instead of seeing odd things that aren't there normally, I saw everything as it normally sits in my room, but it all had intense personal meaning that it doesn't usually have. It's hard to explain because I don't even remember the personal meaning all of the mundane objects had; I just remember the feeling of intense awe at the experience. To say it a simpler and better way: I saw everything I see as normal, but in a completely different light. I wish I could see things in this way again sometime.

Unfortunately, I can't explain what I saw because I can't remember. The OP would say I'm full of it and obviously lying due to this, and that's a shame.

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Sorry but I don't know that there could ever be a way to prove or disprove something like obe. I just wonder that if you were to visit a loved one during an obe would they be able to see you maybe in some sort of spirit form if they were awake during that time.

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Best way to prove it would be to walk or float over to someone's house while they are in the potty.

Very effective.

I'd love to be able to do it. I meditate, but that's about it.

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Lucid dream =/= OBE

OBE =/= real

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Posted (edited)

Lucid dream =/= OBE

Do you know this from experience?

I should correct you, Lucid dream = OBE (but with totally different methods used to get into the same mind state.)

OBE = real experience (not necessarily "real" though)

Thanks, your comment contributed invaluable information to the thread.

Edited by Glorfindel
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Posted (edited)

Do you know this from experience?

I should correct you, Lucid dream = OBE (but with totally different methods used to get into the same mind state.)

OBE = real experience (not necessarily "real" though)

Thanks, your comment contributed invaluable information to the thread.

A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

Edit: And yes I know it from experience. I have lucid dreams very often where there's all kinds of crazy stuff happening. The dreams reflect whatever has been part of my life whether recently or further back. People I've seen, movies/games/news or whatever media I've been exposed to, so on and so forth.

I'm aware I'm dreaming. And I know it's in my head - not some parallel universe or ethereal realm.

Edit 2: Forget the above :w00t: - please explain to me how a lucid dream is an OBE?

Edited by Timonthy

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Posted (edited)

A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

You keep saying that with such confidence, but how? Do you have out of body experiences?

You also say you have lucid dreams. Lucid, as in you know you are dreaming, or lucid, as in you make choices that affect your dream? If the latter, have you ever chosen to leave your body?

And the ethereal realm bit is moot, because that's just personal interpretation and doesn't matter in deciding if something is 'real' or not. The mind is the only thing we know is real, yet some use the term 'only in my mind' with such disdain.

edit: I'll shoot at answering your last question there. If you leave your body in a lucid dream, it becomes an out of body experience.

Edited by _Only
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I have tried for years on and off to have an OBE and never managed it, tried all sorts of ways, relaxation etc. Closest i ever get is waking up with my body tense, cramps after a feeling of drifting, floating almost like weight-less-ness. Thats all i can really tell you cant explaine it! But i havnt done it.... Yet!

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A lucid dream is just a regular dream in which you are aware that you're dreaming.

A lucid dream is in your mind.

A lucid dream is not an OBE. It is a regular and normal occurance. People seem to be very confused and mixing definitions all over this thread.

Edit: And yes I know it from experience. I have lucid dreams very often where there's all kinds of crazy stuff happening. The dreams reflect whatever has been part of my life whether recently or further back. People I've seen, movies/games/news or whatever media I've been exposed to, so on and so forth.

I'm aware I'm dreaming. And I know it's in my head - not some parallel universe or ethereal realm.

Edit 2: Forget the above :w00t: - please explain to me how a lucid dream is an OBE?

First off, a lucid dream is not a normal occurence for most people, it is certainly hard to achieve for most people. A lucid dream is not the same as an intense dream. You say all kinds of stuff is happening and reflecting part of your life sounds like a non-lucid but vivid dream. That could still be a lucid dream also, but during a lucid dream you have the option to ignore the normal dream imagery and create your own environment and actions.

If you would read the thread, you would see that I already did explain it. There are some differences but they are ultimately the same state of mind. An OBE usually occurs from sleep paralysis or the "trance" state as some people call it (usually after theyre used to SP and no longer find the state frightening or intense). In an OBE you literally feel as though you have left the body, and can stand in your bedroom and watch yourself sleep. However, as you leave your room for example, you might start noticing small inconsistencies, furniture might be in the wrong place, pictures on the walls might be different. As you continue these inconsistencies will add up until you are basically in a dream environment, but still very much councious. Now a lucid dream happens after falling asleep, and becoming awake mid-way through a dream (totally different methods used to induce this though). So yes, they are pretty much the same thing, but with different techniques used to reach that mind state.

In a lucid dream or OBE, you are just as councious and awake as you are when you are actually awake in the physical world. The fact that you describe your lucid dreaming experiences the same way someone would describe a normal vivid dream makes me doubt you've actually experienced a lucid dream. And don't worry about convincing me its fake, I generally think this all takes place in the mind (though Im open to the possibility that there could be "reality" to the experience), but nonetheless, that is irrelevant to the experience itself, which is certainly achievable.

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You keep saying that with such confidence, but how? Do you have out of body experiences?

You also say you have lucid dreams. Lucid, as in you know you are dreaming, or lucid, as in you make choices that affect your dream? If the latter, have you ever chosen to leave your body?

And the ethereal realm bit is moot, because that's just personal interpretation and doesn't matter in deciding if something is 'real' or not. The mind is the only thing we know is real, yet some use the term 'only in my mind' with such disdain.

edit: I'll shoot at answering your last question there. If you leave your body in a lucid dream, it becomes an out of body experience.

I have actually had a lucid dream, and then midway im suddenly laying in my bed in sleep paralysis wit no break in counciousness, and then went on to have an "OBE". I have enough experience with both (though obviously, you'll just have to take my word for it :blush: ) to know that they are instrinsically related to each other.

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