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and then

The Coming Middle East War

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http://www.hoover.org/publications/defining-ideas/article/139881

Thorough examination of causes for the coming conflict over this region. I think it's a fair piece. Less about the west and more about the Sunni Shia divide.

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No way is there going to be a war in The Meddle east. Its just hyperbole to keep the masses entertained.

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Has there ever been real peace in the Middle East?

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Has there ever been real peace in the Middle East?

There was that one time between rome and the crusades........Oh wait, that was the rise of islam so..........No, never.
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The middel east has been fighting forever. Sect against Sect. If and ownly if the many sects and tribes could put away there differences and bands together. Then a war would be possible. But we all know that will never happen!!!

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The difference today is the global connectedness. One region can set the whole place alight. And a general war in the M.E. isn't a matter of if, but when, IMO. Doesn't even matter who's to blame either. It will happen because of the level of unrelenting hatred there and the easy availability of weapons and hands to hold them. Mix in the oil and voila' a great big regional blood bath. Can anyone seriously imagine these groups coming together in peace? The best thing to hope for is a lack of nukes being used.

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They have been killing each other for centuries and they will go on doing the same for centuries more. :gun:

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Eh, the war in the Middle East started back during the Guld War. And with the sanctions and random bombings it continued right through to 2001, on to today.

Forget any sort of civil war.

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When religion rules a country and that country has several different religions there is going to be unhappy people that will want war.

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Eh, the war in the Middle East started back during the Guld War. And with the sanctions and random bombings it continued right through to 2001, on to today.

Forget any sort of civil war.

So, Ex, we have no worries where Sunni and Shia are concerned? Really? Their conflict started a long time before the west ever became involved.

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So, Ex, we have no worries where Sunni and Shia are concerned? Really? Their conflict started a long time before the west ever became involved.

We definitely have no worries. The Arabs, though...

Yes there may at some point in the future be another Sunni - Shia war. My point was that the region has been in a constant state of war for decades, so to suggest a 'coming' war is disingenuous. If anything, a civil war as you mention would be a sub-war. And besides, it the leaders of these countries that want religious war, not the average Arab or Mulsim. The people of Iran and Saudi largely hold no hatred for each other (in fact, read some polls: the average Saudi is in favour of Iran gaining a nuclear weapon); it is the leaders in a power struggle.

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We definitely have no worries. The Arabs, though...

Yes there may at some point in the future be another Sunni - Shia war. My point was that the region has been in a constant state of war for decades, so to suggest a 'coming' war is disingenuous. If anything, a civil war as you mention would be a sub-war. And besides, it the leaders of these countries that want religious war, not the average Arab or Mulsim. The people of Iran and Saudi largely hold no hatred for each other (in fact, read some polls: the average Saudi is in favour of Iran gaining a nuclear weapon); it is the leaders in a power struggle.

Can you cite that poll? I believe you, I'd just like to see how this seeming oddity is explained. Unless it was taken in the Shia region I can't imagine what those Saudis would be thinking. I think the article was clear that a subtext is playing out in the struggle between the west and Islam and that the Sunni Shia divide figures heavily in this. In fact, it sometimes appears that the conflict with the west and Israel is just used as cover or motivation for that Sunni/Shia conflict.

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Can you cite that poll? I believe you, I'd just like to see how this seeming oddity is explained. Unless it was taken in the Shia region I can't imagine what those Saudis would be thinking. I think the article was clear that a subtext is playing out in the struggle between the west and Islam and that the Sunni Shia divide figures heavily in this. In fact, it sometimes appears that the conflict with the west and Israel is just used as cover or motivation for that Sunni/Shia conflict.

You can read many of the past polls in detail here (Just the link for 2011): http://www.brookings...opinion-telhami

Iran suffered mixed results. More people in 2011 identify Iran as one of the two biggest threats they face than ever before (18%), and, in contrast with 2010, a plurality (35%) of those polled now believe that if Iran acquires weapons of mass destruction it would be negative for the Middle East. On the other hand, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, remains relatively popular, and most (64%) Arabs still feel that Iran has the right to its nuclear program and should not be pressured by the international community to halt it.

2010: http://www.brookings...on-poll-telhami

On Iran's potential nuclear weapons status, results show another dramatic shift in public opinion. While the results vary from country to country, the weighted average across the six countries is telling: in 2009, only 29% of those polled said that Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons would be "positive" for the Middle East; in 2010, 57% of those polled indicate that such an outcome would be "positive" for the Middle East.

You can research the exact countries yourself in detail (information provided in the links). I don't have time at the moment.

Sorry, just realised that Saudi isn't a part of that poll. But you can find others if you have the time. The point is that the divide amongst ordinary civilians isn't as extreme as many believe.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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A War in the middle east? there has always been war in the middle east and religion plays a big role,especially the jews who live on stolen land.So among these groups who have diffferent agenda's you will have disagreements and fights which lead to death and as long as the US keeps butting in everybody's business and touting democracy and forcing democracy on countries who don't want western culture there will be unrest.Personally leave them the hell alone why is america worried about how somebody else is running there country,Sadam a good example.Sadam may have mass genocided his people at some point but so did America with it's so called labeling people minorities with brutal slavery and made up Jim Crow laws. America is getting close to war on a whole new front we are about to see firsthand the collapse of the dollar. So don't be so comfy thinking that this country will always be so safe from the world America's kharma is in route. The greedy need to starve to know the struggle.

Edited by slaughtr

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A War in the middle east? there has always been war in the middle east and religion plays a big role,especially the jews who live on stolen land.So among these groups who have diffferent agenda's you will have disagreements and fights which lead to death and as long as the US keeps butting in everybody's business and touting democracy and forcing democracy on countries who don't want western culture there will be unrest.Personally leave them the hell alone why is america worried about how somebody else is running there country,Sadam a good example.Sadam may have mass genocided his people at some point but so did America with it's so called labeling people minorities with brutal slavery and made up Jim Crow laws. America is getting close to war on a whole new front we are about to see firsthand the collapse of the dollar. So don't be so comfy thinking that this country will always be so safe from the world America's kharma is in route. The greedy need to starve to know the struggle.

So, short version is Israel is a thief and the US a busybody? *sigh* welcome to UM.....
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Shia, Sunni, They both hate Israel.

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With significant doctrinal differences(not core, but expanded/interpreted) amongst the various Muslim sects, I can envision no peace, ever.

And the continual influx of weaponry makes the situation even more volatile. Suicide bombings don't help peace either.

A very sad situation to be sure.

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With significant doctrinal differences(not core, but expanded/interpreted) amongst the various Muslim sects, I can envision no peace, ever.

And the continual influx of weaponry makes the situation even more volatile. Suicide bombings don't help peace either.

A very sad situation to be sure.

It IS sad. And it is frustrating beyond belief. Say what they will about Christian values, those who were raised on them do not generally foster and nurture such levels of hatred - at least not as a culture. The religion of Islam itself seems to place a premium on dissension, anger and strife. That is my opinion and I stand by it but I do not state it to insult anyone here who is Muslim. I just don't understand the religion and it is frustrating to watch things like those happening in Syria, Iraq and Egypt - to name a few - and try to grasp why two different sects would be so brutal to one another. As a Baptist I will befriend a Catholic though I am dead set against Catholic doctrine. I believe their teaching to be in error at points but the idea of harming one of them even by being intentionally rude, would never occur to me. The level of emotion is of a type and magnitude I cannot even imagine. I am slowly beginning to grasp that much more than just religious issues are at play here. But religion is what cements the power of those who foment trouble. I honestly believe it is supernatural and is playing out according to some plan of the Creator. That troubles me some. Edited by and then
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People need to accept that religion is only a matter of opinion, and that multiple religions can co-exist quite peacefully in the same society. It has happened before in history and it can happen again. But the clerics are the ones who have to offer an olive branch to the opposing sect, no amount of political intervention can stop their conflict for them. It is a sectional dispute that has killed thousands for no good reason.

Hopefully it will stay contained, but with a whole bunch of Islamic republics emerging in the middle east, it could devolve into a civil war in the next few decades.

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Well said.

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Michelle Bachmann? Seriously, AsteroidX? She's emblematic of the media kool aid serving the government of Israel our blood, moral authority, global credibility and economic power on a silver platter. Not to mention she's completely nuts. I accept no religious statism of one nasty flavor (Zionism) anymore than I accept any other religious statism of another nasty flavor (Sharia). My advice: Read the Establishment Clause and defend the Constitution; don't parrot this Zionist nonsense and bankrupt this country. Religions are no groups worth dividing ourselves and setting policy over. They're groups worth not.

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It IS sad. And it is frustrating beyond belief. Say what they will about Christian values, those who were raised on them do not generally foster and nurture such levels of hatred - at least not as a culture. The religion of Islam itself seems to place a premium on dissension, anger and strife. That is my opinion and I stand by it but I do not state it to insult anyone here who is Muslim. I just don't understand the religion and it is frustrating to watch things like those happening in Syria, Iraq and Egypt - to name a few - and try to grasp why two different sects would be so brutal to one another. As a Baptist I will befriend a Catholic though I am dead set against Catholic doctrine. I believe their teaching to be in error at points but the idea of harming one of them even by being intentionally rude, would never occur to me. The level of emotion is of a type and magnitude I cannot even imagine. I am slowly beginning to grasp that much more than just religious issues are at play here. But religion is what cements the power of those who foment trouble. I honestly believe it is supernatural and is playing out according to some plan of the Creator. That troubles me some.

The answer to your question: Is Collectivism. Free your mind bro. America nor your beloved Israel have been invaded by foreigners. When foreigners invade your land, occupy it, you trust nobody and you blame others. When we occupy cultural-religious countries we experience religious extremities as a result. In America it would be different but the same effect regardless of the collective blame.

Edited by acidhead

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Yes but we are not war with the Zionists. We are in war with Sharia via the proxy Taliban. Letting them set up shop in our house is an idiots version of the Constitution which says Christian is the religion of the Land and others are free to be here and practice. That does not give them cart blanche to establish Sharia LAW here. And dont try and convince me they dont do just that my Muslim Brotherhood hairs will stand up. If you were to ask me Id say were getting pimped out by the pint of blood lost overseas.

And btw I could care less what they do in the Middle East. Thats there land.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/10/31/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-says-new-constitution-must-be-based-on-islamic-shariah/

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Yes but we are not war with the Zionists. We are in war with Sharia via the proxy Taliban. Letting them set up shop in our house is an idiots version of the Constitution which says Christian is the religion of the Land and others are free to be here and practice. That does not give them cart blanche to establish Sharia LAW here. And dont try and convince me they dont do just that my Muslim Brotherhood hairs will stand up. If you were to ask me Id say were getting pimped out by the pint of blood lost overseas.

And btw I could care less what they do in the Middle East. Thats there land.

http://www.foxnews.c...slamic-shariah/

What are you talking about? We're bombing for Islam, we're subsidizing the worst terrorist states on the planet, such as Pakistan, the Taliban in Afghanistan, and Al Qaeda in Libya. Sharia law is impossible here; the idea of religious rule in the US is the most laughable impossibility I've ever heard. You're scared of hobgoblins under your bed thanks to Fox News Channel garbage.

You've drunk the kool aid. Spit it out.

http://youtu.be/EkIAYqacoq4

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